So McGuinty wants to push Gun Control.

[Boges]

Odd... they still have among the lowest (if not the lowest) property taxes in the province. (which comes from municipal funding)

If they brought them up to par they'd be able to afford these police and then some!

Well they do have a Land Transfer Tax above and beyond the Provincial one and Real Estate in Toronto is valued much higher than anywhere else in the province.

Not that I'm a Toronto Fanboy, I'm just sayin'.

So yeah they should be able to pay for their police. The announcement is really a non-announcement. It's not new funding, it's just maintaining funding that was meant to expire.

However we know Dolton will probably pay for it by canceling service to some Conservative riding.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Boges

[guyser]

Odd... they still have among the lowest (if not the lowest) property taxes in the province. (which comes from municipal funding)

If they brought them up to par they'd be able to afford these police and then some!

No question the prop tax rates are below what they should be. But thats a different discussion than what was posted.

No matter what though, they pay far more into Ont than they could ever recieve.

Mayor Ford is a dolt to even ask. If he used his brain for more than searching out KFC spots, he would know it is a non starter to ask.

Edited July 24, 2012 by guyser

[Topaz]

Just curious, what's a low property tax is TO.?

[MiddleClassCentrist]

Just curious, what's a low property tax is TO.?

I had a good link that I can't find anymore.

Toronto was cheaper that most places.

I found this old one... http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/349083--property-tax-calculator

500k in Toronto -> $3054.63

Grabbed some at random

Oakville -> $3863.35

Markham - > $3929.84

Newmarket -> $4533.99

Pickering -> $5618.25

Edited July 26, 2012 by MiddleClassCentrist

[Wild Bill]

I had a good link that I can't find anymore.

Toronto was cheaper that most places.

I found this old one... http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/349083--property-tax-calculator

500k in Toronto -> $3054.63

Grabbed some at random

Oakville -> $3863.35

Markham - > $3929.84

Newmarket -> $4533.99

Pickering -> $5618.25

Interesting. I was paying $3200 for a 220k house in Stoney Creek.

What makes Toronto folks so special? Why should I be expected to subsidize them with my taxes?

I avoid going to Toronto like the plague! I have been stung before by their predatory parking practices and public transportation from most parts of Hamilton to Toronto is inconvenient to non-existent.

Screw 'em and the horses they rode in on!

[guyser]

Interesting. I was paying $3200 for a 220k house in Stoney Creek.

What makes Toronto folks so special? Why should I be expected to subsidize them with my taxes?

Subsidize whom? Toronto?

No, TO subsidizes the rest of the province. That I presume includes Hamilton

Yea, we love you too.

[Wild Bill]

Subsidize whom? Toronto?

No, TO subsidizes the rest of the province. That I presume includes Hamilton

Yea, we love you too.

Well, my direct experience would differ, guyser. Toronto used to be part of my sales territory, selling parts to high tech electronic manufacturers.

I would agree with you somewhat if we were talking about the GTA and excluded OLD Toronto! All my accounts were in Mississauga, Pickering and north of the 401. I had virtually none within the old city of Toronto. I would have been very surprised if I did have any! With the difficulty in quick car access why would any account want to locate there?

No doubt you are now going to default onto the banks. There are indeed many bank headquarters in downtown Toronto. So what? Banks count money. They don't actually make or service anything! Here in Ontario, they are so stingy and bureaucratic about loans to businesses that most pursue other financial vendors anyway.

What's more, in this day and age the location of a bank HQ doesn't matter anyway. It's an online world. ING is a bank that has no physical locations here at all and they are MUCH more friendly to business accounts!

So I would be interested if you could tell me specifically what Toronto is bringing all the rest of us outside its borders to justify our taxes going their way.

