Republican National Convention 2012 coverage

[waldo]

The auto industry has been years suffering because unions force them to pay $100k a year to some high school dropout just to snap a bumper into place when someone in China will do it for $7k.

Jerry, why be hatin on North American manufacturing? Really... did not know... that China is manufacturing North American autos!

hey Jer... what's this graph telling you about the, as you say, "auto industry suffering because of workers wages"? Damn those margins must be tight... super tight... super-duper tight, hey?

Automobile and Light-Duty Motor Vehicle Manufacturing(NAICS 33611) - Manufacturing Costs: 2000-2009

[punked]

Exactly how did Bush policy hurt the Auto industry?

The auto industry has been years suffering because unions force them to pay $100k a year to some high school dropout just to snap a bumper into place when someone in China will do it for $7k.

Jerry I can argue with you. You see we live in different worlds. I live in the real world with real facts that can be cited and linked to. You live in the Jerry/Shady world where the truth doesn't matter. Have fun with your delusions.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Jerry, why be hatin on North American manufacturing? Really... did not know... that China is manufacturing North American autos!

hey Jer... what's this graph telling you about the, as you say, "auto industry suffering because of workers wages"? Damn those margins must be tight... super tight... super-duper tight, hey?

Got the million pensioners and commensurate health benefits attached to this? How about pension contributions for future retirees?

Didn't think so.

[waldo]

The auto industry has been years suffering because unions force them to pay $100k a year to some high school dropout just to snap a bumper into place when someone in China will do it for $7k.

Jerry, why be hatin on North American manufacturing? Really... did not know... that China is manufacturing North American autos!

hey Jer... what's this graph telling you about the, as you say, "auto industry suffering because of workers wages"? Damn those margins must be tight... super tight... super-duper tight, hey?

Automobile and Light-Duty Motor Vehicle Manufacturing(NAICS 33611) - Manufacturing Costs: 2000-2009

Got the million pensioners and commensurate health benefits attached to this? How about pension contributions for future retirees?

Didn't think so.

you didn't think so? Jer, I just referenced what you spoke to... you know - wages! Now, you've been throwing down a whole lotta Jerry through these threads - unsubstantiated Jerry opinion. I responded appropriately to your wages reference... with a cited response. Let's see you continue this discussion where you now want to also introduce workers pensions and health benefits into the mix - you know, as you move the goalposts! Let's see you actually substantiate Jerry opinion with cited detail that presumes on your stated, "auto industry suffering" principally due to workers wages... and now the worker benefits you also want to mix in. I captured that right, didn't I Jerry - you're all about the principal cause of auto industry suffering as workers wages/benefits, right?... right, Jerry?

looking forward, finally, to some Jerry substantiation... what was it you said in the other thread? Oh ya... waiting!

[JerrySeinfeld]

[/indent]

you didn't think so? Jer, I just referenced what you spoke to... you know - wages! Now, you've been throwing down a whole lotta Jerry through these threads - unsubstantiated Jerry opinion. I responded appropriately to your wages reference... with a cited response. Let's see you continue this discussion where you now want to also introduce workers pensions and health benefits into the mix - you know, as you move the goalposts! Let's see you actually substantiate Jerry opinion with cited detail that presumes on your stated, "auto industry suffering" principally due to workers wages... and now the worker benefits you also want to mix in. I captured that right, didn't I Jerry - you're all about the principal cause of auto industry suffering as workers wages/benefits, right?... right, Jerry?

looking forward, finally, to some Jerry substantiation... what was it you said in the other thread? Oh ya... waiting!

Move the goalposts? So now in Waldoland, employee costs don't include pension liabilities and health care costs for union members and retirees?

Where'd you go to business school, Harvard? LOL!!!

[JerrySeinfeld]

[/indent]

you didn't think so? Jer, I just referenced what you spoke to... you know - wages! Now, you've been throwing down a whole lotta Jerry through these threads - unsubstantiated Jerry opinion. I responded appropriately to your wages reference... with a cited response. Let's see you continue this discussion where you now want to also introduce workers pensions and health benefits into the mix - you know, as you move the goalposts! Let's see you actually substantiate Jerry opinion with cited detail that presumes on your stated, "auto industry suffering" principally due to workers wages... and now the worker benefits you also want to mix in. I captured that right, didn't I Jerry - you're all about the principal cause of auto industry suffering as workers wages/benefits, right?... right, Jerry?

looking forward, finally, to some Jerry substantiation... what was it you said in the other thread? Oh ya... waiting!

Read and learn, Einstein.

http://howestreet.com/2012/08/gm-seeks-bigger-credit-line-to-shrink-pension-obligations-deja-vu-pension-woes/

[GostHacked]

Jerry I can argue with you. You see we live in different worlds. I live in the real world with real facts that can be cited and linked to. You live in the Jerry/Shady world where the truth doesn't matter. Have fun with your delusions.

