The official, what’s your favourite and my wife won’t let me get this

[DogOnPorch]

[Guest Derek L]

I've heard the criticisms about the newer 870 Express, I picked one up a couple of years ago and have used it for two duck seasons without a misfeed or jam. We'll see how it holds up over time. Still can't beat my Mossberg 500 though. The 500 is tough to beat for a good economical well constructed utility pump. I have an old Canadian made Lakefield Mossberg 400G that's 25+ years old, just as smooth and reliable as my new 500.

After Mossberg jumped the shark and brought out that 500 chainsaw version, I’ve lost all faith in them...

[Guest Derek L]

I had that happen about a month ago with a .223 casing from my son shooting next to me…..bounced off my glasses and somehow slipped into the collar of my jacket and shirt…..burnt to holy hell and the boys thought it hilarious…..still got a scar on the neck.

[Guest Derek L]

Here’s a good instructional video for those that refer to anything "scary looking" as a “military assault rifle”

Of note, the rifle he converts is a Ruger Mini-14...........And it is that simple to exchange stocks..........

[kimmy]

I'm not terribly worried about zombies, as my judo and boxing skills should be more than a match. Zombies never keep their hands up, have notoriously poor takedown defense, and I think that my notorious right hook should be able to shatter a rotting skull and pulpify a zombie brain without trouble.

I am however a little more concerned about the inevitable collapse of human civilization, when I may need to hunt for food, as well as defend myself from you guys lawless anarchists. Video games and movies have given me an extensive knowledge of surviving in post-apocalyptic situations, and one thing I have learned is that ammunition will be hard to come by. As a result I have become interested in learning to use more traditional weapons.

After watching The Hunger Games, I have become interested in bows. I had a cheap fibreglass bow when I was younger, but never got very serious about it. I'm considering trying it again. I am really only interested in shooting competitors from District 2 stationary targets at this point. I have been looking at takedown recurve type bows, because portability and storage are big issues.

Do any of you psychos firearms enthusiasts know anything about archery?

-k

[DogOnPorch]

I'm not terribly worried about zombies, as my judo and boxing skills should be more than a match.

I'll be Zander...lol.

[Guest Derek L]

I'm not terribly worried about zombies, as my judo and boxing skills should be more than a match. Zombies never keep their hands up, have notoriously poor takedown defense, and I think that my notorious right hook should be able to shatter a rotting skull and pulpify a zombie brain without trouble.

I am however a little more concerned about the inevitable collapse of human civilization, when I may need to hunt for food, as well as defend myself from you guys lawless anarchists. Video games and movies have given me an extensive knowledge of surviving in post-apocalyptic situations, and one thing I have learned is that ammunition will be hard to come by. As a result I have become interested in learning to use more traditional weapons.

After watching The Hunger Games, I have become interested in bows. I had a cheap fibreglass bow when I was younger, but never got very serious about it. I'm considering trying it again. I am really only interested in shooting competitors from District 2 stationary targets at this point. I have been looking at takedown recurve type bows, because portability and storage are big issues.

Do any of you psychos firearms enthusiasts know anything about archery?

-k

Run out of ammo……..Surely you jest, that’s why gun toting Jesus invented reloading and surplus Commie ammo……Myself personally, I’ve enough to start my own religion……..

As for archery itself, a friend growing up use to cull the local deer population around Butchart Gardens in Victoria……….I went out a few times with him and never thought it something to jump up and down about…..In my view, as a proud supporter and member of the BC Wildlife Federation and an avid hunter, I’ve always felt an arrow is less humane then a bullet.

[Guest American Woman]

... I’ve always felt an arrow is less humane then a bullet.

Ultimately, I think that depends on the skill of the hunter.

[Guest Derek L]

Ultimately, I think that depends on the skill of the hunter.

And the same can be said of a poor (or undersized) rifle shot that causes the animal to bleed out and run in panic for hours………….Regardless, archery might appear more “sporting” in that it makes the hunter approach the animal at a shorter distance and then track it, but a magnum and/or .30 calibre rifle round that drops the animal near instantly is more humane.

[Guest Derek L]

Just bought (online) a used GP100 for $500 and a CX4 Storm for $750 .…….I’ll have some splainin to do later

Edited April 29, 2012 by Derek L

[Guest Derek L]

And just ordered for the CX4 one of these:

Zombie Stopper

I’m going to be in deep trouble….