A loser hockey team, perhaps? Maybe we Hamiltonians should feel some loyalty despite Toronto using its political clout to block our airport expansion, forcing us to fight the QEW for a couple of hours just to get a plane out of the country? (A lot of us refuse to do it any longer and fly out of Buffalo. Cheaper, too!) And we have the Toronto Leafs to thank for blocking Hamilton from getting an NHL team all these years.

C'mon, guyser! Give us some specifics!

[guyser]

Well, my direct experience would differ, guyser. Toronto used to be part of my sales territory, selling parts to high tech electronic manufacturers.

And that has what to do with taxes in TO?

No doubt you are now going to default onto the banks. There are indeed many bank headquarters in downtown Toronto. So what? Banks count money. They don't actually make or service anything! Here in Ontario, they are so stingy and bureaucratic about loans to businesses that most pursue other financial vendors anyway.

What's more, in this day and age the location of a bank HQ doesn't matter anyway. It's an online world. ING is a bank that has no physical locations here at all and they are MUCH more friendly to business accounts!

WTH are you talking about? We were on taxes, property and general paid.

So I would be interested if you could tell me specifically what Toronto is bringing all the rest of us outside its borders to justify our taxes going their way.

Taxes !

This city provides the Province with far more, as in BILLIONS more than they recieve. That means Ont gets to spend from the general account that is supplemented very well by TO's largesse.

Your taxes are not coming to TO. As much as you hate the city it just isnt true.

Chances are Hamilton pays more to the Province than it gets back.

A loser hockey team, perhaps? Maybe we Hamiltonians should feel some loyalty despite Toronto using its political clout to block our airport expansion, forcing us to fight the QEW for a couple of hours just to get a plane out of the country? (A lot of us refuse to do it any longer and fly out of Buffalo. Cheaper, too!) And we have the Toronto Leafs to thank for blocking Hamilton from getting an NHL team all these years.

C'mon, guyser! Give us some specifics!

If you owned the Leafs, you'dblock a team in Hamilton , well you wouldnt, but the Commish would since the distance involved is less than the rights extend.

Sorry, but thats merely a geographical reality. Put Hamilton on the other side of London and maybe you'd have a point.

You have an International Airport. There is a flight to Kapuskasing leaving shortly.

Edited July 26, 2012 by guyser

[Wild Bill]

And that has what to do with taxes in TO?

WTH are you talking about? We were on taxes, property and general paid.

Taxes !

This city provides the Province with far more, as in BILLIONS more than they recieve. That means Ont gets to spend from the general account that is supplemented very well by TO's largesse.

Your taxes are not coming to TO. As much as you hate the city it just isnt true.

Chances are Hamilton pays more to the Province than it gets back.

If you owned the Leafs, you'dblock a team in Hamilton , well you wouldnt, but the Commish would since the distance involved is less than the rights extend.

Sorry, but thats merely a geographical reality. Put Hamilton on the other side of London and maybe you'd have a point.

You have an International Airport. There is a flight to Kapuskasing leaving shortly.

Guyser, where do you think tax money comes from? Not just from homes but from businesses!

As for what Toronto receives from the rest of us, how about that 400 MILLION for new street cars that came about from a rigged deal to have them manufactured at union shops in Thunder Bay, at a cost far above what could have been achieved from an open tender?

How has Toronto been able to afford those hundreds of garbage trucks that tear up the 400 series highways EVERY DAY to take the crap to Michigan, after quashing a deal that would have benefited Kirkland Lake?

Why should the rest of us pay for those loony toons refugees they call their councilors?

And thank you for agreeing with me that Toronto has hurt Hamilton as regards to a hockey team and better airport service. I HAD thought you were going to cite some ways that Toronto BENEFITED Hamilton but I guess you are as stumped to come up with examples as I am!

[guyser]

Guyser, where do you think tax money comes from? Not just from homes but from businesses!

Yea...I knew that. So what?

As for what Toronto receives from the rest of us, how about that 400 MILLION for new street cars that came about from a rigged deal to have them manufactured at union shops in Thunder Bay, at a cost far above what could have been achieved from an open tender?