I think all of you are delusional for believing anything Obama or Romney puts forth.

[JerrySeinfeld]

I think all of you are delusional for believing anything Obama or Romney puts forth.

Since about 1970, there has only been one constant, regardless of political party: steady, relentless growth in taxes, regulation, and government. Bush just happened to be the sorry sap who was sitting in the oval office when it all hit the fan. The problems of debt, easy money, massive government deficits and spending, increased taxation has been slowly stewing for 40 years.

So ask yourself, is the answer to these problems MORE OF THE SAME? That's what Europe just did - they're teetering on a debt cliff from 40 years of "free" pie, and they all just voted themselves more pie.

That's the Obama answer to 40 years of spending, debt, and growth of taxes: MORE!

[waldo]

Move the goalposts? So now in Waldoland, employee costs don't include pension liabilities and health care costs for union members and retirees?

calm down Jerry... you shouldn't have narrowed your "suffering causal tie" to only your stated, 'wages reference'. Which is what I responded to... before you got all snarky over my cited graphic blowing up your claim.

Read and learn, Einstein.

oh... you're one of those guys who drops a "ta da" link, doesn't quote from it... and says "here, read this"!

I didn't find anything in your link that principally attributed workers wages/benefits to GM's "suffering". I didn't find anything in your link that actually showed just where workers wages/benefits line up in relation to overall auto-industry costs... you know, like the graphic I referenced when the initial discussion only focused on wages (before you moved the goalposts!). Is it a problem for you to actually respond to the challenge and identify just what percentage of overall costing workers wages/benefits has... on your "suffering scale"? In any case, I appreciate you providing a blog reference link that speaks to a GM want to divest itself of it's pension liability responsibilities... after all, the balance sheet is key, hey? Oh wait... didn't you hear - "GM is back... numero uno, once again!"

[GostHacked]

oh... you're one of those guys who drops a "ta da" link, doesn't quote from it... and says "here, read this"!

Sorry if this is off topic, but we should go look at some of your posts regarding global warming.

[waldo]

Sorry if this is off topic, but we should go look at some of your posts regarding global warming.

bring it on!

[GostHacked]

Since about 1970, there has only been one constant, regardless of political party: steady, relentless growth in taxes, regulation, and government. Bush just happened to be the sorry sap who was sitting in the oval office when it all hit the fan. The problems of debt, easy money, massive government deficits and spending, increased taxation has been slowly stewing for 40 years.

So ask yourself, is the answer to these problems MORE OF THE SAME? That's what Europe just did - they're teetering on a debt cliff from 40 years of "free" pie, and they all just voted themselves more pie.

That's the Obama answer to 40 years of spending, debt, and growth of taxes: MORE!

That is how I view it. But I am more specific with long standing governmental policies that have brought the country to this point. And yet people keep buying the same kool aid (on both sides the drink is the exact same, just a different fancy label making you believe they are different) no matter what clown they decide is going to be teleprompting from the podium.

Both the Dems and Reps have in concert brought the USA to this breaking point. And more and more it just seems like it was deliberately done all this time. I am ashamed of myself sometimes for believing that politicians (for the vast majority of them) can do good on their words.

So now I will vote for Obamney Rombama because "Yes we can do this!" /facepalm

[JerrySeinfeld]

calm down Jerry... you shouldn't have narrowed your "suffering causal tie" to only your stated, 'wages reference'. Which is what I responded to... before you got all snarky over my cited graphic blowing up your claim.

oh... you're one of those guys who drops a "ta da" link, doesn't quote from it... and says "here, read this"!

I didn't find anything in your link that principally attributed workers wages/benefits to GM's "suffering". I didn't find anything in your link that actually showed just where workers wages/benefits line up in relation to overall auto-industry costs... you know, like the graphic I referenced when the initial discussion only focused on wages (before you moved the goalposts!). Is it a problem for you to actually respond to the challenge and identify just what percentage of overall costing workers wages/benefits has... on your "suffering scale"? In any case, I appreciate you providing a blog reference link that speaks to a GM want to divest itself of it's pension liability responsibilities... after all, the balance sheet is key, hey? Oh wait... didn't you hear - "GM is back... numero uno, once again!"

Weird, you ask for evidence other than my words, so when I provide it you get sorta pissy? hmm.

Yep. Show me a business that wouldn't prosper for a few years after being relinquished of it's debts and a handed a bucketload of government cash. Good old Government Motors ;-)

As for their pension problem, Union contracts demand generous pension and health commitments from the company. This is a major cost drag on the company. GM, even with a good year makes around 7 billion in earnings. Their Pension is underfunded by $26 billion.

