Assange not so big on justice when he's the object

[jbg]

He says he's concerned that Sweden would extradite him to the US, where he could be charged with informing people of the truth...(a terrible crime, even as officials and their supporters themselves use wikileaks' information for their own talking points).

The crime isn't telling the truth. It's gathering information that's legally classified. And then disseminating it. One of the few exceptions to free speech is putting soldiers or officials in imminent danger.

Or...he could be simply trying to avoid the sexual assault charges.

Both seem possible.

It could even be both simultaneously.

We can only speculate, of course. Who really knows?

Either way, actions have consequences. Why is Assange an exception?

[Guest American Woman]

Either way, actions have consequences. Why is Assange an exception?

I couldn't agree more.

[Argus]

Plerase. Your entire arguemnt is premised on the inherent decency and honest arguments of two especially violently imperial, lawless states (the US and UK) as well as on Sweden's..

When you preface a post with this amount of utter drivel it's difficult to even take you seriously. You're floundering around in crazed fury that anyone would challenge your preconceptions about your heroic little hacker boy Assange. And yes, I freely admit that I don't think much of hackers, nor do I think much of people who eagerly invade others privacy to spy out anything embarrassing they can steal and reveal to others.

In any event, if you so disapprove of western nations and their capitalism and 'lawlessness', perhaps Cuba is the better place for you. I'm sure you'll heartily approve of the number of laws available there. And I suspect their politics will be much more to your liking, as well.

[Argus]

The UK would not go though this much effort to get him if it was not political in nature, it's just that simple. What is shocking is the number of countries that are keen on arresting him.

The UK has a valid request for extradition. It behaves in exactly the same fashion in all such cases. The only difference with this one is the hysteria of the world's leftist hacks who see their cherished symbol of defiance to the great Satan being threatened.

[Argus]

I dont think Mr Assange will be in front of a Swedish court any time soon, on these trumped up charges or any other. My guess is that he will spend YEARS in that embassy.

If I was the British, I'd simply PNG the entire embassy staff, and break relations with Ecuador (not like they need to have any sort of relations with an insignificant flyspeck country like that). Then the embassy is no longer an embassy and they can simply walk in and take the idiot.

[jbg]

If I was the British, I'd simply PNG the entire embassy staff, and break relations with Ecuador (not like they need to have any sort of relations with an insignificant flyspeck country like that). Then the embassy is no longer an embassy and they can simply walk in and take the idiot.

What does "PNG" mean, persona non grata?

[Guest American Woman]

The UK has a valid request for extradition. It behaves in exactly the same fashion in all such cases. The only difference with this one is the hysteria of the world's leftist hacks who see their cherished symbol of defiance to the great Satan being threatened.

Exactly. Anything Assange says is taken as the gospel truth and all must be held accountable - but when the charges are directed at him, he's a victim - who evidently doesn't have to face any consequences. What a crock. I used to respect him, but to me, this shows just how admirable he is.

[jbg]

Exactly. Anything Assange says is taken as the gospel truth and all must be held accountable - but when the charges are directed at him, he's a victim - who evidently doesn't have to face any consequences. What a crock. I used to respect him, but to me, this shows just how admirable he is.

I don't know that Assange is necessarily a liar. I just think there is some need for privacy in intergovernmental communications and what he is doing is malicious.

[Guest American Woman]

I don't know that Assange is necessarily a liar. I just think there is some need for privacy in intergovernmental communications and what he is doing is malicious.

I didn't say he was a liar. In fact, I said I used to respect him. What I was pointing out is the belief of everything he says compared to the disbelief of anything that's said about him - the idea that those he's 'blown the whistle on' should be held responsible while he should be protected from his accusers. I also agree that there is some need for privacy in intergovernmental communications, as you said - I think I'm realizing that more than I used to.

Edited August 19, 2012 by American Woman

[eyeball]

I just think there is some need for privacy in intergovernmental communications and what he is doing is malicious.

I think there is more need for transparency in intergovernmental communications and the maliciousness of what is being done to him only underscores why.

[Guest Derek L]

If they had enough (any?) evidence to charge him, I'm sure they would.

Not sure if this article was posted earlier, but it makes for an interesting read...

