Obama's Contribution To The Subprime Lending Bubble (1996)

[JerrySeinfeld]

That chart should go up. If the us is generating and growing its GDP there is no reason why it shouldn't here is a news flash for you if that chart didn't go up then that would mean cuts in services.

The only point you are making is you don't understand economics.

Ah yes, the familiar "cuts in services" threats we always hear leftists warning us all about.

Why don't you do your homework before you start typing, my friend. Government spending has risen continuously AS A PERCENTAGE OF GDP. Sheesh. It's like herding cats, you two, Punked and Waldo.

http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/4e1c5ade4bd7c86b22030000-590/and-heres-another-look-at-federal-spending-as-a-percent-of-gdp-for-the-past-century-its-not-way-out-of-whack-these-days-at-least-relative-to-the-last-60-years-but-thanks-to-the-stimulus-its-higher-than-it-has-been-since-world-war-2-and-the-republicans-are-probably-right-its-too-high.jpg

Edited September 5, 2012 by JerrySeinfeld

[punked]

Ah yes, the familiar "cuts in services" threats we always hear leftists warning us all about.

Why don't you do your homework before you start typing, my friend. Government spending has risen continuously AS A PERCENTAGE OF GDP. Sheesh. It's like herding cats, you two, Punked and Waldo.

http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/4e1c5ade4bd7c86b22030000-590/and-heres-another-look-at-federal-spending-as-a-percent-of-gdp-for-the-past-century-its-not-way-out-of-whack-these-days-at-least-relative-to-the-last-60-years-but-thanks-to-the-stimulus-its-higher-than-it-has-been-since-world-war-2-and-the-republicans-are-probably-right-its-too-high.jpg

That graph shows it falling the last years. Must be because a Democrat is in office. It always takes a democrat to do what Republicans only talk about.

[JerrySeinfeld]

That graph shows it falling the last years. Must be because a Democrat is in office. It always takes a democrat to do what Republicans only talk about.

Why don't you have a look at an updated graph.

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/outlays-GDP.png

Hey why believe your lyin' eyes when you can keep those blinders on and keep spewing Democrat talking points.

Edited September 5, 2012 by JerrySeinfeld

[Smallc]

GDP hasn't been growing as fast in recent years, first of all, and second, this doesn't change the reality that Obama has increased spending slower than any president since Reagan.

[punked]

Why don't you have a look at an updated graph.

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/outlays-GDP.png

Hey why believe your lyin' eyes when you can keep those blinders on and keep spewing Democrat talking points.

You mean the updated graph that makes it perfectly clear the last numbers are estimates that don't mean anything? Yah not looking at that better go find one with real numbers instead of those ones so I can look at it.

Although you do know cutting spending in a crisis means high high high unemployment right? Look at Spain.

Edited September 5, 2012 by punked

[JerrySeinfeld]

You mean the updated graph that makes it perfectly clear the last numbers are estimates that don't mean anything? Yah not looking at that better go find one with real numbers instead of those ones so I can look at it.

Although you do know cutting spending in a crisis means high high high unemployment right? Look at Spain.

Spain's in trouble because the bond market took them out behind the barn and shot them - because they took on way too much debt.

Seriously, do you even understand what's going on in the world economy right now?

As for the graph, Obama grew government from 20% of the economy to 25%.

Look at the math bud - $2.7 Trillion in spending (bush) to $3.55 Trillion = a 25% increase.

Edited September 5, 2012 by JerrySeinfeld

[punked]

Spain's in trouble because the bond market took them out behind the barn and shot them - because they took on way too much debt.

Seriously, do you even understand what's going on in the world economy right now?

Ok we are getting somewhere. We agree the bond market is a good way to measure how much debt a country can take on because really that is who in the end you pay. However the Bond market right now IS PAYING THE US TO SELL BONDS. The US is buying bonds at the lowest price it ever has really, there is plenty of room to borrow.

Now Spain is an example of what happens when private industry and public industry deleverage at the same time. That SAME THING HAPPENED during the great depressions. What you advocate for are policy that would put 25% of the population out of work. THAT IS THE TALK OF A CRAZY MAN. We learned what happens during a liquidity trap during the great depression, public and private debt can't be caught at the same time with out HIGH HIGH HIGH UNEMPLOYMENT. It just can't be done. That is what you want though.

It is clear to me you have some idea of economics but you don't understand how it all relates together.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Ok we are getting somewhere. We agree the bond market is a good way to measure how much debt a country can take on because really that is who in the end you pay. However the Bond market right now IS PAYING THE US TO SELL BONDS. The US is buying bonds at the lowest price it ever has really, there is plenty of room to borrow.

Now Spain is an example of what happens when private industry and public industry deleverage at the same time. That SAME THING HAPPENED during the great depressions. What you advocate for are policy that would put 25% of the population out of work. THAT IS THE TALK OF A CRAZY MAN. We learned what happens during a liquidity trap during the great depression, public and private debt can't be caught at the same time with out HIGH HIGH HIGH UNEMPLOYMENT. It just can't be done. That is what you want though.

It is clear to me you have some idea of economics but you don't understand how it all relates together.

Really? It's me who doesn't understand economics? Then why did you refer to "the The US is buying bonds at the lowest price it ever has really, there is plenty of room to borrow".

If you knew anything abbout economics, you would not have said such a stupid thing, because when the US borrows money, it SELLS bonds. Not only that, but when interest rates on US Treasuries (ie. the cost of borroring) drop, that means the price of bonds has gone UP. Bond prices and interest rates have an inverse relationship - when rates drop, bond prices rise, and vise versa. So in fact THE EXACT OPPOSITE of what you said is happening: THE US IS SELLING BONDS AT THE HIGHEST PRICE IT EVER HAS.

I know what you meant, you meant the cost of borrowing for the USA is low right now. But to articulate in such a way illustrates your complete and utter lack of economic understanding.

Now that I have schooled you on how the bond market works, why don't we answer a couple of questions: First, why are US debt costs low? Pretty much everyone on the planet who knows anything about economics agrees that the US treasury rally is on the backs not of confidence in the greenback but on fear of the Euro (it's somewhat of a teeter totter).

There is only RELATIVE confidence in the US treasury. Don't believe me? Why don't you reference Bill Gross, manager of the world's largest bond fund as to the risks of the Treasury bubble:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/31/us-pimco-debt-idUSBRE84U15320120531

Or better yet, ask yourself this question: with the fed printing more and more money, thereby devaluing the US dollar, how long do you expect China to stay in a trade that pays them 0% yield and a falling currency value?

They haven't pulled the plug yet, but don't kid yourself, when they do it will be uglier than SPanish bonds times 100.

Don't believ me? Ask the world's largets bond rating agency, Moody's.

As for spain, if you have any intelligence on the subject at all, read thouroughly again the Bill Gross piece. US corporate balance sheets are fine. There is no deleveraging occuring there. Large US corpos are flush with cash.

The risk is sovereign debt. The US has spent itself to a point where investors fear the sovereign debt more than they do deleveraging, which is why there is $2 trillion sitting on the sidelines in the US corporate sector.

Show some fiscal discipline, create a more competitive (ie. lower) corporate tax structure stateside, and watch the power of the free market become, once again, unleashed.