Immigrant's qualities

[Rocky Road]

Someone referenced the high crime rate in Saskatoon and Regina, might have been this thread or another.

[Canuckistani]

People are dodging the question of why these people were accepted as immigrants in the first place. I thought immigrants had to speak one of the official languages well enough to get work, be disease free and have sufficient funds on hand to establish themselves. Why was this not followed here?

But I wonder if these were refugees, not immigrants? Different standards apply and should apply. But I would still say, refugee or immigrant, you commit a crime in Canada and it's buh bye.

[Argus]

Are you refering to "us" as a bunch of idiots?

Labour is labour. Most jobs people have take half a brain to perform and can be trained for in a very short period of time.

Perhaps your perspective is that of an untrained labourer who has seen nothing more complex, I dunno.

But in any event, a taxi driver with four kids pays essentially no taxes, and instead consumes a considerable amount of government services. An engineer probably pays quite a bit in taxes, and likely consumes fewer services since he likely has fewer kids.

[Guest Peeves]

People are dodging the question of why these people were accepted as immigrants in the first place. I thought immigrants had to speak one of the official languages well enough to get work, be disease free and have sufficient funds on hand to establish themselves. Why was this not followed here?

But I wonder if these were refugees, not immigrants? Different standards apply and should apply. But I would still say, refugee or immigrant, you commit a crime in Canada and it's buh bye.

They are called immigrants in the media so I have no reason to doubt that. Also coming from India would unlikely avail them of refugee status.

I agree many are dodging the issue as to why they were acceptable in the first place given the negatives in the article.

[Canuckistani]

This is not the first time we've heard this sort of thing. Can't count the number of times you hear about an immigrant that can't speak an official language, or has little job skills, etc. Why are we importing people like that? We've got plenty of unskilled Canadians that should be doing the unskilled jobs, or better yet, get training in a skill before we import people. It's just done to keep wages down.

[Argus]

Id love to see a link to demographers saying that adding to the population is not a solution to the population decreasing.

Although higher immigration can mitigate the imminent slowing down and reversal in labour-force growth, and can certainly meet specific labour-market shortages, no conceivable amount of immigration with an age profile such as Canada currently experiences can significantly affect the coming shift in the ratio of older to working-age Canadians.

http://www.cdhowe.or...grounder_96.pdf

That all depends on how you calculate that. If youd provide a cite then we could look at some numbers.

Well, to start with you could look at my cite showing the average income for immigrants from Pakistan is $16,000, and then figure out how much taxes they're likely to be contributing. Average income from immigrants in other parts of Asia is $13k and change. How much are THEY likely to be contributing in taxes?

And IF thats true, thats not a problem with immigration its a structural problem with our economy. If these jobs are a drain on our economy then that would be the case whether its immigrants working in them, or Canadians.

But we wouldn't have had the costs of bringing these people over and resettling them. And in any case, if we're going to be bringing people here it ought to be people who can contribute economically.

We have a labor shortage in Canada, and are you really suggesting the economy would be better off we didnt have people to do these "unskilled jobs"? If companies cannot fill these positions they will go somewhere where they can.

The cause of labour shortages is immigration. Were it not for immigration employers would do something to ensure that people were recruited and trained here to do the work. They'd be liasoning with community colleges and universities and doing mentorship, aprenticeship and training programs. They'd be eager to snap up young workers and train them. Instead, they just bleat to the government they can't find anyone, then get to recruit someone overseas who'll do the work at half the cost as anyone local.

Edited October 16, 2012 by Argus

[Canuckistani]

We would have to import 1 million young people a year to reverse the aging of our population. Anybody up for that.

Good point Argus how immigration prevents training of Canadians.

[dre]

Although higher immigration can mitigate the imminent slowing down and reversal in labour-force growth, and can certainly meet specific labour-market shortages, no conceivable amount of immigration with an age profile such as Canada currently experiences can significantly affect the coming shift in the ratio of older to working-age Canadians.

http://www.cdhowe.or...grounder_96.pdf

Well, to start with you could look at my cite showing the average income for immigrants from Pakistan is $16,000, and then figure out how much taxes they're likely to be contributing. Average income from immigrants in other parts of Asia is $13k and change. How much are THEY likely to be contributing in taxes?

But we wouldn't have had the costs of bringing these people over and resettling them. And in any case, if we're going to be bringing people here it ought to be people who can contribute economically.