Guardian Article - Allegations & Timeline

I read your article, and I’m still understanding as that Assange allegedly had some “surprise sex” with a couple of Swedish girls, said girls go to the police, police don’t even jail Assange but the Swedish prosecutors want to question him (Perhaps his side of the story?), word of the alleged incident gets leaked, Assange blames the Americans/CIA/Pentagon, then Assange leaves the country for the United Kingdom. The Swedes apply for a international arrest warrant. Assange refuses to return to Sweden for fear of being sent to the United States.

Meanwhile, the Americans don’t have an indictment against Assange, be it for “cyber-terrorism” or espionage etc, for if they did, the Americans would have had Scotland Yard or MI-5 pick him up when he arrived……….Meanwhile, well in the UK, Assange loses an extradition appeal then buggers off to the Ecuadorian embassy and blames his plight on the United States.

Am I missing anything?

[Guest Derek L]

What does "PNG" mean, persona non grata?

Sure does.

[waldo]

I think there is more need for transparency in intergovernmental communications and the maliciousness of what is being done to him only underscores why.

Sure does.

[eyeball]

Am I missing anything?

Your outrage at the ability of Assange to invade the precious secrecy of the smoke filled backrooms of our governments?

[waldo]

Your outrage at the ability of Assange to invade the precious secrecy of the smoke filled backrooms of our governments?

but... the esteemed MLW member is transparent... his profile openly projects on one of his interests: "Drinking scotch in the backroom of the old boys club."

[Guest Derek L]

Your outrage at the ability of Assange to invade the precious secrecy of the smoke filled backrooms of our governments?

Where did I express outrage? If anything, leaving Assange “free” and able to go about his regular day-to-day brings all his supporters, with those fancy Guy Fawkes masks, out of their parents basements and easier for police & security services to identify……….

As I’ve said, I’m waiting for someone to demonstrate though that Assange truly is wanted by the United States, and that the United States is behind Assange’s alleged assault of two women………Even in the linked article:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange-sweden

The co-ordinator of the WikiLeaks group in Stockholm, who is a close colleague of Assange and who also knows both women, told the Guardian: "This is a normal police investigation. Let the police find out what actually happened. Of course, the enemies of WikiLeaks may try to use this, but it begins with the two women and Julian. It is not the CIA sending a woman in a short skirt."

[Guest Derek L]

but... the esteemed MLW member is transparent... his profile openly projects on one of his interests: "Drinking scotch in the backroom of the old boys club."

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=21068&st=75

If that’s it, why is he fearful of being extradited to the United States from Sweden? I’ve got my tin-foil strapped on tight, so lay it on me……

[Guest American Woman]

I read your article, and I’m still understanding as that Assange allegedly had some “surprise sex” with a couple of Swedish girls, said girls go to the police, police don’t even jail Assange but the Swedish prosecutors want to question him (Perhaps his side of the story?), word of the alleged incident gets leaked, Assange blames the Americans/CIA/Pentagon, then Assange leaves the country for the United Kingdom. The Swedes apply for a international arrest warrant. Assange refuses to return to Sweden for fear of being sent to the United States.

Meanwhile, the Americans don’t have an indictment against Assange, be it for “cyber-terrorism” or espionage etc, for if they did, the Americans would have had Scotland Yard or MI-5 pick him up when he arrived……….Meanwhile, well in the UK, Assange loses an extradition appeal then buggers off to the Ecuadorian embassy and blames his plight on the United States.

Am I missing anything?

Nope. That's the way I read it, too. Why he's running away and hiding from questioning is difficult to understand, especially being a 'truth and justice' kinda guy himself. I suppose it's handy to be able to make it all about the United States when so many are willing to swallow it up, though. How convenient for him. But of course if the U.S. were after him because of his "leaking information," they wouldn't be going through Swedish girls or the Swedish police.

[Guest Derek L]

Nope. That's the way I read it, too. Why he's running away and hiding from questioning is difficult to understand, especially being a 'truth and justice' kinda guy himself. I suppose it's handy to be able to make it all about the United States when so many are willing to swallow it up, though. How convenient for him. But of course if the U.S. were after him because of his "leaking information," they wouldn't be going through Swedish girls or the Swedish police.

