maplesyrup Posted August 16, 2004 Report Posted August 16, 2004 Pressure Groups and US Middle East Policy Pro-Israel interests are a fixture in American politics, having developed an organized presence in Washington and across the country that is backed by generous campaign contributions and intensive lobbying. On the lobbying front, the pro-Israel community is led by the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), which Fortune magazine ranks as one of the top lobbying groups in the country. AIPAC spent more than $1.1 million lobbying in 2001, roughly the same amount it spent in 2000. I have often wondered why the US has constantly supported Israel over its Middle Eastern neighbours. But now with a review of these lobbying statistics on financial contributions, where Israeli interests outspend Arab intersts by sizeable margins, it is all beginning to make sense. Money talks. Quote An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't. Anatole France
Stoker Posted August 16, 2004 Report Posted August 16, 2004 But I thought Moore uncovered to the world that the Bushes are in the pockets of the Saudi royal family..............now this site says they are in the pockets of Israel.....so what is it, the Jews or the Bin Ladens? Quote The beaver, which has come to represent Canada as the eagle does the United States and the lion Britain, is a flat-tailed, slow-witted, toothy rodent known to bite off it's own testicles or to stand under its own falling trees. -June Callwood-
maplesyrup Posted August 16, 2004 Author Report Posted August 16, 2004 The pro-Israeli US lobby outspends the pro-Arab US lobby 140 times to 1. These figures speak volumes about US politics. Quote An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't. Anatole France
Stoker Posted August 16, 2004 Report Posted August 16, 2004 So are you know saying that the Bush family is not under the thumb of the House of Saud? Quote The beaver, which has come to represent Canada as the eagle does the United States and the lion Britain, is a flat-tailed, slow-witted, toothy rodent known to bite off it's own testicles or to stand under its own falling trees. -June Callwood-
theloniusfleabag Posted August 16, 2004 Report Posted August 16, 2004 Dear Stoker, The US serves Mammon. It owes no other allegiance. Israel is a source of 'economic flow' and therefore, is also a servant of Mammon. But I thought Moore uncovered to the world that the Bushes are in the pockets of the Saudi royal familyThe 'House of Saud' is also in the service of Mammon, hence it's despisal by Osama. Quote Would the Special Olympics Committee disqualify kids born with flippers from the swimming events?
Stoker Posted August 16, 2004 Report Posted August 16, 2004 The US serves Mammon. It owes no other allegiance. What country doesn't look out for itself first? Israel is a source of 'economic flow' and therefore, is also a servant of Mammon. And The 'House of Saud' is also in the service of Mammon, hence it's despisal by Osama. So in your opinion, who has the bigger voice in the White House? Jewish Lobby or Saudi Royal Family? Hollywood or Oil? My bet is Israel.........for obvious reasons. Quote The beaver, which has come to represent Canada as the eagle does the United States and the lion Britain, is a flat-tailed, slow-witted, toothy rodent known to bite off it's own testicles or to stand under its own falling trees. -June Callwood-
Black Dog Posted August 16, 2004 Report Posted August 16, 2004 So in your opinion, who has the bigger voice in the White House? Jewish Lobby or Saudi Royal Family? Hollywood or Oil? Well, anyone with half a brain can separate the very personal connections between the familiasBush and the House of Saud with the vigourous lobbying done by the likes of the AIPAC on Capitol Hill and in the Senate. Your position is a false dichotomy. Quote
Stoker Posted August 16, 2004 Report Posted August 16, 2004 Well, anyone with half a brain can separate the very personal connections between the familiasBush and the House of Saud with the vigourous lobbying done by the likes of the AIPAC on Capitol Hill and in the Senate. Am I correct in saying that you believe the Bush administration is in the pocket of the Saudi Royal Family? Quote The beaver, which has come to represent Canada as the eagle does the United States and the lion Britain, is a flat-tailed, slow-witted, toothy rodent known to bite off it's own testicles or to stand under its own falling trees. -June Callwood-
Black Dog Posted August 16, 2004 Report Posted August 16, 2004 Am I correct in saying that you believe the Bush administration is in the pocket of the Saudi Royal Family? I believe the Bush administration has close economic and political ties with the House of Saud that lead to the Saudis having an undue amount of influence over certain policy decisions. At the same time, this view does not contradict any influence exerted by the powerful pro-israel lobby. Quote