Do the math , there is a shortfall of over $4B dollars.....that means TO pays it ($16B) and gets ($12B)far less back.

Who gives a f about $400M when $4B is much larger. Chances are, Hamilton pays more and gets less back. Welcome to the big city life...or mid-size city life for some west of TO.

How has Toronto been able to afford those hundreds of garbage trucks that tear up the 400 series highways EVERY DAY to take the crap to Michigan, after quashing a deal that would have benefited Kirkland Lake?

Taxes

And Kirkland Lake fought against taking the garbage. They won, and lost.

Why should the rest of us pay for those loony toons refugees they call their councilors?

Call me when the rest of you are paying. In the meantime, you arent, never did.

And thank you for agreeing with me that Toronto has hurt Hamilton as regards to a hockey team and better airport service. I HAD thought you were going to cite some ways that Toronto BENEFITED Hamilton but I guess you are as stumped to come up with examples as I am!

The Commish resides in NY. Its his call.And the by laws of the NHL say no team can go there. Again, geography.

You wouldnt allow a team in Hamilton either if you owned the Leafs. Even if you lived in Hamilton you wouldnt. Business....not about to let your market get watered down.

Hamilton does benefit having TO near by. Arts, entertainment, prestige and an airport that sends planes anywhere and everywhere.

Not to mention the awesomeness of being near Toronto makes even the Hamilton Bay look almost nice.

Dont be a jealous hatin' Steel City-ite.

Edited July 26, 2012 by guyser

[Wild Bill]

Yea...I knew that. So what?

Do the math , there is a shortfall of over $4B dollars.....that means TO pays it ($16B) and gets ($12B)far less back.

Who gives a f about $400M when $4B is much larger. Chances are, Hamilton pays more and gets less back. Welcome to the big city life...or mid-size city life for some west of TO.

Taxes

And Kirkland Lake fought against taking the garbage. They won, and lost.

Call me when the rest of you are paying. In the meantime, you arent, never did.

The Commish resides in NY. Its his call.And the by laws of the NHL say no team can go there. Again, geography.

You wouldnt allow a team in Hamilton either if you owned the Leafs. Even if you lived in Hamilton you wouldnt. Business....not about to let your market get watered down.

Hamilton does benefit having TO near by. Arts, entertainment, prestige and an airport that sends planes anywhere and everywhere.

Not to mention the awesomeness of being near Toronto makes even the Hamilton Bay look almost nice.

Dont be a jealous hatin' Steel City-ite.

You'd be surprised how few Hamiltonians visit Toronto. Why the hell would we? When's the last time YOU fought the traffic to make the trip?

Perhaps we should be going to Leafs games and watch them choke every year? We used to go to Jays games but after nearly two decades of "rebuilding years" we've gotten a bit jaded.

You don't have to keep repeating about the NHL. I get it! Toronto screws Hamiton for hockey because they think we are a good part of their game attendance. You and the suits for the NHL and the Leafs should wake up and realize its no longer 1975. Do you have any idea how long is the trip from Hamilton in driving time? And the cost/aggravation in time?

Man, I thought I was old and getting out of touch! Can't hold a candle to you guys!

Again, I asked you for specifics and you give me crap, gloating while you do it! You just keep putting Hamilton down, thus proving my point!

Just as a sidebar, Kirkland Lake was never against Toronto's business. That was a putup job by some environmentalists on Toronto council. If you have no memory then you should at least use Google!

Edited July 26, 2012 by Wild Bill

[guyser]

You'd be surprised how few Hamiltonians visit Toronto. Why the hell would we? When's the last time YOU fought the traffic to make the trip?

Hmm...probably a couple of weeks since I was last in Hamilton. Ok few make the rip the other way. So?

Perhaps we should be going to Leafs games and watch them choke every year? We used to go to Jays games but after nearly two decades of "rebuilding years" we've gotten a bit jaded.

