Ontario Disability

[TheNewTeddy]

my best friend's best friend (according to the former) has claimed ODSP stuff that he does not need.

However listening to this friend and his mental state, I do think maybe he should be on ODSP as he is more screwed up than I am.

[login]

Because I cannot name every welfare and ODSP scammer

because you cannot name even one.... means you have no grounds to say they exist as you do not know anyone even well enough to know their name let alone their habits.

It must collecting dust and never ringing according to you.

If they are like you it must be. Thinking the world is full of them, yet you would rather sit by and let them do it than call. Either you know of people who are doing this or you don't.

I lived on the streets for years from the time I was a sixteen until my mid twenties so I have first hand experience.

Of abetting welfare fraud? Give some case examples of these frauds.

If you think I've committed a crime simply contact your local police.

Give me your name and address. Since I don't beleive you, I'm not going to bug the police over this, but since you won't breach your net anonyminity you are just BS talking as far as I'm concerned.

Could it be you are the only fraudster you know?

Edited October 8, 2012 by login

[Mr.Canada]

because you cannot name even one.... means you have no grounds to say they exist as you do not know anyone even well enough to know their name let alone their habits.

If they are like you it must be. Thinking the world is full of them, yet you would rather sit by and let them do it than call. Either you know of people who are doing this or you don't.

Wow, you are really naive. People are defrauding the system everyday. That's why they have a fraud hotline. 700,000 people on social assistance in Ontario and none of them are defrauding the system in any way...wow that's amazing.

All law abiding citizens of which all of them are claiming every dollar they make from day labor places like Labor Ready which people work at and get paid cash daily.

None of them are visiting different doctors looking for one that will fill out the forms favorably for them...again simply amazing.

I wonder, has anyone ever defrauded the social assistance system in your opinion?

Give me your name and address. Since I don't beleive you, I'm not going to bug the police over this, but since you won't breach your net anonyminity you are just BS talking as far as I'm concerned.

I am exactly as I say I am on this forum. I have nothing to hide but I don't put my personal information out onto the web sorry. I have a wife and children to think about not just myself, sorry. I don't know why you doubt my experience. I lived on the streets for a long time and decided to get myself off the streets and now I'm a home owner and taxpayer. Why does that bother you?

If you're part of the poor people who have been languishing on the welfare rolls for years you have my sympathies but you need to help yourself and not expect a handout from society. Society owes you nothing. That's what I had to realize for myself before I could change my life.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Mr.Canada

[TheNewTeddy]

Give me your name and address. Since I don't beleive you, I'm not going to bug the police over this, but since you won't breach your net anonyminity you are just BS talking as far as I'm concerned.

Could it be you are the only fraudster you know?

If you want to pick on someone, pick on me.

[Moonlight Graham]

ODSP is all too common in my town. There are way too many able people that collect a monthly handout simply because they are too lazy or stupid to have a job and be productive. A lot of them are drug addicts, who make no effort to get off drugs, and no effort to find work. There are also people who lie, pretending to be disabled or insane. There are also skores of people collecting unemployment benefits, while pretending to look for work. It is far too easy to leech off the system in this country.

Prove it. Statistics and data please.

[Mr.Canada]

Prove it. Statistics and data please.

So if no stats exist then it isn't happening? So you think that someone from stats Canada should go around asking who is defrauding the system and for the people to answer truthfully? This is your position?

[TheNewTeddy]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/10/05/bc-disabilitycut.html

[Jiblethead]

http://www.lfpress.com/2012/09/28/one-in-15-londoners-rely-on-welfare

[TheNewTeddy]

33% of those on welfare are single parents.

I'm curious how you'd solve this problem. For many, going to work if you are a single parent means you end up with less money. How would you solve this

A - Take support away from the child and let him suffer as a result of his parent's bad decision?

B - Take more money away from the taxpayer to support this parent and their bad decisions?

[Mr.Canada]

33% of those on welfare are single parents.

I'm curious how you'd solve this problem. For many, going to work if you are a single parent means you end up with less money. How would you solve this

A - Take support away from the child and let him suffer as a result of his parent's bad decision?

B - Take more money away from the taxpayer to support this parent and their bad decisions?