Edited April 30, 2012 by Derek L

[Shakeyhands]

And just ordered for the CX4 one of these:

Zombie Stopper

I’m going to be in deep trouble….

If you get sent to the dog house, you can stay here at my house for a little while.

Bring the rifles... and some ammunition....

[Guest Derek L]

If you get sent to the dog house, you can stay here at my house for a little while.

Bring the rifles... and some ammunition....

Nah, not in the doghouse anymore……..You see, “we” decided to sell several guns that are “surplus” to my needs (Remington 700 .300 RUM with a Leupold mk 4 LR [$2800], Browning A-Bolt Eclipse 270 Win with a Leupold VX-3 [$1500], Smith & Wesson M&P .357 Sig [$650], Gen 2 Glock 17 9mm [$500] , CZ 858 7.62x39 [$650])

This might seem like quite a hit, but during the deliberations, it was also discovered that someone has a Ruger Mini-14 and Mini-30 on back order (doubling the collection)………….And if I get close to what I’m looking for on consignment, there still might be an AR-15 in the works

[kimmy]

And the same can be said of a poor (or undersized) rifle shot that causes the animal to bleed out and run in panic for hours………….Regardless, archery might appear more “sporting” in that it makes the hunter approach the animal at a shorter distance and then track it, but a magnum and/or .30 calibre rifle round that drops the animal near instantly is more humane.

Truthfully I don't think I could shoot a bow at a mammal unless my life depended on it.

I agree with what you're saying, bow-hunting really doesn't sound very humane. I enjoy meat... but I don't want to kill it myself. Fish, possibly. Fowl, maybe. Mammals... I don't know. The one animal I know I could kill without a moment's hesitation is a cockatoo.

Zombie Stopper

Oh no! That is just too cool!

-k

[Guest Derek L]

Truthfully I don't think I could shoot a bow at a mammal unless my life depended on it.

I agree with what you're saying, bow-hunting really doesn't sound very humane. I enjoy meat... but I don't want to kill it myself. Fish, possibly. Fowl, maybe. Mammals... I don't know. The one animal I know I could kill without a moment's hesitation is a cockatoo.

I tend to agree and it’s really a matter of perspective I suppose……….Some will say bow hunting (and black powder guns) are more sporting since it’s a lot harder to get in close to animals, versus those that spend thousands of dollars on rifles and scopes and pick off animals from a half km+ away………I prefer, as does my family, in between the two with either a bolt or pump action rifle for deer and moose, a SxS or pump shotgun for grouse and duck, and will only use a semi auto shotgun for turkey (they’re quick and too smart for their own good) well wearing an blaze orange Elmer Fudd cap………..It adds more “challenge” to the “hunt” well still being a more humane way to kill an animal………Oh and no sprays and/or lures.

As for your sentiment on what animals you could hunt, my daughter is much the same way……..nothing that walks on four legs and has fur…….And truth be told, unless in extreme danger, I doubt I could ever shoot a bear…….they remind me too much of dogs for some reason…….

Oh no! That is just too cool!

-k

Fun for kids of all ages

Check out these:

Bought a couple of box's at a gun show a few months ago just in case for a collectors item

Edited May 8, 2012 by Derek L

[kimmy]

Dear gun enthusiasts,

I recently watched a documentary that caused me to rethink my zombie preparedness strategy. It appears there is some evidence that being cut or bitten by zombies may cause contamination; therefore I am now questioning martial arts as a zombie defense strategy.

As a result I'll be taking a firearms course soon and should be getting my license shortly thereafter.

Once I have my PAL, I am planning on buying something, and I am considering a Mosin-Nagant as my first purchase. They're dirt cheap, they appear to be very economical to operate, and I'm really drawn to the history and the aesthetics of the weapon. From what I have read, I get the impression that they're also entirely viable guns for recreational shooting and even hunting.

What do you guys think? Is this an appropriate first rifle for a beginner? (I am just 5'5, but solidly built and physically very capable, if such things are a consideration.)

-k

[Guest Derek L]

Dear gun enthusiasts,

I recently watched a documentary that caused me to rethink my zombie preparedness strategy. It appears there is some evidence that being cut or bitten by zombies may cause contamination; therefore I am now questioning martial arts as a zombie defense strategy.

As a result I'll be taking a firearms course soon and should be getting my license shortly thereafter.