Any idiot can see this is a major cost drag. Unions did take some concessions nearing GM's bankruptcy (after President Obama leaned on the bondholders, contravened insolvency law and handed the company to his union buddies, of course - Halliburton, anyone?). As a result of these concessions, the union isn't as big a drag on the company as it once was. See? Even the unions realized they were making too much - oops too general for the accountant in the room - I mean even the unions realized their wages, combined with pensions, cadillac he alt care plans and other costs associated with employing a unionized worker...were too high.

Edited September 3, 2012 by JerrySeinfeld

[WWWTT]

Exactly how did Bush policy hurt the Auto industry?

The auto industry has been years suffering because unions force them to pay $100k a year to some high school dropout just to snap a bumper into place when someone in China will do it for $7k.

Actually I read somewhere that labour accounts for %5 of the cost of a car (I remember now,it was a CAW spokesperson)

Are you suggesting a couple of percentage points for the cost of a car has a greater impact than the influence management has?And how much of the cost of the same car is management responsible for?

Your pushing something that does not add up.

And you know what they say when stories don't add up.

WWWTT

[JerrySeinfeld]

Actually I read somewhere that labour accounts for %5 of the cost of a car (I remember now,it was a CAW spokesperson)

Are you suggesting a couple of percentage points for the cost of a car has a greater impact than the influence management has?And how much of the cost of the same car is management responsible for?

Your pushing something that does not add up.

And you know what they say when stories don't add up.

WWWTT

GM's recent quarter has net earnings of $1.8 billion on revenues of $37.6 billion, so a net margin of about 4.7%, so yes, I would say the demands by unions have a significant and meaningful impact on the fortunes of GM.

But hey, don't let that stop you from regurgitating Union boss talking points

Edited September 4, 2012 by JerrySeinfeld

[WWWTT]

[/size]

Read and learn, Einstein.

http://howestreet.com/2012/08/gm-seeks-bigger-credit-line-to-shrink-pension-obligations-deja-vu-pension-woes/

From the way I understand how pensions work,so much is set aside per every hour that the employee works.Then that money is re-invested.When the employee retires,they then draw on the amount that they have established.

Sounds like someone here was not putting the money away properly.Management???

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

GM's recent quarter has net earnings of $1.8 billion on revenues of $37.6 billion, so a net margin of about 4.7%, so yes, I would say the demands by unions have a significant and meaningful impact on the fortunes of GM.

But hey, don't let that stop you from regurgitating Union boss talking points

So then you are saying that worker wages have a greater impact then management.

So why pay management the big bucks when they are not that important?

WWWTT

Edited September 4, 2012 by WWWTT

[JerrySeinfeld]

From the way I understand how pensions work,so much is set aside per every hour that the employee works.Then that money is re-invested.When the employee retires,they then draw on the amount that they have established.

Sounds like someone here was not putting the money away properly.Management???

WWWTT

Union workers/teachers and other of the self entitled class have a warped expectation of how much they save and deserve.

I talked to a teacher who has something like $300 deducted for pension contributions per month. Over a 40 year career, that adds up to about $150,000. Then they expect to draw a pension of $50,000 per year. The math doesn't add up because interest rates have dropped and investment returns aren't even close to what they used to be - so the pension fund can't grow as quickly as it used to in the 80's.

Additionally, in order to generate a lifetime income of $50K per year, you today you would need in the neighbourhood of $1.4 million saved up. That difference is called "underfunded", and it is a large problem. The union guy at GM or the teacher has no clue that the company (or taxpayer, in the case of public sector teachers) is forced to come up with the difference. What does he care? In his little bubble of a world, he has a "right" to the pension because he "paid into it", completely oblivious to the fact that his contributions add up to roughly 3 years of pension income, not the 25 he has come to expect.

Times have changed. It's about time people who work in cushy union gigs realize that they are going to suffer the consequences of poor markets and economics, just like the rest of the world does. Your bubble just got burst.

Problem is, these people don't want to face reality. So they are easy targets for a snake oil salesman like Obama who comes along and helps reaffirm their fantasy world by pretending (incorrectly) that everything will be OK if we just stick it to some rich guy who can afford it.

Edited September 4, 2012 by JerrySeinfeld

[GostHacked]

Problem is, these people don't want to face reality. So they are easy targets for a snake oil salesman like Obama who comes along and helps reaffirm their fantasy world by pretending (incorrectly) that everything will be OK if we just stick it to some rich guy who can afford it.

Does Romney have the better snake oil then?

[WWWTT]

Union workers/teachers and other of the self entitled class have a warped expectation of how much they save and deserve.

That's quite the story/claim.

Does not explain the cost of a car and not very informative.

WWWTT