DND mess

[waldo]

sole source? You mean when DND tailor's the requirements towards a target source?

Exactly. Simple concept hey?

exactly. Simple concept. Highlighting DND repeatedly circumvents Public Works' own sole source provisions with the ACAN is... exacting! It is... a simple concept... intended to bypass legitimate competitive tendering.

Public Works has very precisely worded provisions for sole source procurement... DND simply circumvents those provisions by drafting criteria to selectively target the vendor/item they desire (ala the Advance Contract Award Notice (ACAN))... to the exclusion of a bona fide competitive process. See JSFail F-35... see your aforementioned Boeing C-17 Globemaster. As you say, 'simple concept, really'!

You’re suggesting DND skirted some rules with the Globemaster purchase?

skirted rules? Of course not... as I said, they circumvented one of the key rules of Public Works sole source provisioning by, again, tailoring the requirements to the exclusion of all but one target candidate. Apparently, you have no problem/difficulty with this. Oh, wait... let me play your silly buggar routine: "You're suggesting you have no problem/difficulty with this?"

[Moonlight Graham]

And the DND scandals just seem to continue!...http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/07/20/nl-sar-helicopter-labrador-fishing-720.html

Labrador MP and federal cabinet minister Peter Penashue says he's disappointed that the Department of National Defence permitted a military helicopter to be used for a fishing trip in Labrador.

"I think that it sends the wrong message," said Penashue. "But at the same time I recognize that we hadn't put anyone at risk." "It doesn't help the image, particularly with what we just went through with search and rescue on Labrador."

A photo posted on Facebook on shows a yellow search and rescue helicopter parked on the shore with five people in the water. They appear to be fishing.

This time it wasn't the defence minister getting a lift, however; it was members of the search and rescue squadron.

Best part:

"Because 444 Combat Support Squadron is not a primary search and rescue squadron, their mandated standby posture was not impacted by activity at No Name Lake," Bowen wrote.

He also points out that learning fishing skills is part of the squadron's survival training.

[waldo]

of course, on some levels, DND is only as good as the BS Harper Conservatives are feeding it!

Tories knew last year shopping list of military equipment was ‘unaffordable,’ documents show

The Conservative government knew as far back as last year that Defence Department budget cuts had made its multi-billion-dollar shopping list of military equipment “unaffordable”.

As a result, National Defence officials have been urging the government since May 2011 to push the reset button and re-evaluate “the level of ambition” for its vaunted plan to rebuild the Canadian Forces.

what? Harper Conservatives intentionally building a false reputation for supporting the military - go figure!

[cybercoma]

You’re suggesting DND skirted some rules with the Globemaster purchase?

If nothing else, they're completely incompetent.

And your absurdly jingoistic ideologies wants to give them a blank chequebook.

[Argus]

skirted rules? Of course not... as I said, they circumvented one of the key rules of Public Works sole source provisioning by, again, tailoring the requirements to the exclusion of all but one target candidate. Apparently, you have no problem/difficulty with this. Oh, wait... let me play your silly buggar routine: "You're suggesting you have no problem/difficulty with this?"

I certainly have no issues with it at all -- provided it works. If I was appointed DND minister tomorrow I'd go see what trucks the Americans and British are using, then put in an order for a few hundred of them. No studies. No bidding. Just do it.

Six years and still no trucks? Utterly ludicrous. I decided in January I wanted a new car. I had some idea what I was looking for. I studied the specs on all the cars, crossovers, really, that met my criteria. Then I narrowed the list down and went to see a few dealers, did some test drives, negotiated a price, and within about two months I had my car.

It's not that complicated!

[waldo]

I certainly have no issues with it at all -- provided it works. If I was appointed DND minister tomorrow I'd go see what trucks the Americans and British are using, then put in an order for a few hundred of them. No studies. No bidding. Just do it.

'provided it works', leaves a ton of wiggle room, on so many levels... and you'd possibly suffer the consequences of improper decisions previously made... or ignoring shifting requirements... or technology advances... or competitive source leveraging, or etc., etc., etc.

Six years and still no trucks? Utterly ludicrous. I decided in January I wanted a new car. I had some idea what I was looking for. I studied the specs on all the cars, crossovers, really, that met my criteria. Then I narrowed the list down and went to see a few dealers, did some test drives, negotiated a price, and within about two months I had my car.