Once I have my PAL, I am planning on buying something, and I am considering a Mosin-Nagant as my first purchase. They're dirt cheap, they appear to be very economical to operate, and I'm really drawn to the history and the aesthetics of the weapon. From what I have read, I get the impression that they're also entirely viable guns for recreational shooting and even hunting.

What do you guys think? Is this an appropriate first rifle for a beginner? (I am just 5'5, but solidly built and physically very capable, if such things are a consideration.)

-k

Good for you Kimmy!!! Remember to limber up and double tap!!!

My advice would be first, when going to get your licence, if you’re able, fork out the extra ~100 bucks and get your RPAL. This would allow you to purchase if you ever so desired hand guns and/or “Black Rifles” and really would only take another day of classroom time, and depending where you’re taking your course, most places will offer a discount if you take both courses at the same time………For the little bit extra money and time, it’s well worth in terms in value.

As for a rifle for a beginner, hands down, the first rifle I learnt to shoot and both my kids, amongst millions of other Canadians and Americans is a Ruger 10/22.……They’ll run between 200-300 bucks new, they’ll last forever and use .22 cal rimfire ammunition (550 Winchester rounds at Wal-Mart or crappy tire for 30 bucks) and since it’s a rimfire rifle, no magazine restrictions. (And has hardly any recoil and even for more experienced shooters, is still really fun to shoot….I’ve got one near 40 years old and has seen an estimate 15000 rounds with the original barrel)

If not the Ruger, you couldn’t go wrong with another type of .22 LR rifle till you get the hang of it, and even then they’re still loads of fun!!!

There is certainly nothing wrong with a Nagant, but it is a .30 calibre rifle so will have a bit of a kick for a beginner, one good thing for it like you mentioned is the cost, and like most Eastern European surplus rifles, you can get surplus ammunition!!!! Dirt Cheap in bulk (~1500 rounds about 250 bucks)

Ruger 10/22

Edited June 7, 2012 by Derek L

[kimmy]

A Ruger 10/22 is the first (and only) gun I've ever shot! A cousin took me and my brother out to shoot gophers once, a long time ago.

Will look into the RPAL... not terribly interested in pistols, and not exactly sure what "black rifles" are.

I have noticed a number of other .22LR semis on the market for considerably cheaper than the Ruger (Mossberg, Savage, Henry collapsible survival rifle thingy.) Is the Ruger worth the extra money?

-k

Edited June 7, 2012 by kimmy

[Guest Derek L]

A Ruger 10/22 is the first (and only) gun I've ever shot! A cousin took me and my brother out to shoot gophers once, a long time ago.

There pretty much is a 10/22 in any family that owns a gun lol. Do you remember what you thought of it?

Will look into the RPAL... not terribly interested in pistols, and not exactly sure what "black rifles" are.

Fair enough, but you never know, pistols are a hoot though, and not to sound sexist, but from experience women tend to be very good shots with little practice, especially with 9mms. A “Black Rifle” is generally something like a AR-15 and is usually (incorrectly) referred to as a “assault rifle” by the media.

I have noticed a number of other .22LR semis on the market for considerably cheaper than the Ruger (Mossberg, Savage, Henry collapsible survival rifle thingy.) Is the Ruger worth the extra money?

I would say defiantly yes the Ruger is worth the extra cash….In my opinion, over the last ~20 years the QC at Mossberg and Savage Arms have went downhill, which is especially bad since both brands have always been deemed “value” brands……..As for the Henry Survival rifle, to be quite honest I don’t know much about the Henry produced versions, but being former air force and a certified gun nut, the original (Armalite AR-7) concept left a lot to be desired…But Henry does produce quality firearms, and make a .22 Mare’s Leg, which pretty much guarantees that you become as cool as Steve McQueen.

[kimmy]

There pretty much is a 10/22 in any family that owns a gun lol. Do you remember what you thought of it?

It was quite some time ago and while I recall shooting it, I no longer recall the physical sensation. I was probably somewhere around 90 pounds at the time, and yet I don't recall any problem with recoil or controlling it. It had a scope on it, and I was very close to my targets, though I didn't kill any of them... which I don't feel bad about actually.

Fair enough, but you never know, pistols are a hoot though, and not to sound sexist, but from experience women tend to be very good shots with little practice, especially with 9mms. A “Black Rifle” is generally something like a AR-15 and is usually (incorrectly) referred to as a “assault rifle” by the media.