The cause of labour shortages is immigration. Were it not for immigration employees would do something to ensure that people were recruited adn trained here to do the work. They'd be liasoning with community collegs and universities and doing mentorship, aprenticeship and training programs. They'd be eager to snap up young workers and train them. Instead, they just bleat to the government they can't find anyone, then get to recruit someone overseas who'll do the work at half the cost as anyone local.

But we wouldn't have had the costs of bringing these people over and resettling them. And in any case, if we're going to be bringing people here it ought to be people who can contribute economically.

They are. Low skilled workers contribute economically even if they DO pay less in taxes that they recieve in government services. And like I said... if we have jobs in Canada that dont pay enough for people to live thats a separate problem from immigration.

The cause of labour shortages is immigration.

No the cause of labor shortages is a shortage of laborors.

Canada’s labour shortage is becoming “desperate,” the Canadian Chamber of Commerce says, and threatens the country’s global economic competitiveness. It predicted that over the next decade there would be shortfalls of 163,000 in construction, 130,000 in oil and gas, 60,000 in nursing, 37,000 in trucking, 22,000 in the hotel industry and 10,000 in the steel trades.

People who look at this from an economic standpoint actually want to INCREASE immigration.

[login]

The only real argument here says :if the government is incapable of managing Canadians why expect them to be able to manage immigrants.

Export murder when you want it but shirk at responsibility when they ask.

Edited October 16, 2012 by login

[login]

Perhaps your perspective is that of an untrained labourer who has seen nothing more complex, I dunno.

But in any event, a taxi driver with four kids pays essentially no taxes, and instead consumes a considerable amount of government services. An engineer probably pays quite a bit in taxes, and likely consumes fewer services since he likely has fewer kids.

The engineer makes more off the system the government has provided.

The police and military protect more of his capital. He has more economic interest, gains services provided through maintaining the taxi drivers children etc... it is all a matter of perspective, everyone gains equally and pays equally based on the system that exists.

BENEFITS ARE NOT SOLEY MATERIAL.AND LAW IS NOT ALL OF SOCIETY.

Edited October 15, 2012 by login

[Argus]

the cause of labor shortages is a shortage of laborors.]

We've got tons of people out of work, and university graduates are desperately looking for work as waiters and waitresses. There's no shortage of workers.

People who look at this from an economic standpoint actually want to INCREASE immigration.

The Canadian Chamber of Commerce represents employers. Employers definitely want to increase immigration and work permits so they can get workers cheaper. That doesn't mean there's an actual shortage, just that they don't want to pay enough for the work.

[dre]

There's no shortage of workers.

Sorry but thats just not true. Studies estimate that we face a shortage of over 300 thousand workers across a wide range of fields. The federal government will be tweaking both immigration policy and guess worker programs to try to alleviate the shortage and a growing number of Canadian firms report they are unable to grow due to a shortage of workers.

And the shortage of workers is expected to get a lot worse as a glut of Canadians retire over the next 25 years. The shortage of skilled workers is especially bad, but its really a problem across the board.

[Argus]

Sorry but thats just not true. Studies estimate that we face a shortage of over 300 thousand workers across a wide range of fields. The federal government will be tweaking both immigration policy and guess worker programs to try to alleviate the shortage and a growing number of Canadian firms report they are unable to grow due to a shortage of workers.

There are probably a few areas which actually have a shortage of specific skilled workers. I'm talking about particular specialties, not general. Ie, there is no shortage of engineers, but perhaps engineers familiar with working with a particular little-known system or language, that I could buy. But most of those so-called shortages are just business not wanting to pay or train workers.

Recall the law of supply and demand if you will. If a specific skill starts to become in short supply what happens? It commands higher wages. As this skill gets in shorter supply the wages continue to rise. The higher wages attract more interest and people want to learn this skill. As more people learn the skill, the shortages disapear. That's how capitalism works from the workers side. What industry is doing is trying to short circuit it by bleating to government to bring over cheap labour from mostly third world countries so they won't have to pay higher wages and won't have to bother training people. My answer is - screw em. If you can't find enough employees, then pay more, and train them. If you don't want to do that, then go bankrupt or sell your business. Someone else will move in and start doing whatever you were doing if it's wanted. The only thing government should be doing, and it's the provincial governments, is consulting and training workers.

Business is always fully in support of capitalism, except when it doesn't profit them. Then they're all for government intervention. Funny thing that.

[jacee]

I wonder if anyone else has trouble with this family being accepted as immigrants in Canada?