It's not that complicated!

clearly, I'm not even attempting to give credence to the excuses lined up... but your personal car purchase analogy doesn't come anywhere near the practicalities involved. Excuses that include that the Harper Conservative government itself previously stopped and restarted the procurement given changing requirements. As I alluded to earlier, amongst other influences, DND is emphasizing shifting budgetary constraints were a significant factor in this latest 'shutdown'. As I said, Harper Conservatives intentionally building a false reputation for supporting the military - go figure!

[Guest Derek L]

exactly. Simple concept. Highlighting DND repeatedly circumvents Public Works' own sole source provisions with the ACAN is... exacting! It is... a simple concept... intended to bypass legitimate competitive tendering.

Whatever works………The RCAF had Globemasters flying in little over a year from the word go……….Contrast with the Sea King replacement.

skirted rules? Of course not... as I said, they circumvented one of the key rules of Public Works sole source provisioning by, again, tailoring the requirements to the exclusion of all but one target candidate. Apparently, you have no problem/difficulty with this. Oh, wait... let me play your silly buggar routine: "You're suggesting you have no problem/difficulty with this?"

You say that like it’s a bad thing………Of course DND tailors requirements……..Who’s better equipped to define said requirements to deliver on (elected) Government policy?

[bush_cheney2004]

Whatever works………The RCAF had Globemasters flying in little over a year from the word go……….Contrast with the Sea King replacement.

No kidding...they even cut in line to get somebody else's Globemasters!

You say that like it’s a bad thing………Of course DND tailors requirements……..Who’s better equipped to define said requirements to deliver on (elected) Government policy?

Peacemongers?

[waldo]

exactly. Simple concept. Highlighting DND repeatedly circumvents Public Works' own sole source provisions with the ACAN is... exacting! It is... a simple concept... intended to bypass legitimate competitive tendering.

Whatever works

good to know you don't recognize and could care less about Public Works. But...change is in the works, hey?

skirted rules? Of course not... as I said, they circumvented one of the key rules of Public Works sole source provisioning by, again, tailoring the requirements to the exclusion of all but one target candidate. Apparently, you have no problem/difficulty with this. Oh, wait... let me play your silly buggar routine: "You're suggesting you have no problem/difficulty with this?"

You say that like it’s a bad thing………Of course DND tailors requirements……..Who’s better equipped to define said requirements to deliver on (elected) Government policy?

I said, 'tailoring to the exclusion of any but the preferred vendor/product... you know... ginning up the procurement process! But... as I said, change is in the works. Best you talk to the Harper hand, hey?

Ottawa eyes plan to loosen DND’s grip on military procurement

The Harper government, eager to fix Canada’s chronically dysfunctional system for buying military equipment, is considering changes that would strip the Department of National Defence of significant responsibility in steering major purchases.

Stephen Harper and staff in the Prime Minister’s Office are determined to reform the way Canada buys military equipment after a string of troubled purchases, from F-35 fighter jets to supply ships to combat vehicles, have left the impression the Conservatives are failing to effectively manage this spending.

One option under serious study is the creation of a permanent secretariat, reporting to the Department of Public Works, that would take responsibility for all major military procurements above a certain dollar value

, a Department of National Defence source said.

Such a shift would signal the Harper government has lost faith in National Defence’s ability to safeguard the public purse.

It would also represent an important reduction in DND’s traditional role in drawing up specifications for big expenditures: in effect, the designing and selecting of the options for purchase.

oh noooos, hey Derek L... will DND lose it's sandbox? Ya think?

[Guest Derek L]

good to know you don't recognize and could care less about Public Works. But...change is in the works, hey?

I said, 'tailoring to the exclusion of any but the preferred vendor/product... you know... ginning up the procurement process! But... as I said, change is in the works. Best you talk to the Harper hand, hey?

Ottawa eyes plan to loosen DND’s grip on military procurement

oh noooos, hey Derek L... will DND lose it's sandbox? Ya think?

I’m glad you’re supportive of the Government’s approach……..More Government……And with said new fangled approach, once it if it selects the F-35 am I to understand that you’ll support or at least be consigned to it’s decision reached?

[waldo]

I’m glad you’re supportive of the Government’s approach……..More Government……And with said new fangled approach, once it if it selects the F-35 am I to understand that you’ll support or at least be consigned to it’s decision reached?

reading you so flummoxed is gold, real gold!

[Guest Derek L]

reading you so flummoxed is gold, real gold!

