Israel arming subs with nukes

[Guest Peeves]

These questions are reasonable, and are fair questions. But they extrapolate out, thematically, to everyone.

Who are Canadians? People who overthrow democratically-elected leaders against the soveriegn will of the people? Where when how and who pray tell?

Who are Americans? Supporters of State terror, responsible for more deaths in a single case than Hamas and Hezbollah combined...multiplied?

You compare a country that stood in two wars against an aggressor and protected Europe from a threat with rabble of terrorists that engage in civilian terror? You compare a nation, a democracy with a secular group of murderers?

If you wish to compare the America ,sorry, American(s) to a collective of other state terrors, let it be on a level ground. Compare American(s) to Syria, Egypt, The Sudan, the USSR, China, Turkey, Germany,

Who are the British? (Their tale of murder and plunder doesn't even need to be spelled out, even as they imply a celebration of it during the current Jubilee.)..

...Those that brought democracy and law to much of the world through an Empire. Those that voluntarily left those other countries to their own elected governments.

Compare the British to their contemporaries of the time. Did the Spanish treat the Incas as well as the Brits did the East Indians? Did Russia the Ukrainians. Did France the Algerians.Did the hordes of Mongols,the Muslim ravagers deserve accolades? Nope the Brits above all for all their inequities were superior in comparison.

And so on.....today where Islamic countries continue to restrict free speech,free press, apply draconian laws and subjugate their people yet there are those that constantly and blatantly judge only the Western democracies.

[bleeding heart]

Peeves:

Me: Who are Canadians? People who overthrow democratically-elected leaders against the soveriegn will of the people?

You: Where when how and who pray tell?

Haiti, 2004, at gunpoint, and with the Americans and the French.

You didn't even know this vital bit of Canadian history--that we were involved in the illegal overthrow of a democratically-elected leader, less than a decade ago?

Me: Who are Americans? Supporters of State terror, responsible for more deaths in a single case than Hamas and Hezbollah combined...multiplied?

You: You compare a country that stood in two wars against an aggressor and protected Europe from a threat with rabble of terrorists that engage in civilian terror? You compare a nation, a democracy with a secular group of murderers?

Everything you say here is completely irrelevant, and beside the point.

I see you're blindly hypersensitive when someone points out the terrorist behaviours of your favoured heroes. Understandable, I guess, but weak.

When the US explicitly (ie openly, unequivocally) gave the go-ahead for Indonesia's invasion of East Timor, and then made the 25-years of state terror possible through continued arms supplies (with the help of other Western powers, acting the noble humanitarians) they were perfectly and intentionally involved in terrorism, of the most serious sort; a long-term violent oppression which killed perhaps a third of the E. Timorese population.

Do you really, really want to behave as apologist for illegal invasions, mass murder, and attempted genocide, Peeves? Consider it first, and save your reflexive sanctimony for subjects which you've actually looked into.

let it be on a level ground. Compare American(s) to Syria, Egypt, The Sudan, the USSR, China, Turkey, Germany,

????

Why, what do you mean? What in the world are you talking about?

I'm not defending any of the terrible behavuiours of anyone you mentioned.

You're the only one being defensive here...because everyone doesn't moan in pleasure at the magnificence of the state terrorists you admire.

Me: Who are the British? (Their tale of murder and plunder doesn't even need to be spelled out, even as they imply a celebration of it during the current Jubilee.)..

You: ...Those that brought democracy and law to much of the world through an Empire. Those that voluntarily left those other countries to their own elected governments.

I'm aware of the conventional pieties, Peeves.

However, your point is becoming clear: we should focus on what we and our allies do right, and totally ignore their massive criminalities in other realms.

Hell, you don't even wish to think about what we and our heroic allies have done wrong...and when I say wrong, I'm talking serioius wrongs, not "mistakes" in the usual formulation spawned by doctrinal necessity and moral cowardice.

Compare the British to their contemporaries of the time.

This is nonsensical. And why not compare the contemporary British to their contemporary counterparts? Say, the East Timorese whom the British helped murder?

Nope the Brits above all for all their inequities were superior in comparison.

So what? Where am I defending Spain's behaviour in Latin America?

????

You're desperate...and desperately wishing to justify terrible crimes, because, for example, "Spain behaved worse with the Incas."

d so on.....today where Islamic countries continue to restrict free speech,free press, apply draconian laws and subjugate their people yet there are those that constantly and blatantly judge only the Western democracies.

I judge the Western Democracies for what they do wrong; in fact, it's elementary morality (as well as a bedrock of democratic principle) that we should be more concerned with our own wrongdoing than to focus laserlike on the crimes of official enemies...in lieu of self-criticism.

Unbelievable. The indoctrination is evidently robust, and "healthy," albeit within lunatic parameters.

