10 Years of NAFTA

[maplesyrup]

Article

It is obvious now that these trade agreements with the US have failed Canada.

Canadians have lost jobs, our sovereignty has been threatened and eroded, and our social programs have been placed in jeopardy.

When are going to get a government to address these issues, eh?

[maplesyrup]

WTO rules for EU in US trade row

Controversial rule

The Byrd Amendment, introduced in 2000, changed the way that anti-dumping fines were levied by US Customs authorities.

Under the amendment, firms which sell below cost price in the US can be fined and the money given to the US companies who made the complaint in the first place.

The EU, Japan, Canada, Brazil, India, Mexico, Chile and South Korea have long argued that Byrd Amendment payments to US ball bearing, steel, candle, pasta, seafood and other companies constituted an illegal subsidy.

The WTO ruled the Byrd Amendment illegal in 2002.

Under the WTO ruling, the EU and the other countries can introduce measures which penalise the US for up to 72% of the monies raised and distributed through the controversial Byrd amendment.

The EU's hope is that the threat of penalties may force the US to repeal the Byrd legislation. It may also be able to use the WTO ruling as a bartering tool to obtain concessions in other trade negotiations.

Another example of the discredited US and how they are constantly disobeying the trade agreements which they sign on to with no intention of following.

This is an excellent example of why these agreements are not worth the paper they are written on.

[Big Blue Machine]

Our soverignty is not at risk, and our social programs aren't in jeporady. That's all socialist myth.

No future government will cancel the deal ever.

[Slavik44]

Our soverignty is not at risk, and our social programs aren't in jeporady. That's all socialist myth.

No future government will cancel the deal ever.

and i belvie that is a conservative myth

[idealisttotheend]

No future government will cancel the deal ever

You might be right regarding a Canadian government but don't be so sure about an American government. They're gonna have to pay off that debt sometime or they'll be a wholly owned subsidarary of China and Japan who are buying up the American debt. This will cause even more anti-trade pressure over there and NAFTA only got fast track authority by a 10-10 vote to start with.

[caesar]

I think it is time we did get out of the so called free trade agreement; the American government does not abide by the rules and re writes them to suit themselves.

America was a much nicer neighbour before Free Trade and before they became the sole super power. Now they want to force American type democracy on foreign countries while American citizens are having their democratic rights and freedoms reduced.

[Guest eureka]

It is sad really, that so many can still not see how we have been shafted. Rules do not matter when they are not in favour of the biggest American interests: not that there were many rules in the agreement that did not favour the US from the beginning.

Softwwod lumber is a good case in point though not the only one. The $3 billion or so collected from Canadian producers because of that Byrd amendment will, apparently, go to American producers even though the American action has been ruled illegal - and, they will keep collectin for as long as they can delay Canadian claims.

And I thought that it was illegal everywhere to keep the proceeds of crime.

[JWayne625]

I agree both our sovereignty and our social programs are in jeopardy. Let's remember one thing these trade agreements are the result of the agenda lobbied for by corporate America, and in Canada it is our own corporate lobby groups that are pressuring our politicians to sign on the dotted line, because in many cases they are simply subsiduaries of American corporations.

What do you mean our sovereignty and social programs are not in jeopardy, when these agreements tie the hands of our elected officials from being able to pass legislation to protect our environment, labour standards, social programs or anything else? These agreements allow these multinational corporations the right to sue our government's if they pass legislation that infringes on their ability to maximize their profits. They can sue for loss of profits, and these agreements stipulate that they have that right. If these Free-Trade Agreements are truly meant to bestow benefits on ordinary Canadian's and American's why is it that the corporte sector is sitting at the negotiating table whenever they hold these WTO, IMF and G-8 conferences, while at the same time excluding anyone who speaks out against these types of agreements. If they are truly for the benefit of the people then ordinary people should also be sitting at the negotaiting table when these agreements are being formulated. We all know that will never happen, and we all know why it will never happen, because these agreements are not about what is good for ordinary people they are all about what is good for corporations.