Reading you support the CPC is Platinum

[TwoDucks]

You say that like it’s a bad thing………Of course DND tailors requirements……..Who’s better equipped to define said requirements to deliver on (elected) Government policy?

There's nothing wrong with tailoring requirements to meet a role. However, if you read the rest of the sentence you bolded, you'd realize he was referring to tailoring the requirements to meet an already decided on product.

[Guest Derek L]

And the DND scandals just seem to continue!...http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/07/20/nl-sar-helicopter-labrador-fishing-720.html

Best part:

You've never heard of National Public Service Week?

Edited July 22, 2012 by Derek L

[Guest Derek L]

There's nothing wrong with tailoring requirements to meet a role. However, if you read the rest of the sentence you bolded, you'd realize he was referring to tailoring the requirements to meet an already decided on product.

And your point? In the case of the Globemasters, there are currently no other western strategic air lifters in production…….

[waldo]

And your point? In the case of the Globemasters, there are currently no other western strategic air lifters in production…….

what's that about you accepting to a decades+ wait on the production of the over-budget, overdue and over-hyped JSFail F-35? You're such a cliche!

[waldo]

Reading you support the CPC is Platinum

like I said, you're so flummoxed you resort to making shyte up.

[Guest Derek L]

what's that about you accepting to a decades+ wait on the production of the over-budget, overdue and over-hyped JSFail F-35? You're such a cliche!

What other aircraft will be in production in the 2020s?

[Guest Derek L]

like I said, you're so flummoxed you resort to making shyte up.

So you're not supporting moves made by the CPC now?

[waldo]

What other aircraft will be in production in the 2020s?

touchy, hey? Picking your spots, hey? If you could wait a decade+ on the JSFail F-35s failed production delivery... what's preventing you from accepting a wait on a properly sourced "air lifter".

but let's not loose an opportunity to really zero in on the master Harper Conservative strategy in regards those C-17s, hey? Force projection - hee haw!

For the past two years, Canada has been quietly working to establish small military outposts in places such as the Caribbean, East Africa, Europe and Southeast Asia.

Now newly released Department of Defence documents show these operational support hubs are centered on a plan to deploy the military on more overseas missions - including combat and projecting Canadian power - than under previous governments.

Chief of Defence Staff Gen. Walter Natynczyk authorized the establishment of the operational support hubs in up to seven locations around the world on May 13, 2010.

A directive signed by Natynczyk and obtained by Postmedia News says the initiative was launched to improve the Canadian Forces' "ability to project combat power/security assistance and Canadian influence rapidly and flexibly anywhere in the world."

It adds that the ability to deploy and sustain combat forces is not only contingent on strong logistical networks, but is also "an essential instrument of national power and should continue to be exploited to attain national objectives."

The directive traces the operational support hub initiative directly back to 2007, when the Harper government acquired four massive C-17 Globemaster military transport planes.

"The decision to acquire four C-17s (CC177) for strategic airlift indicates the government's intention to utilize the CF more extensively off continent," it reads.

Edited July 22, 2012 by waldo

[Guest Derek L]

touchy, hey? Picking your spots, hey? If you could wait a decade+ on the JSFail F-35s failed production delivery... what's preventing you from accepting a wait on a properly sourced "air lifter".

but let's not loose an opportunity to really zero in on the master Harper Conservative strategy in regards those C-17s, hey? Force projection - hee haw!

What alternative airlifter?

Clearly four Globemasters will allow Harper’s Canada to rule the world

Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t you suggest that Canada should forgo jet fighters and concentrate on “transports”……….Waldo, I never would have likened you to be such an Imperialist

Edited July 22, 2012 by Derek L

[waldo]

What alternative airlifter?

the same airlifter's Canada has had no problem renting; you know, the Ruskie ones! Hey now, didja know... long-term leasing is also a viable alternative - in fact, it was one of the options seriously considered. And here I thought you were so tapped in!

Clearly four Globemasters will allow Harper’s Canada to rule the world

apparently so, if, per the article I linked, you read the extracts from Chief of Defence Staff Gen. Walter Natynczyk's directive. Feel free to comment on the directive itself, hey?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t you suggest that Canada should forgo jet fighters and concentrate on “transports”……….Waldo, I never would have likened you to be such an Imperialist

no - I've never spoken definitively; when asked about alternatives, I've offered that as one of the possibles. I've also asked you several times if that 'transport role' would satisfy Canada's NATO commitments... you know, just another one of those repeated questions you continue to ignore run from.

