F-35 does not qualify as 5th gen fighter?

[Guest Peeves]

name='TheNewTeddy' date='10 May 2012 - 09:45 AM' timestamp='1336661131' post='793838']

Technically, it's red and blue.

However the issue here, from where I sit, is that somehow, if you think the F-35 is a bad plane, you are anti-Harper. The plane can not just be bad.

I remember a tank that was just as bad...Lots more about military spending at link

http://www.apatheticvoter.com/DefenseContractingRip-Off.htm

The Bradley Death Trap

Many of us have probably watched the made-for-TV movie, “The Pentagon Wars”, in which the costs (over $14 billion) of developing the Bradley Fighting Vehicle for the U. S. Army skyrocketed totally out of control. Air Force Lt. Col. John Burton was assigned to evaluate the usefulness of the Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicle, an Army troop carrier/scout vehicle that was in reality a deathtrap for its crew. Burton kept trying to prove whether it was an effective weapon and safe for its crew, but he was constantly harassed by his temporary commanding officer, an Army General, so this individual could get the Bradley into production and then into the field after years of foot dragging by all involved. Through chicanery and backdoor politics, the Colonel was finally able to demonstrate the problems with the design, to no avail. When the Israeli Army purchased the vehicle, they made all of the changes recommended by the Colonel. Unfortunately, this is not an isolated incidence. In blunt terms, there is no accountability for taxpayer’s money – there is only accountability through the political chain of command. To spend $14 billion to continuously STUDY one weapons system is outrageous. On top of that, the vehicle has the complexity of a can opener. With that huge expenditure of money, they should have had thousands of the vehicles in the field plus they should have found the cure for cancer. Do you think this stupidity would have been permitted in the private (commercial) sector? More heads would have rolled then in the French Revolution. Oh, yes, I believe the Army General responsible for this fiasco was promoted immediately after this incident. Makes sense to me.

Still worried about tax cuts?

[Smallc]

Instead, it's turning out to be every bit as expensive as the F-22,

I don't see where you get that. We only have cost numbers for LRIP aircraft, which still cost about $100M less than the F-22.

[Smallc]

Stealth capability seems the issue in definition.

Not just that. One of the most important things, apart from stealth, is situational awareness and command and control. Even the F-22 won't match it in many ways when it comes to that.

[waldo]

One of the most important things, apart from stealth, is situational awareness and command and control.

more imaginary buzzword bingo, hey?

The fact is that, today, after ten years and $50 billion, the F-35 flight test program has

demonstrated none of its over-hyped “fifth-generation” capabilities

, which are in any case incremental improvements over existing capabilities rather than the revolutionary quantum leaps they are made out to be.

[waldo]

Yes you are.

notwithstanding which way the wind blows... and what he claims... yes, yes he most certainly is a rightee!

[Guest Derek L]

Why is that funny?

To this:

-- Stealth: the F-35’s low radar cross-section and radar-absorbent surface coatings (i.e., paint) make it more difficult to detect by radar, but they do not make it invisible. In any case, detection by radar matters less and less because by switching on its radar a fighter becomes as visible as someone turning on a flashlight in a dark room.

The author “makes his point” but is devoid of reality and one simple acronym: EMCON

So the preferred detection sensors are optical, like Infra-Red Scan and Track (IRST), and in this case the large and very hot exhaust plume of the F-35’s 45,000-lb thrust engine is as visible as a blowtorch in the same dark room.

Here he either fails to mention or is ignorant of the fact that any passive IR (Infrared sensor) is going to be constrained by range (at best ~10km on a clear day), clouds and rain, and the ambient temperature of the atmosphere, to say nothing of the fact that passive IR sensors in an aircraft can’t target weapons……This is not only a credit to “Stealth” and the F-35, but natural science.