I watched an episode of Counterpoint on which a representative from the corporate sector stated that corporations should be under no obligation to contribute to the funding of social programs. When she was asked how she proposed they be paid for, her repeated response was to say, get it from the people. Obviously these corporations put themselves above the people and think that they should be somehow exempt from paying their fair share of the costs to fund this social safety net. Of course when you are paid obscene salaries and bonuses it is quite easy to feel that you are somehow extra special, and that is how these corporate bums view themselves. They are however always quick to stick out their hands for taxpayers money when they are looking at locating a call centre operation. Factories and such they locate in third world countries where they can exploit the workforce. I read an article that stated that an unfettered free-market system is not sustainable, and I believe that someday real soon the whole thing is going to come crashing down, and we will be in another scenario like 1929. Let's remember people it wasn't the poor people who were jumping from skyscrapers when the market crashed in 1929, it was those who thought themselves to be top-of-the-heap. Their time is coming again, as history has a habit of repeating itself. Stupid people never learn!

[Guest eureka]

I thought I had posted in another thread the position of the negotiators.

Sylvia Ostry, the Canadian Chief negotiator, has admitted, now that she is no longer a servant of the Government, that her job was to give the Americans what they wanted.

The American negotiator, named Yuell ( or something like that -I forget exactly) wrote in a memorandum to his bosses in Washington that they had got everything they wanted and that the Canadian economy would be integrated into the American within twenty years.

[August1991]

I watched an episode of Counterpoint on which a representative from the corporate sector stated that corporations should be under no obligation to contribute to the funding of social programs. When she was asked how she proposed they be paid for, her repeated response was to say, get it from the people.

Wayne, you speak of "Corporations" as if they were extra-terrestrial beings. To my knowledge, corporations are composed entirely of people. There are managers, shareholders and employees who together form a corporation.

We can't tax a corporation. We must tax people.

I'll also add that all relations with the people in a corporation are voluntary. Nobody forces anybody to buy a Big Mac, Nike shoes or Microsoft Windows. Nobody is forced to buy shares in these firms. Nobody is forced to work for them.

As to free trade, the Internet is a wonderful invention that makes it easier to communicate. Why would anyone want to deliberately impose an artifical barrier between two people - making it difficult for the two to deal with one another?

The posters to this thread seem to want to do exactly that. They want to make it difficult for Canadians and Americans to deal with one another. Why?

[caesar]

Wayne, you speak of "Corporations" as if they were extra-terrestrial beings. To my knowledge, corporations are composed entirely of people. There are managers, shareholders and employees who together form a corporation.

We can't tax a corporation. We must tax people.

What are you talking about????? Corporations are large companies owned by individuals. shareholders, etc. The employees are usually just that; employees. OPf course we can and do tax corporations.

As for free trade; dump it. We had much better trade relationships with American people and companies before joining. The USA doesn't abide by the rules; it just keeps changing them to make them more one sided

[August1991]

Corporations are large companies owned by individuals. shareholders, etc. The employees are usually just that; employees.

They are all people, right? They all voluntarily work together collectively in this thing called a corporation. If you do not want to deal with a corporation, don't. Nobody will force you.

OPf course we can and do tax corporations.

The burden of all taxes must fall on a person. And you might be surprised to learn who pays corporate taxes.

As for free trade; dump it. We had much better trade relationships with American people and companies before joining. The USA doesn't abide by the rules; it just keeps changing them to make them more one sided

That is false. Our trade with the US has grown faster in the past 15 years than our trade with other countries, and indeed trade with ourselves. The FTA have reduced artificial barriers between people in the two countries. This has been to the benefit of individual Canadians and individual Americans.

If you want to be anti-American and not deal with them, then that is your choice. But I don't see why you should hinder me if I choose to deal with an American.

[caesar]

We are better to trade between ourselves. Why trade with a country that doesn't respect the rules. Our trade has grown because American companies are picking off all our Canadian companies here in Canada. It is too one sided and has been getting worse with trade disputes. whenever we can oproduce something better and cheaper than the USA they scream dumping. If they don't like NAFTA rules they go to an American court and make new rules to suit them. It is BS.

If you want to eat and have a place to hang your hat; you may well have to deal with corporations.

The burder of taxes do not fall on a person; Corporations pay taxes on profits from underpayed employees