Stoker Posted August 16, 2004 Report Posted August 16, 2004 I believe the Bush administration has close economic and political ties with the House of Saud that lead to the Saudis having an undue amount of influence over certain policy decisions. At the same time, this view does not contradict any influence exerted by the powerful pro-israel lobby. What policy decisions? Bush went into Iraq, even though the Saudis didn't want him to........Bush supports Israel, even though he "has close economic and political ties with the House of Saud".........Are the Saudi's controling the Bush stance on gay marriage? Stem cell reasearch perhaps? Where's the influence? Quote The beaver, which has come to represent Canada as the eagle does the United States and the lion Britain, is a flat-tailed, slow-witted, toothy rodent known to bite off it's own testicles or to stand under its own falling trees. -June Callwood-
maplesyrup Posted August 16, 2004 Author Report Posted August 16, 2004 I doubt very much that Israel would survive without their connections with the United States. Most Israelis realize this of course, and is the reason for such a substantive Jewish lobby directed at US politics. Quote An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't. Anatole France
Black Dog Posted August 16, 2004 Report Posted August 16, 2004 What policy decisions? Bush went into Iraq, even though the Saudis didn't want him to........Bush supports Israel, even though he "has close economic and political ties with the House of Saud".........Are the Saudi's controling the Bush stance on gay marriage? Stem cell reasearch perhaps? Where's the influence? Saudi secrets safe with Bush Saudis promise pre-election oil price cut I get where you're going: you're assuimg-simplisticly-that one or the other must be false, when there's no reason to assume the two diverging interests cannot coexists in a the byzantine political climate of Washington. It seems there's plenty of room at the trough. Quote
Stoker Posted August 16, 2004 Report Posted August 16, 2004 I doubt very much that Israel would survive without their connections with the United States. Maybe, maybe not.....I'd agree with you when the Soviet Union was supporting the Arabs, but not so much anymore. Israel has nukes the Arabs (as of yet) don't. enough said. WRT the first link.........I don't tent to take the assumptions of one man as gospel. WRT Woodward........christ the guy is hawking a book and hasn't (AFAIK) provided any sources......unless of course Deep throat told him so I get where you're going: you're assuimg-simplisticly-that one or the other must be false, when there's no reason to assume the two diverging interests cannot coexists in a the byzantinepolitical climate of Washington. It seems tehre's plenty of room at the trough. I'm not saying that two can't coexists.........I'm saying that I've yet to see any real Saudi influnece in the current Bush government. Quote The beaver, which has come to represent Canada as the eagle does the United States and the lion Britain, is a flat-tailed, slow-witted, toothy rodent known to bite off it's own testicles or to stand under its own falling trees. -June Callwood-
Black Dog Posted August 16, 2004 Report Posted August 16, 2004 I'm not saying that two can't coexists.........I'm saying that I've yet to see any real Saudi influnece in the current Bush government. And...so what? You were the one who brought the Saudis into a thread about Israel. What point were you trying to make? Quote
Stoker Posted August 16, 2004 Report Posted August 16, 2004 And...so what? You were the one who brought the Saudis into a thread about Israel. What point were you trying to make? Actually, maplesyrup brought it up: I have often wondered why the US has constantly supported Israel over its Middle Eastern neighbours.But now with a review of these lobbying statistics on financial contributions, where Israeli interests outspend Arab intersts by sizeable margins, it is all beginning to make sense. Money talks. With my point being that how absurd some claims can be about outside influnce on the US government.......FFS, the Americans do what is best for America (like any other country) and if whats best for America is also best for Israel, so be it. Quote The beaver, which has come to represent Canada as the eagle does the United States and the lion Britain, is a flat-tailed, slow-witted, toothy rodent known to bite off it's own testicles or to stand under its own falling trees. -June Callwood-
Black Dog Posted August 16, 2004 Report Posted August 16, 2004 With my point being that how absurd some claims can be about outside influnce on the US government.......FFS, the Americans do what is best for America (like any other country) and if whats best for America is also best for Israel, so be it. Nonsense. I highly doubt the pro-Israel lobby is just flushing tens of millions of dollars away in hopes that, somehow, American and Israeli interests run in concord. Money shapes policy. The pro-Israel lobby has a great deal of influence of U.S. foreign policy. As for your unspoken but apparent allegation that the well-documented ties between the Bush family and the daudis have no bearing on U.S. policy, consider the relatively soft approach the U.S. has taken with the Saudi's known terrorism links, versus the contoartions they went through to create the illusion of ties between Saddam and Al Qaeda. Consider that Saudi Arabia, as bad a human rights violator as any nation in the region, gets a free pass in that respect. Consider, too, the Saudi connection to 9-11, which has been downplayed and covered up by the administration. There ar ereasons for this: the U.S. needs Saudi oil and Bush Sr, Jr. and tehir friends need Saudi dollars. Quote