The answer is to continually review social programs to ensure that the money allocated is being used as intended and that the tax payer is getting the most for their money. It may be necessary to draw funds away from some less effective programs to increase funding to better yielding programs, whatever they may be.

[TheNewTeddy]

ensure that the money allocated is being used as intended

THIS has my full support.

[Mr.Canada]

THIS has my full support.

If the OW and ODSP offices aren't being run efficiently then lets fix it and streamline it and instead of taking that money from the OW and ODSP programs I would like to see benefit rates increased to help the people make ends meet a little easier. People being in need should make them needy.

I really believe that the rates should be increased and it's long overdue imo but I do not agree that they should be increased 40% like OCAP says. I would like to see rates for OW and ODSP raised by $100 a month. It's not perfect but it would help without offending everyone(politicians, public on the right) too badly.

[Jiblethead]

my main concern is people using their handouts for the wrong things. Ive personally seen people using welfare checks and ODSP money on drugs. Spending at least half their handout on drugs. They need to be monitored more, even though it costs more.

[Mr.Canada]

my main concern is people using their handouts for the wrong things. Ive personally seen people using welfare checks and ODSP money on drugs. Spending at least half their handout on drugs. They need to be monitored more, even though it costs more.

Sure they do. Some spend some of it on cigarettes and beer as well. The only way to curb it 100% is to have the agency send the rent directly to the landlord, give a food allowance on a card only redeemable at certain locations and give everyone a bus pass. However I think it would create more problems then it would solve.

I would like to think that the majority of people on assistance spend their monthly allowance properly. I personally don't have a problem with someone buying a six pack a month then spending the rest responsibly.

I don't think these people are the problem. The big problem I have is with people who shouldn't be getting any cheques at all defrauding the government and the bureaucracy getting too big and bloated when that money could be spent on giving the people in actual need more benefits and/or better service. If the social workers don't care about the people then they shouldn't be in that field. We need real people who care working to help these people get off the system not robots like we mostly have now who push people through and hand them cheques because they don't want to do their jobs properly.

[TheNewTeddy]

There should be a portion that's unlimited, but beyond that, I'd support putting the rent amount as some sort of credit that can only be used for rent and nothing else. If there was a reliable way to get a "food card", that would also be a good idea, but people find crafty ways to defraud the system.

[Bonam]

33% of those on welfare are single parents.

I'm curious how you'd solve this problem. For many, going to work if you are a single parent means you end up with less money. How would you solve this

A - Take support away from the child and let him suffer as a result of his parent's bad decision?

B - Take more money away from the taxpayer to support this parent and their bad decisions?

Option A is always the case in life, it is unavoidable. And not having enough money is far down on the list of the types of "suffering" that a child might have as a result of his/her parent's bad decisions. Society cannot hope to insulate children from the mistakes of their parents, not without completely dismantling the family unit anyway.

[login]

I think there are a lot of unsubstantiated accusations floating around here. The only people referencong the frauds are people who let them happen, which means they themselves abet the frauds. Not exactly a trusted source of info.

I do think a better production based workfare program needs to replace ow, get back to tbe heart of houses of correction but with better human rights standards. Menial and unskilled labour isn't the answer though it must be trades apprenticeships that are in demand.

These programs exist to give the able poor a means to return to work. ODSP, thus the disabled are fully entitled to the alms.

It should just be a flat rate with an emergency mechanism for get all the audits and penny counts, the staff costs to manage that crap costs more and is inefficient. The public service costs way more than social assistance. Cutting public service and health are the only ways to remove provincial debt everything else is just for show.

Edited October 9, 2012 by login

[madmax]

I think there are a lot of unsubstantiated accusations floating around here. The only people referencong the frauds are people who let them happen, which means they themselves abet the frauds. Not exactly a trusted source of info.

Isn't that the truth...

Meanwhile, those double dipping scams mentioned above work out something like this article.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/10/05/bc-disabilitycut.html

Man regains transplant coverage lost because wife gets EI

Family of 5 can't claim maternity benefits and disability assistance at same time

Be very curious to hear the comments.....

[TheNewTeddy]

Isn't that the truth...

Meanwhile, those double dipping scams mentioned above work out something like this article.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/10/05/bc-disabilitycut.html

Man regains transplant coverage lost because wife gets EI

Family of 5 can't claim maternity benefits and disability assistance at same time

Be very curious to hear the comments.....