[punked]

http://www.defensenews.com/article/20120603/DEFREG04/306030007/Israel-Arming-German-Supplied-Subs-Nukes-Report?odyssey=nav|head

Israel has nukes. If not, we need to find out what country is violating the NPT.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14448

Looks like the USA is violating it's own policies and laws providing assistance to a nuclear armed country that is NOT signed onto the NPT.

http://www.usaid.gov/policy/ads/faa.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symington_Amendment

Well, we can now at least dispense the notion that Israel does not have nuclear weapons. It does not matter if they build them themselves or if and how they acquired them. This specific items seems to talk about nuclear enrichment, but not possession of nuclear weapons.

But this concludes that Israel does indeed have nuclear weapons.

Jimmy Carter already said Israel has nukes and the US gave them to them.

[DogOnPorch]

Jimmy Carter already said Israel has nukes and the US gave them to them.

Got a ref on that one?

[Guest Peeves]

Jimmy Carter already said Israel has nukes and the US gave them to them.

Jimmy Carter for any reference beyond growing nuts is simply .. wellllllllll nuts.

[GostHacked]

Got a ref on that one?

Let's use something called the Internet!

Love it, nuclear ambiguity.

Notice the first guy seems more upset that the information came out instead of denying the allegations.

National Secret.

[Guest Peeves]

double post erased.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Peeves

[Guest Peeves]

I've often thought from the many interviews of Carter that he's a Jew hater par excellence. I'm not the only one. His constant derogatory remarks on Israel has convinced me.

However, were I an Israeli I would want every conceivable deterrent to preclude another annihilation of Jews.

If they have Nukes, more power to them. As a minuscule democratic country surrounded by enemies that have invaded them and that threaten them I would err on the side of security every time.

As for Carter, acknowledged by most political pundits as the most incapable potus in USA history, has caused him to flay about with anything that will get him attention. The guys a serious flake.

http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/12019

[GostHacked]

I've often thought from the many interviews of Carter that he's a Jew hater par excellence. I'm not the only one. His constant derogatory remarks on Israel has convinced me.

Nice work. Hit right away with the anti-semite angle to marginalize what he is saying.

However, were I an Israeli I would want every conceivable deterrent to preclude another annihilation of Jews.

Also Israel could be wiped out, and there will still be Jews living in this world. The fact that they have indeed survided through the ages despite losing the supposed ancient homeland. Jews seem to be one of the most resilient people on this earth. Survived everything that was thrown at them.

If they have Nukes, more power to them. As a minuscule democratic country surrounded by enemies that have invaded them and that threaten them I would err on the side of security every time.

That's quite the hypocritical response considering the rhetoric towards Iran and their nuclear program in which they have not made the decision to make nukes, based on US and Israel officials statements and intelligence reports. But they must be anti-semites or self hating jews.

[DogOnPorch]

Carter has always had a hate-on for Israel. He's the infamous origin of the Israel = Apartied. He even issued an 'apology' to Jews for all the bad things he said over the decades. But, many suspect it was to aid his grandson's political campaign to help with the Jewish vote.

[DogOnPorch]

GH: Also Israel could be wiped out, and there will still be Jews living in this world.

Half as many. As many as died in the Holocaust. One could wipe out Ontario and there'd still be Canadians, too.

[GostHacked]

Half as many. As many as died in the Holocaust. One could wipe out Ontario and there'd still be Canadians, too.

My point still stands.

[DogOnPorch]

My point still stands.

Indeed. Try harder?

[GostHacked]

Indeed. Try harder?

Don't need to, you agree. Let's move on.

[DogOnPorch]

Don't need to, you agree. Let's move on.

Don't worry. Perhaps your wishes will come true.

[GostHacked]

Don't worry. Perhaps your wishes will come true.

Yeah, cause we would not want to see the proof in the form of a mushroom cloud.

[DogOnPorch]

Yeah, cause we would not want to see the proof in the form of a mushroom cloud.

Like yourself, others think there are too many Jews with too much power. Like yourself, they'd also like to see Jews reduced by half...or more.

[GostHacked]

Like yourself, others think there are too many Jews with too much power. Like yourself, they'd also like to see Jews reduced by half...or more.

So nice of you to put words in my mouth. But that is a troll tactic of yours you really like. Yeah, screw talking about the content, let's call this guy a jew hating anti-semite .. that should garner you victory in what you think is some kind of pissing match.

Pay attention kids, this is how a troll is supposed to act. Grow up dude.

[Guest Peeves]

Nice work. Hit right away with the anti-semite angle to marginalize what he is saying.

If it walks like a duck...it supports my contention. Your opinion is of no value compared to Carter's history.

Also Israel could be wiped out, and there will still be Jews living in this world. The fact that they have indeed survided through the ages despite losing the supposed ancient homeland. Jews seem to be one of the most resilient people on this earth. Survived everything that was thrown at them.

