The NDP’s hidden agenda....

[Guest Derek L]

To continue from a sidebar in this thread:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=21138&st=75

Readers Digest, why does the NDP ask potential members to identify with a given category:

https://secure.ndp.ca/membership_e.php

And what are the NDP really about, Democratic Socialism (As it's states from their own constitution from last year) or as Cybercoma suggests, social democracy? What’s the difference? Are the NDP just mincing words in deference to their (Democratic) Socialist, hidden agenda………..

http://xfer.ndp.ca/2011/2011-constitution/2011-11-CONSTITUTION-ENG.pdf

Edited July 9, 2012 by Derek L

[dre]

Readers Digest, why does the NDP ask potential members to identify with a given category:

They dont. Those checkboxes are options you can check if want to receive newsletters and information about issues that effect those demographics.

Please indicate if you identify as part of one of the following equity seeking groups and would like to receive mail on relevant issues.

You are only supposed to check one of those boxes if you want to be on one of the mailing lists.

Edited July 9, 2012 by dre

[Guest Derek L]

They dont. Those checkboxes are options you can check if want to receive newsletters and information about issues that effect those demographics.

You are only supposed to check one of those boxes if you want to be on one of the mailing lists.

As I said in the other thread, above:

Please indicate if you identify as part of one of the following equity seeking groups and would like to receive mail on relevant issues.

They ask if one is a union member, under or unemployed and under 26.

As to the below demographics, why wouldn't a member be interested in all topics?

Does the NDP have no special interest in middle age, white males?

[bush_cheney2004]

...As to the below demographics, why wouldn't a member be interested in all topics?

Does the NDP have no special interest in middle age, white males?

Right...where is the box to check for non-union, visible majority males over age 26 and not in a labor union or disabled?

[Guest Derek L]

Right...where is the box to check for non-union, visible majority males over age 26 and not in a labor union or disabled and a recreational gun owner ?

FTFY

[Guest Derek L]

Well, in the other thread, we looked at the CPC membership form, with no demographic information requests.

https://secure.conservative.ca/donation.aspx?cmp=ml〈=en

And like the CPC, the Greens don't seem to care either:

https://www.greenparty.ca/civicrm/contribute/transact?reset=1&id=1&source=NC.W.UH

And even the old Liberal party only asks (optional like the NDP of course) if one is First Nations:

https://action.liberal.ca/en/membership

Seriously, is one to believe these other three parties don’t care about these other demographics? Or does the NDP just really care………..

I thought socialism was all about treating everyone equal, with no class distinctions……….Cleary, the NDP does make distinctions…..

[cybercoma]

As was pointed out in the other thread, CIMS keeps track of those things without asking the person applying for membership whether or not they personally identify with being categorized that way. As has also already been pointed out, it's optional whether or not you select any of those things and the purpose is clearly outlined on the page.

The democratic socialism is a hangover from the days when the NDP was fighting with Communists. The Communists believed that cooperation was fruitless and that the only proper course of action politically was a violent overthrow of the government and economic system. The socialists wanted to distinguish themselves from the Communists by outlining emphatically that they do not believe in violence and that the NDP would not support violence or anything less than full cooperation with the democratic system and institutions already in place. The preamble that you point to as a sign of the NDP's "hidden agenda" was actually put in place to fight against the claim that NDP has a hidden agenda of violence towards our government and institutions. That is why I said you obviously know very little about the history of the NDP and the CCF. It was borne out of the social gospel and religious types that wanted everyone to work together and be charitable to the downtrodden.

Derek, that's all I'm going to say on the topic because I've seen your MO before. I will not get sucked into going around and around in circles with you as waldo does. It's obvious you believe you've uncovered some super-secret hidden agenda of the NDP and knowing how you post, there isn't anything anyone's going to say that will change your mind.

Edited July 10, 2012 by cybercoma

[Moonlight Graham]

With all the "hidden agenda" talk for the CPC, it's only fair to wonder if the NDP has one too. It's pretty clear they would steer the country to left, likely more so than the Liberals if they got a majority.