Stoker Posted August 16, 2004 Report Posted August 16, 2004 Nonsense. I highly doubt the pro-Israel lobby is just flushing tens of millions of dollars away in hopes that, somehow, American and Israeli interests run in concord.Money shapes policy. The pro-Israel lobby has a great deal of influence of U.S. foreign policy. I'm not trying to be belligerent, but do you have an example(s) of how the pro-Israeli lobby has influenced US forgein policy into an area that the United States would not have tread without Israeli "nudging"? If anything, I'd argue that it was the United States (and other Western powers) that in the past were using Israel to help stem the tide of the Soviet Union and Soviet backed Arab states. Today I'd even argue that the United States (and other Western powers) are doing the same kinda thing, only with the USSR being replaced with terror groups and Arab States that support terror. As for your unspoken but apparent allegation that the well-documented ties between the Bush family and the daudis have no bearing on U.S. policy, consider the relatively soft approach the U.S. has taken with the Saudi's known terrorism links, versus the contoartions they went through to create the illusion of ties between Saddam and Al Qaeda. Consider that Saudi Arabia, as bad a human rights violator as any nation in the region, gets a free pass in that respect. Consider, too, the Saudi connection to 9-11, which has been downplayed and covered up by the administration. To clarify, I very much believe that whatever influence the House of Saud had within the White House has been diminishing since 9/11, with proof being that the United States didn't really take any Saudi imput with the invasion of Iraq. If anything, whatever "Saudi influence" is left, will now wane even further due to the emergence of a Democratic Iraq. Quote The beaver, which has come to represent Canada as the eagle does the United States and the lion Britain, is a flat-tailed, slow-witted, toothy rodent known to bite off it's own testicles or to stand under its own falling trees. -June Callwood-
The Terrible Sweal Posted August 17, 2004 Report Posted August 17, 2004 The US serves Mammon. It owes no other allegiance. What country doesn't look out for itself first? The U.S. = Mammon? Quote
Stoker Posted August 17, 2004 Report Posted August 17, 2004 The U.S. = Mammon? I don't follow? Do you mean that the United States equals material wealth? Quote The beaver, which has come to represent Canada as the eagle does the United States and the lion Britain, is a flat-tailed, slow-witted, toothy rodent known to bite off it's own testicles or to stand under its own falling trees. -June Callwood-
bibby Posted August 18, 2004 Report Posted August 18, 2004 My fellow Cominadians, Could the U.S. support Israel b/c it's the only true Democratic country in the region? Or could it be to have a buffer against radical Islam? Or maybe it's b/c of the amazing scientific and medical technology and breakthroughs that come out of that tiny country? How can 10 million Jews (Or as you might want to think of them as thw Jewish World Order) out spend over 1 billion Muslims. Complete bunk!! Quote
maplesyrup Posted August 18, 2004 Author Report Posted August 18, 2004 Complete bunk!! Hey pal....try supplying us with some specific facts and URLs to support your brilliant and substantive comments. Quote An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't. Anatole France
Stoker Posted August 18, 2004 Report Posted August 18, 2004 Hey pal....try supplying us with some specific facts and URLs to support your brilliant and substantive comments. Which points are you having problems getting your head around? Quote The beaver, which has come to represent Canada as the eagle does the United States and the lion Britain, is a flat-tailed, slow-witted, toothy rodent known to bite off it's own testicles or to stand under its own falling trees. -June Callwood-
The Terrible Sweal Posted August 19, 2004 Report Posted August 19, 2004 The U.S. = Mammon? I don't follow? Do you mean that the United States equals material wealth? Someone said the U.S. serves Mammon. You replied it is natural for a state to serve it's ownf interests. Ergo, I presumed that you equated the interests of the US with the interests of Mammon, a position I find peculiar. Quote
The Terrible Sweal Posted August 19, 2004 Report Posted August 19, 2004 My fellow Cominadians,Could the U.S. support Israel b/c it's the only true Democratic country in the region? Or could it be to have a buffer against radical Islam? Or maybe it's b/c of the amazing scientific and medical technology and breakthroughs that come out of that tiny country? How can 10 million Jews (Or as you might want to think of them as thw Jewish World Order) out spend over 1 billion Muslims. Complete bunk!! Your reasons are a sufficient explanation for the United States to support Israel as an ally and friend. But they are not sufficient reason to support Israel in the oppression of the Palestinians. Quote
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