Most Israeli Jews would support apartheid regime in Israel

[Rue]

3. Israel controls the electromagnetic spectrum and thereby limits the efficiency and profitability of the Palestinian cellular companies and the Palestinian high-tech industry.

Israel does not control it. No one can. Its public domain. What Israel does is monitor Palestinian cell phone traffic looking for evidence of incoming terrorist attacks.

4. Israel forbids Gaza fishermen to sail further than three nautical miles, severely limiting their prospects.

Israel has a naval blackade that has impacted on Gaza fishers of course. If Hamas was not in a declared state of war with Israel there would be no need to intercept any ships to look for weapons/

5. Israel conducts unfair competition with Palestinian products: subsidized water for Israeli farmers, including those in the settlements, compared to a minimal allocation of drinking water to the Palestinians. When drinking water in Hebron and Bethlehem is supplied to homes once a month, it’s no wonder that the vegetable fields are parched. ‏(“Do you know how much a kilo of tomatoes costs? Eight shekels,” demonstrators in Hebron told me, as though they were talking about meat. “Do you know that we’ve stopped growing cauliflower?” said a farmer in Halhoul, angrily noting the Israeli cauliflower in the stall.‏)

Israel and Palestinians also compete with Jordanians. The lack of an free trade zone between Israel, Palestine and Jordan is as a result of Mr. Abbas refusing to recognize Israel as a Jewish state and stating he will only recognize Israel as a state if it agrees to take back in any Arab referring to himself as a Palestinian thereby disbanding it as a Jewish state and turning it into a Muslim majority population state.

6. Due to the Israeli refusal to link up Palestinian communities in Area C ‏(the 61 percent of the West Bank which the Oslo Accords placed under full Israeli control‏), tens of thousands of people have to purchase water from tankers all year long. In the summer hundreds of thousands whose faucets have dried up have to buy water from tankers. The transportation increases the price of water to an average of eight times and more what their “neighbors,” the settlers, pay. With that money, how many enrichment classes in English and math could those families finance for their children? How many young men and women could they send to study at the university?

The severe shortage of water existed prior to Israeli occupation and was persistent when Jordan occupied the West Bank. The actual fact is there is severe water shortage in Egypt, Syria, Gaza. Lebanon, Jordan, as well as Israel and the West Bank. This is a reality in all of the Middle East but of course in “Bud’s” world water shortage was invented by Israeli Jews.

The huge population growth of Palestinians (contrary to “Bud’s earlier allegations Israel commits genocide against Palestinians) exasperates the water shortage as has increased use of water by Israeli settlers on the West Bank.

7. Israel forces the Palestinians to travel on twisting byways, from one enclave to another or from the city to the villages and towns in the district. …

The same is faced by Israeli settlers. Everyone is forced to deal with this. The situation is unfortunate and a direct result negatively impacting on all people on the West Bank precisely because if there was no terrorism such a state of byways and security checks would not be needed.

[dre]

Uh...the Arabs started it.

A more accurate analysis would be that BOTH sides chose to pursue their own interests in a way that resulted in the escalation in hostilities that lead to the war.

I know you'd have preferred the Israelis not protected themselves

Israel did a lot more during the lead up to the war than protect itself. Your description of this as a situation with one aggressive and one defensive party is pure fantasty... something you believe simply because you find it politically convenient and not something supported the chronology of events that really took place.

[DogOnPorch]

A more accurate analysis would be that BOTH sides chose to pursue their own interests in a way that resulted in the escalation in hostilities that lead to the war.

Israel did a lot more during the lead up to the war than protect itself. Your description of this as a situation with one aggressive and one defensive party is pure fantasty... something you believe simply because you find it politically convenient and not something supported the chronology of events that really took place.

Tell you what, you stick to the Hamas version of events, I'll stick to history's. Carry-on.

[GostHacked]

Hamas controls Gaza. Get over it.

Israel controls Gaza, get WITH it.

[DogOnPorch]

Israel controls Gaza, get WITH it.

GH, Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005. During the US Civil War, the North blockaded all of the ports in Dixie. The Confederacy was not under the control of the Union.

[dre]

Tell you what, you stick to the Hamas version of events, I'll stick to history's. Carry-on.

Now youre just blabbering. The history of events that I described for you is uncontraversial and nobody on earth on either side of the conflict besides you disputes it. Which is why of course you made no real attempt to dispute the timeline I presented at all. You can pretend that something else happened if you want to but its pure fantasty.

[DogOnPorch]

Now youre just blabbering. The history of events that I described for you is uncontraversial and nobody on earth on either side of the conflict besides you disputes it. Which is why of course you made no real attempt to dispute the timeline I presented at all. You can pretend that something else happened if you want to but its pure fantasty.

You obviously have your version of history that you're going to stick with. So please do. It's not going to alter my view of the situation nor the historical facts involving Soviet involvement with the conflict. Plus, it won't influence the situation on the ground one iota either way if you don't finally come around to reality...or if I go crazy and start believing your Newspeak history.