[cybercoma]

With all the "hidden agenda" talk for the CPC, it's only fair to wonder if the NDP has one too. It's pretty clear they would steer the country to left, likely more so than the Liberals if they got a majority.

How far left is that really? We're talking about a party that has proposed a 0% small business tax rate.

[kraychik]

Discrimination based on race, gender, age, disability, religion, sexual orientation, and ethnicity is a staple of the contemporary left. For every racist on the right, there are several racists on the left.

[kraychik]

How far left is that really? We're talking about a party that has proposed a 0% small business tax rate.

Show me that proposal. That is a complete lie and you're certainly ignoring relevant context.

[Evening Star]

Show me that proposal. That is a complete lie and you're certainly ignoring relevant context.

The federal party's 2011 platform proposed reducing the small business rate from 11% to 9%. Manitoba's provincial NDP governments has reduced the small business tax rate to 0%. This is a matter of record and easy to look up on official sites. NS's NDP government has been reducing the small business rate as well. In the AB provincial election, the provincial NDP proposed 0 small business tax.

As far as I can tell, this thread is asking (at least) three distinct questions with zero to show that anything about the NDP's agenda is hidden.

[Guest Derek L]

With all the "hidden agenda" talk for the CPC, it's only fair to wonder if the NDP has one too. It's pretty clear they would steer the country to left, likely more so than the Liberals if they got a majority.

Exactly, they are a “government in waiting” and we truly know nothing about their socialist roots, nor their patronage of unions…………We have the precedent of past Liberal and Conservative Governments to look at how they govern, but no such history associated with the NDP.

I find it ironic that NDP supporters are quick to deflect criticism questioning of their party‘s ideals all the while pointing to the other guy………

What are they hiding?

[TimG]

The federal party's 2011 platform proposed reducing the small business rate from 11% to 9%.

Ask a small business person which is more important: a lower tax rate or a lower minimum wage and/or environment laws that make it more expensive to run a business?

They will almost all tell you that lower tax rate means nothing if they cant make money so any gains that they might get from a 0% tax rate under the NDP are more than wiped out by real costs imposed by the NDP agenda when it comes environmental laws and minimum wages.

[Moonlight Graham]

How far left is that really? We're talking about a party that has proposed a 0% small business tax rate.

And what about taxes on big businesses?

The NDP's raison d'etre is to apply the principles of democratic socialism to Canadian government and public affairs. That's straight out of the 1st sentence of preamble of the NDP's constitution.

The NDP are further left than the Liberals, clearly. But not boogie-man communists some claim they are.

[kraychik]

The federal party's 2011 platform proposed reducing the small business rate from 11% to 9%. Manitoba's provincial NDP governments has reduced the small business tax rate to 0%. This is a matter of record and easy to look up on official sites. NS's NDP government has been reducing the small business rate as well. In the AB provincial election, the provincial NDP proposed 0 small business tax.

As far as I can tell, this thread is asking (at least) three distinct questions with zero to show that anything about the NDP's agenda is hidden.

Reducing the small business tax rates at the provincial level to zero is good news in an of itself, but doesn't tell us a lot without looking at the entirety of the provincial taxes. In other words, there's missing context. Did provincial taxes compose a larger or smaller share of Manitoba's GDP after the NDP implemented its policies?

To address your last statement, I see nothing secretive about the NDP whatsoever. The NDP is clearly very candid about its socialistic leanings, its subscription to the class warfare political and historical narrative, its animosity towards the perceived rich, and opposition to individual liberty in both the social and economic spheres of life. The NDP is very transparent, and I don't see anything secretive about their leftist agenda. They are exactly what they appear to be, and they are exactly who they say they are.

Edited July 10, 2012 by kraychik

[cybercoma]

Exactly, they are a “government in waiting” and we truly know nothing about their socialist roots, nor their patronage of unions…………We have the precedent of past Liberal and Conservative Governments to look at how they govern, but no such history associated with the NDP.