[Guest Derek L]

the same airlifter's Canada has had no problem renting; you know, the Ruskie ones! Hey now, didja know... long-term leasing is also a viable alternative - in fact, it was one of the options seriously considered. And here I thought you were so tapped in!

The availability of spare parts (namely engines) for Russian aircraft (measured in the hundreds) is not as extensive as American(measured in thousands)………..And leasing them? See the performance of DART during ‘04 Tsunami……….

apparently so, if, per the article I linked, you read the extracts from Chief of Defence Staff Gen. Walter Natynczyk's directive. Feel free to comment on the directive itself, hey?

Where does he suggest an increase in overseas deployments? I read it as preparing contingences.....

no - I've never spoken definitively; when asked about alternatives, I've offered that as one of the possibles. I've also asked you several times if that 'transport role' would satisfy Canada's NATO commitments... you know, just another one of those repeated questions you continue to ignore run from.

Regardless of NATO, they certainly wouldn’t meet our NORAD commitments.

[waldo]

The availability of spare parts (namely engines) for Russian aircraft (measured in the hundreds) is not as extensive as American(measured in thousands)………..And leasing them? See the performance of DART during ‘04 Tsunami……….

you asked for an alternative - I gave you one. A tightly negotiated long-term lease would be one that ensures an availability of spare parts and service provisioning. Like I said, I thought you were actually tapped in on all this military stuff - go figure.

Where does he suggest an increase in overseas deployments? I read it as preparing contingences.....

ya, preparing for 'force projection'. Just what does Canada need with 7 overseas military 'outposts'?

... but it doesn't necessarily make sense for the Canadian Forces to be more expeditionary given domestic concerns such as the Arctic.

"One could say that the CF should pay greater attention to Canada and North America," he said, "considering that these are ostensibly their primary missions."

Regardless of NATO, they certainly wouldn’t meet our NORAD commitments.

notwithstanding the Cold War anachronism that NORAD is, just what are those NORAD commitments... exactly? As I said the last time you floated the NORAD balloon, given technology advances, just what value does the U.S. see/have in Canada anymore... other than, as I said, being able to keep it's lil' poodle on a tight leash?

[Guest Derek L]

you asked for an alternative - I gave you one. A tightly negotiated long-term lease would be one that ensures an availability of spare parts and service provisioning. Like I said, I thought you were actually tapped in on all this military stuff - go figure.

A “tight deal” with the Russians………Ask the Indians and Chinese what they think about “tight Russian deals”

ya, preparing for 'force projection'. Just what does Canada need with 7 overseas military 'outposts'?

Are those the Chief of Defence Staff’s words……..moving the goal posts Waldo?

notwithstanding the Cold War anachronism that NORAD is, just what are those NORAD commitments... exactly? As I said the last time you floated the NORAD balloon, given technology advances, just what value does the U.S. see/have in Canada anymore... other than, as I said, being able to keep it's lil' poodle on a tight leash?

http://www.norad.mil/about/CANR.html

The mission of the Canadian NORAD Region (CANR) is to provide aerospace surveillance, identification, control and warning for the defence of Canada and North America.

Headquartered at 1 Canadian Air Division in Winnipeg, Manitoba, CANR executes a variety of tasks to defend Canadian airspace, including identifying and tracking all aircraft entering Canadian airspace, exercising operational command and control of all air defence forces in CANR and operations in support of other government departments and agencies.

CANR is one of three North American Aerospace Defence Command (NORAD) regions. The other two subordinate regional headquarters are located at Elmendorf Air Force Base, Alaska and Tyndall Air Force Base, Florida. NORAD is the bi-national Canada- U.S. command that continuously provides worldwide detection, validation and warning of a ballistic missile attack on North America and maintains continental detection, validation, warning and aerospace control of air-breathing threats to North America, to include peacetime alert levels and appropriate aerospace defense measures to respond to hostile actions against North America.

Since the terrorist attacks of 2001, CANR has been heavily committed to Operation Noble Eagle (ONE), NORAD’s ongoing internal air defence mission.

1 Canadian Air Division is responsible for providing CANR with combat-ready air forces to meet Canada’s commitment to the defence of North America and maintain the sovereignty of North American airspace.

NORAD assets are positioned strategically throughout Canada and the U.S. and can respond to any air sovereignty threat in a matter of minutes. CANR CF-18 Hornet fighter aircraft are on continuous alert to respond to any potential aerial threat to the safety of Canada and Canadians.

Clear enough?