Dont become a Cubs/Astros/Blue Jackets/Chiefs fan then.

You don't have to keep repeating about the NHL. I get it! Toronto screws Hamiton for hockey because they think we are a good part of their game attendance. You and the suits for the NHL and the Leafs should wake up and realize its no longer 1975. Do you have any idea how long is the trip from Hamilton in driving time? And the cost/aggravation in time?

I best keep repeating it since you continue to not get it. The Leafs have an opinion, the league has the law,no teams in a certain geographical radius.Hamilton falls in that zone.

And the truth is, Hamilton doesnt have the cash to buy that clause out, let alone carry a team . No corporate will to do so.

The trip length is TO's fault? Wow, didnt know we had such pull to slow traffic!

Again, I asked you for specifics and you give me crap, gloating while you do it! You just keep putting Hamilton down, thus proving my point!

No, I will mock you incorrect assertions if you keep ragging on everything else.

I actually quite like Hamilton, spent plenty of time there as my uncles and aunts, cousins all hail from there. Went to McMaster for Uni too.

Yea...I must hate it.

Just as a sidebar, Kirkland Lake was never against Toronto's business. That was a putup job by some environmentalists on Toronto council. If you have no memory then you should at least use Google!

Temiskaming First NAtions chaining themselves to train tracks in protest are enviros on council?

Protestors chaing themselves to trees to blockade the trucks is council?

Methinks google may just help you my friend

[Wild Bill]

Hmm...probably a couple of weeks since I was last in Hamilton. Ok few make the rip the other way. So?

Dont become a Cubs/Astros/Blue Jackets/Chiefs fan then.

I best keep repeating it since you continue to not get it. The Leafs have an opinion, the league has the law,no teams in a certain geographical radius.Hamilton falls in that zone.

And the truth is, Hamilton doesnt have the cash to buy that clause out, let alone carry a team . No corporate will to do so.

The trip length is TO's fault? Wow, didnt know we had such pull to slow traffic!

No, I will mock you incorrect assertions if you keep ragging on everything else.

I actually quite like Hamilton, spent plenty of time there as my uncles and aunts, cousins all hail from there. Went to McMaster for Uni too.

Yea...I must hate it.

Temiskaming First NAtions chaining themselves to train tracks in protest are enviros on council?

Protestors chaing themselves to trees to blockade the trucks is council?

Methinks google may just help you my friend

First Nations in the area do not have veto power over the citizens of Kirkland Lake. Neither do protesters who seem to mostly come from other areas.

You said Kirkland Lake fought against it. I guess it depends on how you define Kirkland Lake. I define it as the townspeople and their municipal government. You obviously have another definition.

And I still haven't heard any specifics as to how Toronto does POSITIVE things for Hamilton! You can stop with the NHL. I am not disputing they have the power. I simply can't see how this is good for Hamilton. You keep dancing all around but never give me answers.

Edited July 26, 2012 by Wild Bill

[guyser]

And I still haven't heard any specifics as to how Toronto does POSITIVE things for Hamilton! You can stop with the NHL. I am not disputing they have the power. I simply can't see how this is good for Hamilton. You keep dancing all around but never give me answers.

Arts and entertainment enrichment. We do make people forget about Hamilton and St Catherines when coming from Niagara.

We send lots of students to Mac?

Didnt know TO was in the business of doing positive things for other cities.

Its kind of a ridiculous question dont you think?

[Wild Bill]

Arts and entertainment enrichment. We do make people forget about Hamilton and St Catherines when coming from Niagara.

We send lots of students to Mac?

Didnt know TO was in the business of doing positive things for other cities.

Its kind of a ridiculous question dont you think?

Have you totally forgotten my original point? I had stated that taxpayers from outside Toronto resent having their taxes going to Toronto needs. YOU replied that Toronto gives them far more than it takes! WHY was always obvious and never asked!