A now murderer, Illiterate immigrant who is broke, can't speak English, with several (6) children, with a wife who had t.b and is an epileptic. (now murdered).

"they arrived in Canada from India, where they had lived after leaving Afghanistan. The couple failed to learn English, despite taking English as a second language classes for a full year, the daughter said.

Her mother suffered from epilepsy, and had tuberculosis. Both she and her husband were on disability benefits and money was running short."

It certainly is NOT the type I'd choose. After all, there are ramifications that cost the taxpayer...and now certainly the costs will multiply.

Oh, he also seems to have depression and mental problems...a real winner for 'immigrants(s) of the month' trophy.

http://news.national...ng-trial-hears/

I am trying to find out whether the Khairis are immigrants or refugees ... only found this ...

Canada Can't Save The World And Should Stop Trying

Illiterate, sick, uneducated, and on disability benefits. Doesn't sound like a recipe for success. Now we get to pay for his stay in prison. We can't save the world with our refugee system folks. Shut it down…

Those of you opposed to Canada accepting any refugees should just say so.

It stands to reason that refugees from war, famine etc will be traumatised and not healthy.

Edited October 16, 2012 by jacee

[login]

I am trying to find out whether the Khairis are immigrants or refugees ... only found this ...

Canada Can't Save The World And Should Stop Trying

Illiterate, sick, uneducated, and on disability benefits. Doesn't sound like a recipe for success. Now we get to pay for his stay in prison. We can't save the world with our refugee system folks. Shut it down…

Those of you opposed to Canada accepting any refugees should just say so.

It stands to reason that refugees from war, famine etc will be traumatised and not healthy.

Fact is, it is a big world, the illeterate can be literized, its a goal that Canadians should have for the world, the sick can be healed, the uneducated educated, and well disabled people may still find a place in society.

Your just not up for the job because you don't know how to do it.

The benefits people can give, just need to insure its not only a one way street, that is all that matters.

It is negligence and alienation and abuse that you people support and you deserve your failure for that reason alone.

Accept your failure and shut up.

Edited October 16, 2012 by login

[jacee]

Fact is, it is a big world, the illeterate can be literized, its a goal that Canadians should have for the world, the sick can be healed, the uneducated educated, and well disabled people may still find a place in society.

Your just not up for the job because you don't know how to do it.

The benefits people can give, just need to insure its not only a one way street, that is all that matters.

It is negligence and alienation and abuse that you people support and you deserve your failure for that reason alone.

Accept your failure and shut up.

? You talking to me?

[dre]

There are probably a few areas which actually have a shortage of specific skilled workers. I'm talking about particular specialties, not general. Ie, there is no shortage of engineers, but perhaps engineers familiar with working with a particular little-known system or language, that I could buy. But most of those so-called shortages are just business not wanting to pay or train workers.

Recall the law of supply and demand if you will. If a specific skill starts to become in short supply what happens? It commands higher wages. As this skill gets in shorter supply the wages continue to rise. The higher wages attract more interest and people want to learn this skill. As more people learn the skill, the shortages disapear. That's how capitalism works from the workers side. What industry is doing is trying to short circuit it by bleating to government to bring over cheap labour from mostly third world countries so they won't have to pay higher wages and won't have to bother training people. My answer is - screw em. If you can't find enough employees, then pay more, and train them. If you don't want to do that, then go bankrupt or sell your business. Someone else will move in and start doing whatever you were doing if it's wanted. The only thing government should be doing, and it's the provincial governments, is consulting and training workers.

Business is always fully in support of capitalism, except when it doesn't profit them. Then they're all for government intervention. Funny thing that.

Recall the law of supply and demand if you will. If a specific skill starts to become in short supply what happens? It commands higher wages. As this skill gets in shorter supply the wages continue to rise. The higher wages attract more interest and people want to learn this skill. As more people learn the skill, the shortages disapear. That's how capitalism works from the workers side.

That only worked when economies were national in their nature, but a Canadian shortage might not be a global shortage.

Companies have more options today than simply bidding up the cost of labor. They can move operations to where the affordable labor is, or they can move the affordable labor to where the operations are.

[Guest Peeves]

I am trying to find out whether the Khairis are immigrants or refugees ... only found this ...

Canada Can't Save The World And Should Stop Trying

Illiterate, sick, uneducated, and on disability benefits. Doesn't sound like a recipe for success. Now we get to pay for his stay in prison. We can't save the world with our refugee system folks. Shut it down…

Those of you opposed to Canada accepting any refugees should just say so.

