NDP Leading Tories in Newest Poll

[Newfoundlander]

It was a pretty weak smear attempt.

What's the difference in that and what Mulcair did?

It was also a question.

Edited May 5, 2012 by Newfoundlander

[bleeding heart]

What's the difference in that and what Mulcair did?

Then (unlike myself) you plainly do not disagree with Mulcair's little foolishness here, unless you hold yourself to a lower standard.

It was also a question.

But not a serious question.

[WWWTT]

It was a classless move and I won't support it. He was right to bring up the double-standard, but he was wrong to imply that it was race related.

I would only recognize his comments as being classless if it can be proven to be untrue!

There are countless well documented cases in Canada where race was a deciding factor in much decision making and policy!

For you to claim that Mulcair acted/spoke inappropriately you are taking the position that all race related matters/conflicts/disputes have been resolved within Canada.

Since this as well is very difficult to prove then it is in my opinion that Mulcair spoke well within the limits of his constituents mandate.

In other words some people vote NDP because they feel that an NDP candidate will defend the rights of minorities!

Are you suggesting that all racial inequalities have been fairly resolved within Canada.And in particularly within the government and all of its branches,bodies,institutions,etc and at all levels of government across Canada?

WWWTT

[cybercoma]

I would only recognize his comments as being classless if it can be proven to be untrue!

Sorry, WWTT. That's not how arguments work, that's not how law works, and that's not how it works in this case. The burden of proof is on Mulcair to prove racism. It's clear that there's a double-standard here, but it's not clear that it was racism. Mulcair's claim just muddies the water when it comes to shedding light on a very real case of hypocrisy by sensationalizing it with the claims of racism.

There are countless well documented cases in Canada where race was a deciding factor in much decision making and policy!

Yes there are, but that doesn't mean you can just throw out claims of racism without proving them.

For you to claim that Mulcair acted/spoke inappropriately you are taking the position that all race related matters/conflicts/disputes have been resolved within Canada.

You don't speak for me. That's not the position I'm taking at all. Mulcair was not speaking about "all race-related matters/conflicts/disputes [being] resolved within Canada." He was talking about a very specific case and he was implying racism, rather than coming right out and saying that the Conservative government is racist. The reason he didn't come right out and say it is that he has no evidence for this. He's just sowing seeds. It may be an effective political tactic, but I find it to be cheap and dirty politics. I don't support cheap politics and I intend to hold the party I support as accountable as I would hold the Conservatives were they to do the same.

Since this as well is very difficult to prove then it is in my opinion that Mulcair spoke well within the limits of his constituents mandate.

Oh sure. He was within his limits. He's also open to criticism for the comments. Since it's difficult to prove, I intend to hold him accountable for making claims he can't prove.

In other words some people vote NDP because they feel that an NDP candidate will defend the rights of minorities!

So? Do you think it helps minorities when people throw unsupported claims of racism? It actually hurts them by diminishing their actual fights with racism.

While this is certainly a double standard, it's quite easy for the Conservatives to come back and say that the difference is Freeman committed a violent crime, while Black was merely found guilty of fraud. That's an important difference between those cases and one that has nothing to do with race.

For the record, I disagree with Freeman being kept out of Canada and I support Black's entrance. I believe once a person has paid their dues to society, we oughtn't continue punishing them. Bear in mind that neither of them have to be let back in. They're not Canadian citizens. That's what makes Black's entrance questionable in the first place.

Are you suggesting that all racial inequalities have been fairly resolved within Canada.And in particularly within the government and all of its branches,bodies,institutions,etc and at all levels of government across Canada?

Seriously. Give your head a shake. I find it inappropriate that Mulcair implies racism here when it's unsupported. I expect more from the leader of the opposition than I do a columnist in a newspaper. Moreover, my criticism of Mulcair has nothing to do with every last systemic inequality faced by people in Canada and I find it pretty insulting that you're trying to score political points on me in this way.

[WWWTT]

Sorry, WWTT. That's not how arguments work, that's not how law works, and that's not how it works in this case. The burden of proof is on Mulcair to prove racism.

False!

The house of commons is not a court of law.

Mulcair can make any claim he may so wish within the limits of the house of commons without any burden off proof and without being subject to any penalty.This is the law and not any ones opinion!

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

but that doesn't mean you can just throw out claims of racism without proving them.

False

Yes Mulcair(and any other MP sitting within the house of commons) can "throw out" any claim that they may feel is relevant!

WWWTT

[cybercoma]

False!

The house of commons is not a court of law.

Mulcair can make any claim he may so wish within the limits of the house of commons without any burden off proof and without being subject to any penalty.This is the law and not any ones opinion!

WWWTT

I already said he can make whatever claim he wants. He can also stand up in the House and look like a tool for doing so. Just like he did here.

[WWWTT]

You don't speak for me. That's not the position I'm taking at all. Mulcair was not speaking about "all race-related matters/conflicts/disputes [being] resolved within Canada." He was talking about a very specific case and he was implying racism, rather than coming right out and saying that the Conservative government is racist. The reason he didn't come right out and say it is that he has no evidence for this. He's just sowing seeds. It may be an effective political tactic, but I find it to be cheap and dirty politics. I don't support cheap politics and I intend to hold the party I support as accountable as I would hold the Conservatives were they to do the same.

Claiming that Mulcair is "sowing seeds" is absolutely false!

Don't believe me?

Go to immigration Canada and check out the waiting times for permanent residence by country.

Notice the pattern?

If you don't then you are ignoring the facts buddy!

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

I already said he can make whatever claim he wants. He can also stand up in the House and look like a tool for doing so. Just like he did here.