I find it ironic that NDP supporters are quick to deflect criticism questioning of their party‘s ideals all the while pointing to the other guy………

What are they hiding?

Unlike the LPC and CPC, the federal NDP and provincial NDP are the same party. Look up their records.

Edited July 10, 2012 by cybercoma

[cybercoma]

Ask a small business person which is more important: a lower tax rate or a lower minimum wage and/or environment laws that make it more expensive to run a business?

When it comes to the environment, either regulations are in place and the businesses pay for their own messes or the companies externalize their costs and the government taxes the crap out of them in order to clean up their messes for them. For someone on the right, I would think that personal accountability for these businesses would be most important to you and you would be averse to taxation; thus, I would expect you to support regulations over the alternative.

[Evening Star]

Exactly, they are a “government in waiting” and we truly know nothing about their socialist roots, nor their patronage of unions…………

Seriously? We know nothing about these things?

[kraychik]

Ask a small business person which is more important: a lower tax rate or a lower minimum wage and/or environment laws that make it more expensive to run a business?

They will almost all tell you that lower tax rate means nothing if they cant make money so any gains that they might get from a 0% tax rate under the NDP are more than wiped out by real costs imposed by the NDP agenda when it comes environmental laws and minimum wages.

Evening Star and cybercoma are both refusing the acknowledge that there is context here that is relevant and missing. I do not follow Manitoba politics, so I am painfully ignorant about this. However, I do not believe for a second that the NDP lowered the tax rate on small businesses to zero without taxing them somewhere else. If I'm right, it's a wise political move so that leftists can spout the talking point of the NDP provincial leadership lowering the tax burden on small businesses, while ignoring other avenues where they drove up costs for these very same businesses (minimum wage regulation, environmental regulations, licensing, safety inspections, and so forth).

If you take ten dollars out of my pocket and then put back five, don't go tell everyone you put five dollars in my pocket while ignoring the ten dollars you initially stole.

[kraychik]

Seriously? We know nothing about these things?

You're right, we do know everything about these things. Does Derek L really not realise that the NDP is completely transparent with its socialist agenda? Yes, they may hide some trivial things like their sympathies for Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood, and dictators like Castro and Chavez, but on balance they're pretty straightforward about their ideology and intentions.

[cybercoma]

Seriously? We know nothing about these things?

Visionaries, Crusaders, and Firebrands: The Idealistic Canadians Who Built the NDP by Lynn Gidluck is an elementary start to learning about the history of the NDP. Anyone that doesn't know anything about 'these' things just isn't looking.

[TimG]

the businesses pay for their own messes or the companies externalize their costs and the government taxes the crap out of them in order to clean up their messes for them.

What you are forgetting is there is a lot of voodoo science behind these so-called cost calculations (the "costs" of GHG emissions is the biggest example). So while I do believe in a personal responsibility - I don't believe in bureaucrats imposing arbitrary costs based on ideology driven science. Edited July 10, 2012 by TimG

[kraychik]

Visionaries, Crusaders, and Firebrands: The Idealistic Canadians Who Built the NDP by Lynn Gidluck is an elementary start to learning about the history of the NDP. Anyone that doesn't know anything about 'these' things just isn't looking.

I got this result after doing a Google search for "NDP communism". This was the second search result. You're right, the ideological leanings of the NDP are no secret, and thanks to the internet's shattering of the old media as the vanguard of the left, it's more difficult for people to hide who they are then ever before.

NDP treasury board critic Mathieu Ravignat’s communist past highlighted by Tories

[cybercoma]

they may hide some trivial things like their sympathies for Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood, and dictators like Castro and Chavez

Is your goal to troll nonsense and absurdity? If the NDP as a party had sympathies for those things, how on earth would that be trivial? That's a rhetorical question. I don't really need you to reply with more ridiculous flaming.