It stands to reason that refugees from war, famine etc will be traumatised and not healthy.

You couldn't have tried very hard.

But I suppose if someone is bent on discussing refugees when I asked abut immigrants, they will find a way.

From the original post link .

literate and unable to speak English, Peer Khairi felt adrift in Canada after moving to Toronto with his family in 2003, according to his eldest daughter.

The Afghan immigrant and father of six watched as his children became ever more Westernized, going to the mosque and praying less often, and his daughter straying from tradition by secretly dating another Afghani immigrant, instead of marrying a cousin, she said in testimony put before a Toronto court Friday.

Edited October 17, 2012 by Peeves

[jacee]

You couldn't have tried very hard.

But I suppose if someone is bent on discussing refugees when I asked abut immigrants, they will find a way.

From the original post link .

That's not proof either.

It's worth noting that many people did flee the Taliban and war in Afghanistan around that time.

Do you think Canada should refuse to accept refugees?

Do you think immigrants who become disabled should be deported?

[Black Dog]

I wonder if there's ways to deport or otherwise dispose of native-born people who are sick, unable or unwilling to work and who otherwise don't conform to our values. It stands to reason that if we shouldn't bring them in, we shouldn't keep the ones we have.

[Guest Peeves]

I wonder if there's ways to deport or otherwise dispose of native-born people who are sick, unable or unwilling to work and who otherwise don't conform to our values. It stands to reason that if we shouldn't bring them in, we shouldn't keep the ones we have.

au contraire,

It fails to reason.

Besides while jc is debating an issue not on point and you are pursuing that path, I have posted about the qualities of immigrants and would they be acceptable.

Refugees or deportation was not at issue.

[Guest Peeves]

That's not proof either.

It's worth noting that many people did flee the Taliban and war in Afghanistan around that time.

Do you think Canada should refuse to accept refugees?

Do you think immigrants who become disabled should be deported?

I say it's proof. You can continue tilting at windmills, but these I referred to are immigrants.

Want to make separate new your post on these issues , "Do you think Canada should refuse to accept refugees?

Do you think immigrants who become disabled should be deported?" and I will be pleased to respond. Meantime that is not an issue in the OP.

That was about those Afghani immigrants.

[Guest Peeves]

UPDATE. On now classified Honor Killing.

http://news.national...honour-killing/

Apparently the rubric of 'Honor Killing" will now be entertained by the media. ?

I still can't see how these immigrants were accepted. Of course on thinking about it, Harper wasn't in a position to tighten our Liberal immigration policies. "Harper's Conservative Party won a stronger minority in the October 2008 federal election"

So they probably wouldn't meet the requirements today...I would hope.

The Crown alleges the accused killed his wife in early 2008, enraged at her permissive attitude toward their children’s increasing Westernization after the family immigrated to Canada from Afghanistan.

Mr. Khairi has pleaded not guilty to second-degree murder; the defence acknowledges he inflicted the fatal stab wounds, but will argue he did not have the mindset for murder.

In testimony from a preliminary hearing entered into evidence last week, the accused’s daughter, Giti Khairi, described her father as feeling adrift in Canada after immigrating in 2003. Unable to speak English, he watched as his six children moved away from their Muslim faith to adopt Western values. Randjida Khairi encouraged this, and even helped her daughter conceal a non-traditional romantic relationship from the accused, the court heard.

[Black Dog]

UPDATE. On now classified Honor Killing.

http://news.national...honour-killing/

Apparently the rubric of 'Honor Killing" will now be entertained by the media. ?

I still can't see how these immigrants were accepted. Of course on thinking about it, Harper wasn't in a position to tighten our Liberal immigration policies. "Harper's Conservative Party won a stronger minority in the October 2008 federal election"

So they probably wouldn't meet the requirements today...I would hope.

The irony here is that, if it were up to you, this guy's kids would be stuck in Afghanistan, living a far worse life than they are able to here. So i have to wonder who it is you're trying to protect. It's certainly not the wives and children in situations like these.

[Mr.Canada]

The irony here is that, if it were up to you, this guy's kids would be stuck in Afghanistan, living a far worse life than they are able to here. So i have to wonder who it is you're trying to protect. It's certainly not the wives and children in situations like these.

if he is of no use to Canada he shouldn't be welcome here. I am tired of Canada being a welfare dumping ground for the worlds garbage. These people are laughing at us for our laws. Giving everything away to people who have done nothing to support it. Canada is a joke to the world.