Empire State Building shooting

GostHacked · August 25, 2012

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/24/justice/new-york-empire-state/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

"We have on tape the perpetrator pulled his gun out and tried to shoot at the cops," Mayor Michael Bloomberg said. "Whether he got off any bullets or not, to be determined."
Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said the bystanders were not hit directly by police, but rather the officers' struck "flowerpots and other objects around, so ... their bullets fragmented and, in essence, that's what caused the wounds."

I thought cops were to be a better shot than that. Also firing on a suspect when in a crowded street is going to get people injured and possibly killed. Sure you need to take down the suspect, but 9 civilians were injured in the process. That's not a good ratio.

Now here is an interesting point. Many people who give the 'collateral damage' a pass when involved in military operations overseas, but will they give this 'collateral damage' a pass on the streets of American cities?

j44 · August 25, 2012

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/24/justice/new-york-empire-state/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

I thought cops were to be a better shot than that. Also firing on a suspect when in a crowded street is going to get people injured and possibly killed. Sure you need to take down the suspect, but 9 civilians were injured in the process. That's not a good ratio.

Now here is an interesting point. Many people who give the 'collateral damage' a pass when involved in military operations overseas, but will they give this 'collateral damage' a pass on the streets of American cities?

Even cops will tell you that in a situation like that with your adrenaline pumping it is incredibly difficult to stay calm and shoot accurately. All of your senses are off.

I think this is why you don't hear too many stories of of civilians pulling their gums and saving a life. Or even defending themselves successfully. Unless they are experienced.

And it is possible it wasn't 9 stray bullets. It could have been a couple that fragmented on a busy NYC street.

TheNewTeddy · August 25, 2012

I don't know much about this story, but I saw the headline, and read the CNN article.

If the "bad guy" died from police bullets, and if the "other dead guy" was killed by the "bad guy", then I'd say only wounding people from "missed" police bullets is not nearly as bad as killing any of them.

j44 · August 25, 2012

I don't know much about this story, but I saw the headline, and read the CNN article.

If the "bad guy" died from police bullets, and if the "other dead guy" was killed by the "bad guy", then I'd say only wounding people from "missed" police bullets is not nearly as bad as killing any of them.

Also, I heard (briefly) on the news that in Chicago 19 people were shot overnight in several incidents. I would like to see this stuff covered more often and the madmen not being blown up so much. No pun intended.

August 25, 2012

I haven't read any objections to the way police handled the situation. Here's a quote that I did see:

"I saw a friend of mine lying on the street bleeding. She was in shock," said Christopher Collins, who said he tried to keep her calm as he rode with her in an ambulance. "I'm glad the cops shot him dead. One less trial we have to go through."

link

No one suffered life-threatening injuries, and the murderer was taken out before he killed any more. As I said, I haven't read of any criticism directed at the police and I'm sure many were glad that he was taken out before more people were killed.

GostHacked · August 25, 2012

What would your reactions be if one or more of the bystanders end up dying because of the police gunfire? And why would that be different?

bleeding heart · August 25, 2012

Just as a slight side-point:

"I saw a friend of mine lying on the street bleeding. She was in shock," said Christopher Collins, who said he tried to keep her calm as he rode with her in an ambulance. "I'm glad the cops shot him dead. One less trial we have to go through." link

Oh, the poor baby. Thankfully the man was shot, so that this fellow doesn't have to "go through...a trial."

A much quicker, better, more efficient form of justice, undoubtedly. The police should take note and act accordingly.

(And yes, yes, the fellow's friend was hurt and in shock, and he was no doubt outraged and worried about her. I get that. But still, an interesting comment.)

Edited August 25, 2012 by bleeding heart

wyly · August 25, 2012

What would your reactions be if one or more of the bystanders end up dying because of the police gunfire? And why would that be different?

what would the reaction be if was gang members spraying bullets everywhere...

but what else could the police do, once the suspect knows the police have him in sight what's to prevent him from going into a building and taking hostages?

wyly · August 25, 2012

Even cops will tell you that in a situation like that with your adrenaline pumping it is incredibly difficult to stay calm and shoot accurately. All of your senses are off.

I think this is why you don't hear too many stories of of civilians pulling their gums and saving a life. Or even defending themselves successfully. Unless they are experienced.

And it is possible it wasn't 9 stray bullets. It could have been a couple that fragmented on a busy NYC street.

ya people believe all that hollywood crap about wounding someone in the leg or hand to disable or disarm, pure fantasy...targeting the hand or leg of someone who is moving while trying to kill you isn't reality, cops aim for the largest target the torso and when it's moving in a crowd and shooting back that's not an easy task...and as you mentioned throw in a heaping dose of adrenaline this a situation like nothing they've encountered in training...