Edited October 29, 2012 by DogOnPorch

[dre]

You obviously have your version of history that you're going to stick with. So please do. It's not going to alter my view of the situation nor the historical facts involving Soviet involvement with the conflict. Plus, it won't influence the situation on the ground one iota either way if you don't finally come around to reality or if I go crazy and start believing your Newspeak history.

More gibberish. My "version of history" is not disputed by anyone but you. Its a completely uncontraversial account of events as they actually unfolded which of course why you were unable to dispute a single thing I said. If I claimed something happened, that in fact did not it would have been really easy for you to catch me out on that, but you cant... and you didnt... You simply choose to start "counting" on an arbitrary date, and pretend that the war started with various defense pacts or troops on the Sinai. As I said a person can only believe that if they ignore the entire chain of events that lead to the war.

A more accurate analysis would be that BOTH sides chose to pursue their own interests in a way that resulted in an escalation in hostilities that lead to the war.

[DogOnPorch]

More gibberish. My "version of history" is not disputed by anyone but you. Its a completely uncontraversial account of events as they actually unfolded which of course why you were unable to dispute a single thing I said. If I claimed something happened, that in fact did not it would have been really easy for you to catch me out on that, but you cant... and you didnt... You simply choose to start "counting" on an arbitrary date, and pretend that the war started with various defense pacts or troops on the Sinai. As I said a person can only believe that if they ignore the entire chain of events that lead to the war.

A more accurate analysis would be that BOTH sides chose to pursue their own interests in a way that resulted in an escalation in hostilities that lead to the war.

Sure thing, dre...keep fighting that good fight. Perhaps if enough Newspeak history is repeated, it will become 'fact'.

[Guest American Woman]

GH, Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005. During the US Civil War, the North blockaded all of the ports in Dixie. The Confederacy was not under the control of the Union.

And when the UNSC has a blockade/embargo in place against a nation, that nation is not under the control of the U.N.; Iraq, for example, was very much under Saddam's control.

[DogOnPorch]

And when the UNSC has a blockade/embargo in place against a nation, that nation is not under the control of the U.N.; Iraq, for example, was very much under Saddam's control.

Of course. But, as you can see, there are viewpoints out there that make the Arab-Israeli conflict somehow different from the US Civil War...or Viet-Nam...or any number of wars. No flotillas for Saigon...

[Guest American Woman]

Of course. But, as you can see, there are viewpoints out there that make the Arab-Israeli conflict somehow different from the US Civil War...or Viet-Nam...or any number of wars. No flotillas for Saigon...

That's so true; and I really don't understand the mindset at all.

[dre]

And when the UNSC has a blockade/embargo in place against a nation, that nation is not under the control of the U.N.; Iraq, for example, was very much under Saddam's control.

Being in control of a nation most definately includes control over exports, imports, immigration, and emmigration. Hamas doesnt control those things Israel does.

[DogOnPorch]

That's so true; and I really don't understand the mindset at all.

It's the "do-over" aspect of war that is most interesting. Given the Arabs are the aggressors, giving them a do-over is akin to giving the Third Reich a do-over.

dre: Being in control of a nation most definately (sic) includes control over exports, imports, immigration, and emmigration (sic). Hamas doesnt control those things Israel does.

Oddly, the Union controlled those very things during the US Civil War.

[dre]

It's the "do-over" aspect of war that is most interesting. Given the Arabs are the aggressors, giving them a do-over is akin to giving the Third Reich a do-over.

The Arabs were only one of the aggressors... Unless of course you consider Israels bombings in 66 to be tidings of comfort and joy (or just pretend they didnt happen which seems to be what you are doing).

[DogOnPorch]

The Arabs were only one of the aggressors... Unless of course you consider Israels bombings in 66 to be tidings of comfort and joy (or just pretend they didnt happen which seems to be what you are doing).

The Mufti called for war and all the Arabs attacked.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War

[Guest American Woman]

Interesting fact sheet about Gaza found here: http://www.standwith...s/pdfs/Gaza.pdf

Perhaps the humanitarian flotilla should have stayed in Turkey .............

(Edited by American Woman to remove quote from source- info can be found by clicking on link)

Edited October 31, 2012 by American Woman

[GostHacked]

Being in control of a nation most definately includes control over exports, imports, immigration, and emmigration. Hamas doesnt control those things Israel does.

And that is where the real control lies regardless of the 'ruling' political structure within Gaza.

[bud]

Interesting fact sheet about Gaza: http://www.standwith...s/pdfs/Gaza.pdf

american woman shows her true hasbara bot roots, by posting from alan dershowitz's "stand with us" site. a propaganda site created by another israeli firster.

there is no point in responding to propaganda that uses quotes out of context to push an agenda, instead of trying to be truthful. i'll point out just one of those but to waste any more time is giving legitimacy to the b.s.

• “There is no acute malnutrition.’’—Mahmoud Daher, World Health Organization representative

as according to the footnotes of the propaganda piece posted by american woman, the above quote comes from an LA times article. the problem is that no such comment was made by mahmoud daher.