This is my comment

ensure that the money allocated is being used as intended

This kind of problem was never intended.

[Mr.Canada]

This is my comment

This kind of problem was never intended.

Of course not. These are not the people I am talking about. I am talking about the staff who work at ow and odsp and about people who doctor shop, the people who are able bodied and have been on welfare for years, the people who fake disabilities. Those are the problems.

[login]

Of course not. These are not the people I am talking about. I am talking about the staff who work at ow and odsp and about people who doctor shop, the people who are able bodied and have been on welfare for years, the people who fake disabilities. Those are the problems.

If you think doctors arn't qualified to diagnos then the solution is simple.

Limit doctors able to do the pre DAU review to those who pass tests like people feigning illness

those already getting odsp can be matched with "scammer" to see if they can detect the djfference. Only ones with clean records over a given period participating do the reviews.

Offer solutions to your problems.

I read a comment on the ow system being a sort of lean workforce , re sears "the lean state"

http://spe.library.utoronto.ca/index.php/spe/article/view/6816

Edited October 9, 2012 by login

[TheNewTeddy]

I also think far more effort needs to be put into literally dragging people on ODSP and OW to jobs, and literally dragging corporations to them.

Physically pick the person up, drive them to the interview, sit there with them, sell them to the company and sell the company to them, and try your best to get them the job.

In the long run you'll end up spending far less money on social supports.

[Mr.Canada]

I also think far more effort needs to be put into literally dragging people on ODSP and OW to jobs, and literally dragging corporations to them.

Physically pick the person up, drive them to the interview, sit there with them, sell them to the company and sell the company to them, and try your best to get them the job.

In the long run you'll end up spending far less money on social supports.

I disagree with some of what you said. People on social assistance need to take responsibility for themselves. I would expect the person on OW or ODSP to fully participate in a retraining program, present themselves professionally to interviews and show up on time on their own.

I would however agree that a better job could perhaps be done to get companies involved in directly hiring people on social assistance. In regards to people on ODSP I think companies should be directed on how the applicant is disabled and what their limitations are and how to best work with them so that the ODSP person is productive and the company is getting its monies worth.

[Jiblethead]

I also think far more effort needs to be put into literally dragging people on ODSP and OW to jobs, and literally dragging corporations to them.

Physically pick the person up, drive them to the interview, sit there with them, sell them to the company and sell the company to them, and try your best to get them the job.

In the long run you'll end up spending far less money on social supports.

it might also be a good idea to offer perks to the company for hiring the disabled. I believe there may be some out there, not 100% sure.

A big problem is incentive. Why would anyone want to work a shitty boring minimum wage job, when they can make the same amount of money for doing nothing at all?

[TheNewTeddy]

I got 599 on OW while waiting for ODSP, which is the 'standard' amount. No extras (like the food bonus) and no minuses (like living with parents)

The standard minimum wage is $10.25

Payroll taxes.

http://www.cra-arc.g...4032-on-12b.pdf

Provincial rate of $0

Federal rate of $0

So you'd need to make $599 from wages in a month to get the same as you get on OW.

Working 58.5 hours in a month gives you $599.625

That works out to a little under 15 hours a week.

Put another way, if you worked 8 hours on Saturday and Sunday, you'd make the equal for OW.

ODSP (Which is intended for the disabled) is a different story. I get $1,064, which is also 'standard'. If I worked 190.666* hours in a month at minimum wage, I'd get $1,954 in wages and $86.6 in ODSP. Note though that I'd also continue to get my head pills covered, which cost me $60 a month or so. Note that this does not calculate payroll deductions.

If I had my old job back ($12.25, 44 hours a week) I'd get $2,335.65 but no ODSP. I'd still be ahead. I'd also be on the 'fast track' to go back on ODSP should I lose my job. My Payroll deductions would be $96.50 provincial and $146.20 federal. This leaves me with $2,092.95.

http://www.paycheckcity.com/canada/coeatonca/caResults.aspx

My net pay would be $1,740.98

*190.666 = 44 hours a week, calculated precisely (52 weeks a year, 12 months a year)

Edited October 10, 2012 by TheNewTeddy