Not in regards to the segment of your comment that I was making my counter argument.

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

Seriously. Give your head a shake. I find it inappropriate that Mulcair implies racism here when it's unsupported. I expect more from the leader of the opposition than I do a columnist in a newspaper. Moreover, my criticism of Mulcair has nothing to do with every last systemic inequality faced by people in Canada and I find it pretty insulting that you're trying to score political points on me in this way.

It is you that is making the suggestion that Mulcairs implication from within the house is unsupported!

There are literally tens of thousands of Canadians whom have immigrated to this country from non European countries that I believe would not share your view.

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

I already said he can make whatever claim he wants. He can also stand up in the House and look like a tool for doing so. Just like he did here.

So someone who stands up for equality,racial and class is a tool???

Good luck buddy!

WWWTT

[cybercoma]

There are literally tens of thousands of Canadians whom have immigrated to this country from non European countries

Case in point.

[cybercoma]

So someone who stands up for equality,racial and class is a tool???

Good luck buddy!

WWWTT

You're obviously just going along with what Mulcair said in blind partisanship. Even Olivia Chow said in an interview that day, "I will let our leader defend his own comments," because the charge of racism is unfounded. Moreover, he didn't come right out and say that they were racists, he merely alluded to it by including race when saying there's a double-standard between the cases. He's smart enough to know that he can't come right out and call the Conservatives racist. Since it was an implied argument, rather than an explicit one, he was indeed "sowing seeds," as I said earlier. You can sit here and proclaim that he's standing up for oppressed minorities all you want, but in this case he did not show any sort of systemic oppression occurring. He stopped short of outright calling them racists. So if he really was standing up for racism, he would show in no uncertain terms where the racism is. He didn't. He side-swiped the Conservative government with a remark that the media could then sensationalize. In my opinion, if he's going to claim racism on the part of the CPC, he better have damn good proof that they're actually being racist first. He doesn't have that proof and neither do you. Thus, the comment was inappropriate at best, but I give him credit for shining light on the Freeman case, something I'm sure many Canadians were completely unaware of until now.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

That's true, but the NDP certainly shouldn't stoop to the CPC's level. The sad reality is that it was effective for the CPC; Canadians clearly respond favourably to these tactics (they have a majority).

Correction: Canadians who are likely to vote conservative at some point, respond favourably to the those tactics. Just look at how right wing media conducts itself.

[cybercoma]

Correction: Canadians who are likely to vote conservative at some point, respond favourably to the those tactics. Just look at how right wing media conducts itself.

Paranoia, hatred, and divisiveness. I see your point.

[mentalfloss]

It's official.

APRIL 2012 POLLS

Percentage

NDP: 33.3%

CPC: 33.2%

LIB: 20.6%

Seats

CPC: 136

NDP: 120

LIB: 47

http://threehundredeight.blogspot.ca/2012/05/april-2012-federal-poll-averages.html

[Vancouver King]

It's official.

APRIL 2012 POLLS

Percentage

NDP: 33.3%

CPC: 33.2%

LIB: 20.6%

Seats

CPC: 136

NDP: 120

LIB: 47

http://threehundredeight.blogspot.ca/2012/05/april-2012-federal-poll-averages.html

For some of us decades have passed awaiting this trend to be confirmed. Although the leadership of Layton and Mulcair have much to do with new-found NDP respectability, most of the recent surge is reaction to Tory miscues from reopening the abortion debate to gutting environmental laws.

That this NDP surge also comes in the presence of strong Bob Rae Liberal leadership bodes well for it's durability. My crystal ball is forecasting an eventual weak Conservative minority - a raucus circus so ineffectual the NDP rides a tsunami of public disgust into the gov't benches.

[cybercoma]

Numbers now showing NDP ahead and gainng support in traditionally conservative territory. No link off hand (on my phone). Someone can Google it.

[mentalfloss]

Numbers now showing NDP ahead and gainng support in traditionally conservative territory. No link off hand (on my phone). Someone can Google it.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/05/10/tory-support-stays-stagnant-as-ndp-surges-in-conservative-strongholds-poll/

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ndp-broadens-support-into-tory-turf-poll-shows/article2428433/

Edited May 10, 2012 by mentalfloss

[cybercoma]

Thanks!

[Newfoundlander]

Will be interesting to see how Mulcair's attack on the oil sands, and Canada's natural resources sector, will effect the NDPs numbers in western candada.

[WWWTT]

I bet there's a lot of liberals out there fuming over these poll numbers.

Rural/Western Canada was always a real tuff nut to crack for the liberals and to see the NDP kicking at the knees of the conservatives must be turning them green with envy.

Guess I was right by always saying that the conservatives sound worried for the last several months,here's the proof.

WWWTT

[Newfoundlander]

I bet there's a lot of liberals out there fuming over these poll numbers.

Rural/Western Canada was always a real tuff nut to crack for the liberals and to see the NDP kicking at the knees of the conservatives must be turning them green with envy.

Guess I was right by always saying that the conservatives sound worried for the last several months,here's the proof.

WWWTT

Seeing the NDP have usually been the main alternative to Conservative parties in western Canada I doubt many Liberals are surprised, especially seeing they've chosen to ignor the region for decades.

[WWWTT]

Seeing the NDP have usually been the main alternative to Conservative parties in western Canada I doubt many Liberals are surprised, especially seeing they've chosen to ignor the region for decades.

Ever heard of the term "Sour Grapes"?

WWWTT

[Newfoundlander]

Ever heard of the term "Sour Grapes"?

WWWTT

No, why don't you explain it for everyone?