"It's not the kind of disaster that you might see in other places," said Mahmud Daher, head of WHO's Gaza office. "But it's always on the edge of a crisis. And without the help of the international community, it would be a crisis."

Passing through the half-mile Erez checkpoint and emerging into Gaza, the contrast could hardly be more stark. In Israel, there are shopping malls and traffic lights. In Gaza, donkey carts and herds of goats cross the road. Young boys pick through the debris of bombed-out buildings to salvage construction materials.

a dishonest person such as american woman will continue to spread misinformation because she is here to propagate for zionism.

Edited October 30, 2012 by bud

[DogOnPorch]

"It's not the kind of disaster that you might see in other places," said Mahmud Daher, head of WHO's Gaza office. "But it's always on the edge of a crisis. And without the help of the international community, it would be a crisis."

[Rue]

Being in control of a nation most definately includes control over exports, imports, immigration, and emmigration. Hamas doesnt control those things Israel does.

What world do you live in exactly? Israel can control to an extent what goes in and out of Gaza to try prevent military weapons from coming in but that does not stop smugglers. Your false misrepresentation thsat it prevents immigration and emmigration is b.s. Numerous Gaza citizens come in and out of Canada daily to their families in Mississauga. What fantasy world do you live in.

Movement of people in and out of Gaza as is the day to day life, controlled by Hamas which is in a state of declared war against Israel. If you don't want a blockade, how about you call Hamas who you seem to be an expert on and ask them why they live in a declared state of war with Israel or in your world does that magically vanish from your selective analysis.

Gaza does not operate solely at the whim of Israel. Its people coexisted peacefully with Israel who at one point funded numerous charities associated with Hamas when they did not support terror building roads, mosques, schools, government buildings and greenhouses. When Hamas was taken over by a pro Iranian-Syrian Hezbollah cell it chose to burn down all this infrastructure and rubber necklace alleged collaborators with Israel and tell its people they would now be held hostage and would be killed if they lived peacefully with Israel. You can pretend that did not happen and selectively pretend Israel simply acts in a vacuum with no cause and effect or reason for what it does but the usual tap dance routine to the propoganda spewed by the seuto-name "Bud" has grown tiresome.

By the way how about you check the site this "Bud" now cuts and pastes in entirety which would be considered trolling on other political forums but is not on this web site.

Check it out. It presented a false gallery of pictures allegedly drawn by Gaza children depicting them being attacked by Israeli missiles. It was revealed as a fraudulent display, The pictures were drawn by adults tryining to immitate how children would paint. The art display was exposed as a forgery.

That site and organization is funded by Iran. It has used Warren Allemand as a front to try gain respectability and when he was advised the art exhibition

was a forgery seems to have disappeared and refuses to provide interviews on his directorship. He was duped. Its a front for propoganda funded by

foreign anti Israeli intelligence. The scripts its puppets spew are right from Ministry of Information and Communications, Syria. The scripts are regurgitated 1960's scripts that promote the myth that Israelis and Palestinians can never get along.

This bullcrap that the GAza economy is in a strangehold is just that. Gaza is a hell-hole yes. The housing and sewage is horrid. But Hamas blew up its

infrastructure not Israel. Israel withdrew and the day it withdrew from Gaza, that very day, Hamas ordered missile atacks on Israel.

Much of the embargo you want to blame on Israel was in fact placed by Egypt trying to prevent Palestinians from Gaza into getting into Egypt. That of course you and "Bud' selectively ignore or the fact that the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt is now allowing the movement of terrorists in and out of its country to Gaza and is trying to push for its cell to take back Hamas.

Within a year or two there will be an internal civil war in Hamas as the Egyptian wing of the Mulsim Brotherhood openly clashes with the Hezbollah wing now weakening as its primary sponsor Assad is about to crumble.

Keep spinning away. However some of us unlike you have been to Gaza and understand the factions within Hamas at war with one another and Fatah.

We know the day to day streets are full of people who do not agree with Hamas and have been killed or tortured because of it.

You want to be a puppet for Hamas? Continue.

[dre]

What world do you live in exactly? Israel can control to an extent what goes in and out of Gaza to try prevent military weapons from coming in but that does not stop smugglers. Your false misrepresentation thsat it prevents immigration and emmigration is b.s. Numerous Gaza citizens come in and out of Canada daily to their families in Mississauga. What fantasy world do you live in.

I never said it prevents immigration, or goods from being smuggled. I simply said Gaza does not have control of these things in the way a sovereign state does.

You want to be a puppet for Hamas? Continue.

[Guest American Woman]

hasbara bot

Bud said "hasbara bot!"

dishonest

Bud said "dishonest."

[GostHacked]

What world do you live in exactly? Israel can control to an extent what goes in and out of Gaza to try prevent military weapons from coming in but that does not stop smugglers.

Many countries cannot stop smugglers. Red Herring point right there. Israel has ultimate control over Gaza, plain and simple. To think otherwise will do you more harm than good.

[DogOnPorch]

Bud said "hasbara bot!"

Bud said "dishonest."

Drink a beer!