So I ask you just WHAT Toronto does for Hamilton, or any other city, for that matter. You reply basically that since Toronto and some organizations have the power then that's why it happens. I've been trying to get you to answer the original question - What does Toronto do for Hamilton?

Now you are onto some "arts and entertainment" trip. Such as? What could possibly draw Hamiltonians in droves to leave the Hammer and go to Toronto for something they could likely see at Hamilton Place.

Buddies in Bad Times Theatre, perhaps? Or maybe some artsy fartsy opera? If that doesn't attract all us steeltowners I don't know what would!

Then you sum up by saying "Didnt know TO was in the business of doing positive things for other cities." as if I had never asked my original question!

Have a good day, guyser! I think I'll go chat with Waldo. It will be easier on my poor head!

Edited July 26, 2012 by Wild Bill

[MiddleClassCentrist]

I enjoy visiting Toronto coming down from the 400 now and then. I enjoy going the opposite way of people desperately trying to flee the city up to Wasaga and Cottage Country on weekends. Makes it more enjoyable to visit not having to fight the traffic.

It's nice to go down but, only for an overnight stay at most. The living conditions as a guest in Toronto condos are sub par and the parking is ludicrous (Though, still cheaper than using the GO)...

People have this strange emotion that being around important events makes them important too. Mostly subconsciously. I have family members who were talking about how nice it was to be out with all these other people... People who you'll never care about, or talk to, likely shove you out of the way to get by you. They have depression issues too though, so I guess it's about conforming.

They won't shut up about living near the core. They slag where we live when they visit. (I laugh to myself, because they aspire to own an 800-1000sqft concrete box when I own a 1400sq ft semi at half the cost of their box... also within 15 minutes walking distance to groceries, restaurants and coffee shops)) Ironically, they never go to any Toronto events... yet supposedly everything that's going on is what makes it great. I don't get it. Deep down inside I suspect it's more jealously and rationalizing their expensive lifestyle.

To each their own.

Edited July 26, 2012 by MiddleClassCentrist

[guyser]

Have you totally forgotten my original point? I had stated that taxpayers from outside Toronto resent having their taxes going to Toronto needs. YOU replied that Toronto gives them far more than it takes! WHY was always obvious and never asked!

So I ask you just WHAT Toronto does for Hamilton, or any other city, for that matter.

Well pardon me for not spelling out the obvious.

Torontonians pay taxes, those taxes go into a general fund.

When places like Huntsville or Napanee need major infrastructure work, or need social service bills paid they dip into that fund. That money came into being by all ONtarians paying taxes. But the axc base of some locales cannot afford to do things, ergo they get funds to do so.

Torontos tax base provides $16B in taxes and gets $12B back. That leaves $4B left over for the rest of the province. Those whose tax bases are small , and may need a new buildoing road or whatever, get it?

No one has suggested that TO goes around doling out money like some sort of saviour.

Now...do you get it or just going to keep on hating ?.

What does Toronto do for Hamilton?

Its like the gorgeous model standing beside the short fat dumpy one.

Toronto makes Hamilton look good.

Edited July 26, 2012 by guyser

[Wild Bill]

Well pardon me for not spelling out the obvious.

Torontonians pay taxes, those taxes go into a general fund.

When places like Huntsville or Napanee need major infrastructure work, or need social service bills paid they dip into that fund. That money came into being by all ONtarians paying taxes. But the axc base of some locales cannot afford to do things, ergo they get funds to do so.

Torontos tax base provides $16B in taxes and gets $12B back. That leaves $4B left over for the rest of the province. Those whose tax bases are small , and may need a new buildoing road or whatever, get it?

No one has suggested that TO goes around doling out money like some sort of saviour.

Now...do you get it or just going to keep on hating ?.

Its like the gorgeous model standing beside the short fat dumpy one.

Toronto makes Hamilton look good.

How could I not help liking Toronto more if you keep slagging Hamilton?

Man, what a salesman you are, guyser! A true Dale Carnegie graduate!