Exactly, if the US Government wanted Assange, they can simply issues an indictment against him and have no need for Assange to be within the United States…………….As such, the United States has not done so………..

Even if we take a different tract to illustrate that Mr Assange is suffering from a delusional thought process when relating his fears of the United States Government: How many Newspaper editors, employed by newspapers that published portions of the Wikileaks have been arrested? Isn’t Assange on the same legal footing, in that he didn’t physically steal anything and if I’m not mistaken, hasn’t the only one to be arrested over the entire affair been the young American soldier?

[cybercoma]

Russia now!

(don't mess with the Putin! Look what happened to Pussy Riot! )

Russia doesn't get to speak of international convention when it violates fundamental human rights the way it does. Putin can sit in the corner and STFU until he cleans up his own backyard.

[waldo]

all youse guys and your wild-eye speculations!

there is enough evidence, circumstantial or not, to suggest there truly is that 'sealed U.S. indictment'... enough evidence to warrant the actions by Assange and his legal team. Sweden refuses to simply provide a guarantee that it won't, in turn, extradite Assange to the U.S.; the U.S. has not, equally, issued a diplomatic assurance that it does not intend to seek the extradition of Assange from Sweden. Issuing the guarantees would, quite obviously, put the pressure and focus back on Assange... and yet, both Sweden and the U.S. continue to rebuff the requests for these guarantees against pursuing extradition. For those with the ready-reach tinfoil hat, what does that tell ya, hey?

as for the banal, 'why not the UK directly' talking point, perhaps... perhaps... the UK, in this heightened profile case, has actually already rebuffed the U.S. and might even be respecting the principal of extended non-refoulement as reflects upon knowingly sending someone on to a country where persecution and/or death may result. Much easier to throw the focus directly on Sweden, hey?

[Guest American Woman]

all youse guys and your wild-eye speculations!

there is enough evidence, circumstantial or not, to suggest there truly is that 'sealed U.S. indictment'... enough evidence to warrant the actions by Assange and his legal team. Sweden refuses to simply provide a guarantee that it won't, in turn, extradite Assange to the U.S.; the U.S. has not, equally, issued a diplomatic assurance that it does not intend to seek the extradition of Assange from Sweden.

Since when are people wanted for questioning in a crime issued "guarantees" before being brought in for questioning? That's not part of any criminal justice system in our countries that I'm aware of. Odd too, that he wasn't worried about such charges from the U.S. before the rape allegations, too.

Good to see people buying into his reason for avoiding the criminal/judicial procedures that he upholds others too, though. Looks good on y'all.

Edited August 19, 2012 by American Woman

[waldo]

Since when are people wanted for questioning in a crime issued "guarantees" before being brought in for questioning? That's not part of any criminal justice system in our countries that I'm aware of. Odd too, that he wasn't worried about such charges from the U.S. before the rape allegations, too.

Good to see people buying into his reason for avoiding the criminal/judicial procedures that he upholds others too, though. Looks good on y'all.

the extradition guarantees being sought from the Swedish and U.S. authorities have nothing to do with the Swedish questioning matter. The receipt of those guarantees, again, would place the focus back on Assange... completely removing your trumped up false narrative.

[eyeball]

Since when are people wanted for questioning in a crime issued "guarantees" before being brought in for questioning?

Ever since people started drafting constitutions, bills of rights and living according to the rule of law.

[Guest American Woman]

the extradition guarantees being sought from the Swedish and U.S. authorities have nothing to do with the Swedish questioning matter. The receipt of those guarantees, again, would place the focus back on Assange... completely removing your trumped up false narrative.

The fact that he's asking for guarantees regarding a completely different matter from what he's wanted for in Sweden is what's bull; the idea that he should have some sort of guarantee involving a completely different matter is ridiculous. He's wanted for questioning in rape allegations, and HE'S the one going on and on about the U.S. being after him, while saying nothing about the charges against him. HE is the one making it about something else besides him. So far it seems to be working to his advantage. So keep being distracted by it. It's what he wants.

You would never agree with some political figure you disagree with asking for the same kind of guarantee. Again. This is about rape allegations, and he is making it about something else.

Edited August 19, 2012 by American Woman