[DogOnPorch]

To this:

The author “makes his point” but is devoid of reality and one simple acronym: EMCON

Here he either fails to mention or is ignorant of the fact that any passive IR (Infrared sensor) is going to be constrained by range (at best ~10km on a clear day), clouds and rain, and the ambient temperature of the atmosphere, to say nothing of the fact that passive IR sensors in an aircraft can’t target weapons……This is not only a credit to “Stealth” and the F-35, but natural science.

Plus, as I mentioned, dodging radar and IR locks has been going on since the very first AA missile.

[Smallc]

more imaginary buzzword bingo, hey?

No:

http://www.es.northropgrumman.com/solutions/f35targeting/

[waldo]

No:

http://www.es.northropgrumman.com/solutions/f35targeting/

a video! Do you have that in a simulator?

[Guest Derek L]

No:

http://www.es.northropgrumman.com/solutions/f35targeting/

Coupled with it’s AESA radar and MADL, an F-35 can detect and engage, something as small as a Howitzer, with not only it’s weapons carried but a JDAM from a B-2, a 5” naval gun and Excalibur combo or a Tomahawk launched from a submerged attack sub………….

Edited May 10, 2012 by Derek L

[DogOnPorch]

Coupled with it’s AESA radar and MADL, an F-35 can detect and engage, something as small as a Howitzer, with not only it’s weapons carried but a JDAM from a B-2, a 5” naval gun and Excalibur combo or a Tomahawk launched from a submerged attack sub………….

Now ain't that sweet.

[Guest Derek L]

Now ain't that sweet.

Sensor fusion says it all……..The concept behind DAS has been in use with the Tomcats since the 70s, only now with 360 degree coverage…….

[DogOnPorch]

Sensor fusion says it all……..The concept behind DAS has been in use with the Tomcats since the 70s, only now with 360 degree coverage…….

Yes...no 6 o'clock low surprise with these critters.

[Guest Derek L]

Yes...no 6 o'clock low surprise with these critters.

And more importantly, that will be the case attributed to this:

A fighter, mini AWACS and JSTARS rolled into one platform……..

Edited May 10, 2012 by Derek L

[Smallc]

But hey, it's no different than other, legacy fighters.

[DogOnPorch]

Radar maintenance used to be a major pill due to general fragility and moving parts...this seems to have solved that in spades. Not to mention every F-35 is a Wild Weasel.

Edited May 10, 2012 by DogOnPorch

[cybercoma]

I see. Does that make you the great political orientation decision maker? Because on any political compass, I come out almost squarely in the middle....often a bit to the left. I guess I must be right wing though.

You most definitely support the right wing in Canada.

[Smallc]

You most definitely support the right wing in Canada.

No, I don't, actually. I support what I see as the party that is the most pragmatic and the bet able to manage the economy. That, at the moment, is the current Conservative government. It has nothing to do with them being right wing. I know that's hard for someone who simply votes for the NDP because they're the NDP to understand.

[cybercoma]

No, I don't, actually. I support what I see as the party that is the most pragmatic and the bet able to manage the economy. That, at the moment, is the current Conservative government. It has nothing to do with them being right wing. I know that's hard for someone who simply votes for the NDP because they're the NDP to understand.

I vote for the NDP because they stand for the things I believe in. It's not my fault you don't actually stand for anything.

[Smallc]

I vote for the NDP because they stand for the things I believe in. It's not my fault you don't actually stand for anything.

Other than human decency, I find a great many of the principles people claim they adhere to are self serving, narrowly focused, and often, unworkable.

Edited May 11, 2012 by Smallc

[cybercoma]

Other than human decency, I find a great many of the principles people claim they adhere to are self serving, narrowly focused, and often, unworkable.

I feel the same way about the principles behind the CPC's policies and the current government's actions, but again that doesn't stop you from defending them.

[Smallc]

I feel the same way about the principles behind the CPC's policies and the current government's actions

That's funny, because so do I. That was my point....though I'm not sure which unsustainable policies I've defended.