[Boges]

Why has there been thread shift away from the fact that Dalton McGuinty is a huge jerk.

[guyser]

How could I not help liking Toronto more if you keep slagging Hamilton?

Oh please spare us the wounded heart .

You have slagged TO non-stop around here. And frankly, thats fine but when I jokingly give a little back....well look out.

The truth is is that I like Hamilton for many reasons, generally the people. In many ways the problem w Hamilton is the visual most get as they pass the bay on the QEW. No one can say that its attractive, unless you are a steel baron and see only money in the slag piles.

Man, what a salesman you are, guyser! A true Dale Carnegie graduate!

I appreciate that, thanks.

[guyser]

Why has there been thread shift away from the fact that Dalton McGuinty is a huge jerk.

Cuz its well known?

Do we need to discuss the fact that water is wet?

[login]

While strick gun control is the only solution such as check points, scanners, and rfid tagging of new guns produced, with tags placed inside the metal, these things are not feasible. The tagging of old guns is another step, butthe costs are just not feasible.

Distributing body armour or selling it seems a far more proactive measure 5 million in body armour protects perhaps as many as 25000 people. Make that available to anyone who feels threatened, maybe create a few jobs. Just armour everyone. atleast bystandards will be greater protected, and people who pick it up on request may be a lead for investigation, afterall why is this person afraid for their life, something going on around them?

Localized scanners and checkpoints are the way of the future, what you had at just airports will find its way into malls and busy commercial centers. It is only a matter of time and ionized radiation prevention.

I personally support that people should be able to buy guns like corndogs, cause the people getting shot either 1. deserve it, or 2. were victims.

I think death is over rated as such a bad thing, people with their faith in order shouldn't fear death or think it a bad thing, it is gods will.

But more police will do little, what they need is more new things because they can't stop it, and more police just put more people with guns on the street, youcan do that by just making a program called "train to stop" where people train to be hitmen and assasins and concealed carry for the heck of it and civic duty to take out people if they start shooting - save the $100,000 in salary costs for each one of them, and just get people who like to carry a gun and shoot do it cause its fun.

Take this for instance, http://stream.wsj.com/story/london-olympics-2012/SS-2-13789/SS-2-37279/ or BC's security infrastructure and spy cams left by the VANOG

Edited July 28, 2012 by login

[Guest Derek L]

While strick gun control is the only solution such as check points, scanners, and rfid tagging of new guns produced, with tags placed inside the metal, these things are not feasible. The tagging of old guns is another step, butthe costs are just not feasible.

Distributing body armour or selling it seems a far more proactive measure 5 million in body armour protects perhaps as many as 25000 people. Make that available to anyone who feels threatened, maybe create a few jobs. Just armour everyone. atleast bystandards will be greater protected, and people who pick it up on request may be a lead for investigation, afterall why is this person afraid for their life, something going on around them?

Localized scanners and checkpoints are the way of the future, what you had at just airports will find its way into malls and busy commercial centers. It is only a matter of time and ionized radiation prevention.

I personally support that people should be able to buy guns like corndogs, cause the people getting shot either 1. deserve it, or 2. were victims.

I think death is over rated as such a bad thing, people with their faith in order shouldn't fear death or think it a bad thing, it is gods will.

But more police will do little, what they need is more new things because they can't stop it, and more police just put more people with guns on the street, youcan do that by just making a program called "train to stop" where people train to be hitmen and assasins and concealed carry for the heck of it and civic duty to take out people if they start shooting - save the $100,000 in salary costs for each one of them, and just get people who like to carry a gun and shoot do it cause its fun.

Take this for instance, http://stream.wsj.com/story/london-olympics-2012/SS-2-13789/SS-2-37279/ or BC's security infrastructure and spy cams left by the VANOG

William Ashley, is that you?

[Guest icbones]

why do you have handgun(s)? For what purpose?

Why do you want to know.