Such a sensitive response. You underwhelm me. If Israel was nuked, millions of Arabs/Muslims/Christians etc. would be annihilated as well. Now perhaps you minimize the loss of 'only more' Jews, but , I'm sure the loss of some of the rest might trouble you a mite.

That's quite the hypocritical response considering the rhetoric towards Iran and their nuclear program in which they have not made the decision to make nukes, based on US and Israel officials statements and intelligence reports. But they must be anti-semites or self hating jews.

Iran is a threat and more so with Nukes. Israel is no threat. Iran IS making uranium refined highly enough to make nukes. Iran has attempted blockades, funds the terrorist orgs.,interfered in Iraq, and repeatedly and openly opined hatefully on Jews to a degree others might consider anti-Semitic,( Holocaust denial),threatened Israel and the West, "' Iran to fund multi-million dollar army base in Syria'. I hardly think I can be considered hypocritical, as, I stand on historical record available to anyone.

[GostHacked]

Such a sensitive response. You underwhelm me. If Israel was nuked, millions of Arabs/Muslims/Christians etc. would be annihilated as well. Now perhaps you minimize the loss of 'only more' Jews, but , I'm sure the loss of some of the rest might trouble you a mite.

There are more than just Jews living in Israel? From what we hear on this board, when the anti-semite card is thrown down, there is little to NO talk about the other religious groups living in Israel other than the Jews. All we hear is about 'DO WE WANT ANOTHER JEW HOLOCAUST?'

More than just Jews died in Nazi Germany, but will you talk about that? Nope, does not support your rhetoric.

Iran is a threat and more so with Nukes. Israel is no threat.

Iran IS making uranium refined highly enough to make nukes. Iran has attempted blockades, funds the terrorist orgs.,interfered in Iraq, and repeatedly and openly opined hatefully on Jews to a degree others might consider anti-Semitic,( Holocaust denial),threatened Israel and the West, "' Iran to fund multi-million dollar army base in Syria'. I hardly think I can be considered hypocritical, as, I stand on historical record available to anyone.

I guess it's not like Israel would sponsor terrorism, right? If we want to talk historical record. But really, what does not get recorded in history? That depends on what history you go with. Anyways....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYDxqZRNib0

The People's Muhajedeen of Iran. Such an awesome name, anything with Muhajedeen in the groups name has GOT to be awesome. If you agree Iran sponsors terrorism, then by the exact definition you are using, then this is classified as terrorism as well. Regardless of the intentions of said operations, it is indeed terrorism.

But the thing is if someone is against Israel, and as you say there are many others living there that are not Jews, why is the holocaust denial anti-semite card thrown down then? First you claim that more than just Jews are living there, then BAM, those same groups are ignored in the later part of the argument to attempt to make this solely about the Jews and their plight again. It's like you are using those other groups conveniently if you think it will work for your argument.

Even the kind of operations Canada has taken part in globally, has indeed been terrorism. Call it what it is and ditch the attempt to pull at heart strings for added emotional impact value.

[Guest Peeves]

There are more than just Jews living in Israel? From what we hear on this board, when the anti-semite card is thrown down, there is little to NO talk about the other religious groups living in Israel other than the Jews. All we hear is about 'DO WE WANT ANOTHER JEW HOLOCAUST?'

More than just Jews died in Nazi Germany, but will you talk about that? Nope, does not support your rhetoric.

Iran IS making uranium refined highly enough to make nukes. Iran has attempted blockades, funds the terrorist orgs.,interfered in Iraq, and repeatedly and openly opined hatefully on Jews to a degree others might consider anti-Semitic,( Holocaust denial),threatened Israel and the West, "' Iran to fund multi-million dollar army base in Syria'. I hardly think I can be considered hypocritical, as, I stand on historical record available to anyone.

I guess it's not like Israel would sponsor terrorism, right? If we want to talk historical record. But really, what does not get recorded in history? That depends on what history you go with. Anyways....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYDxqZRNib0

The People's Muhajedeen of Iran. Such an awesome name, anything with Muhajedeen in the groups name has GOT to be awesome. If you agree Iran sponsors terrorism, then by the exact definition you are using, then this is classified as terrorism as well. Regardless of the intentions of said operations, it is indeed terrorism.

But the thing is if someone is against Israel, and as you say there are many others living there that are not Jews, why is the holocaust denial anti-semite card thrown down then? First you claim that more than just Jews are living there, then BAM, those same groups are ignored in the later part of the argument to attempt to make this solely about the Jews and their plight again. It's like you are using those other groups conveniently if you think it will work for your argument.

Even the kind of operations Canada has taken part in globally, has indeed been terrorism. Call it what it is and ditch the attempt to pull at heart strings for added emotional impact value.

I claim you to beyond waste of time or effort. I've debated some very good and knowledgeable people, you just don't qualify with your one trick pony. Bye.