So, basically "cool" guns that appeal to guys who grew up playing video games and want to imagine they're commandos?

If the RPAL training and exam are available at the same time as I do my PAL training and exam, I'll get both.

I would say defiantly yes the Ruger is worth the extra cash….In my opinion, over the last ~20 years the QC at Mossberg and Savage Arms have went downhill, which is especially bad since both brands have always been deemed “value” brands……..As for the Henry Survival rifle, to be quite honest I don’t know much about the Henry produced versions, but being former air force and a certified gun nut, the original (Armalite AR-7) concept left a lot to be desired…But Henry does produce quality firearms, and make a .22 Mare’s Leg, which pretty much guarantees that you become as cool as Steve McQueen.

The portability of the survival .22 has great appeal. Could be easily stowed in my kayak when I go on a wilderness trip. They're even waterproof, I gather.

edit to add: what about some of the other brands? Remington and Marlin also have value-priced .22 offerings.

-k

Edited June 9, 2012 by kimmy

[Guest Derek L]

It was quite some time ago and while I recall shooting it, I no longer recall the physical sensation. I was probably somewhere around 90 pounds at the time, and yet I don't recall any problem with recoil or controlling it. It had a scope on it, and I was very close to my targets, though I didn't kill any of them... which I don't feel bad about actually.

With a .22 lr, regardless of brand, the recoil will be about the same, so if you felt comfortable with it, you should be good to go with whatever you select. The Key, aside from being comfortable, is to get the basics down and learn how to shoot well with a rifle in .22 calibre, then move on to the bigger stuff.

So, basically "cool" guns that appeal to guys who grew up playing video games and want to imagine they're commandos?

If the RPAL training and exam are available at the same time as I do my PAL training and exam, I'll get both.

To be honest, yes. A great many of the owners of AR-15s in Canada are “mall ninjas”, with that said, there are segments of the community that utilize it’s inherent accuracy (for a semi-auto rifle) for competitive target shooting…….In some States it’s legal to hunt (small game & varmints) with and of course, there are those keen to the fact that an AR-15 is the most suited rifle, available to civilians in Canada, for the coming Zombie apocalypse

To qualify myself, Of all the firearms I own, I’ve yet to purchase an AR-15, and only recently the (CX4 Storm) purchased a restricted rifle (all handguns are restricted mind you) with my reasoning that being restricted, I can only bring said rifle to a range, I can’t legally hunt with it, being semi-auto center fire it’s restricted to 5 round mags (There are loopholes to allow for 10 round mags mind you) and to be quite honest, I’ve had numerous opportunities to operate the “real thing” over the years (Select fire, fully automatic M-16/C7s, M-14s and FN FALs) and as such see no reason to jump up and down over one.

To be honest, over the last couple years, I’ve been thinking about getting one, but aside from used, due to US Government Arms restrictions limiting the export of rifles chambered in NATO rounds (5.56 NATO & 7.62 NATO) it’s rather difficult to get a quality Colt and/or Armalite produced one up here, and as such, one’s limited to namely local production, Chinese knock offs and “sporter versions”………Even my purchase of the Beretta Storm (Restricted carbine rifle) recently has been giving me second thoughts (Though a very good rifle) and I’ve been looking for ways to have a gunsmith lengthen the barrel (19” +) to have it deemed non-restricted or sell it.

All that being said, you wouldn’t regret getting a restricted licence, and though when using a restricted it must be at a licensed gun range and you a member of a club, and depending on your location, this might not be feasible, joining a gun club also wouldn’t be a bad idea for you……….You’d get lots of free tech support, advice/pointers and the opportunity to test fire many guns for free, or at the most, the cost of a bit of ammo and a coffee. (Seek out the old grand-pa’s, less BS that way)

The portability of the survival .22 has great appeal. Could be easily stowed in my kayak when I go on a wilderness trip. They're even waterproof, I gather.

edit to add: what about some of the other brands? Remington and Marlin also have value-priced .22 offerings.

-k

That is one aspect for sure (One of the main drivers in the design), but it is also (And can’t speak to the Henry Model exact) also one of the limiting “flaws of the design”……..It’s easy to “take down” but also easy to “break down”, in that the older ones were damaged very easily and not designed for “extended usage”……….For what it’s worth, you can get a folding stock for a Ruger 10/22 and with it, it won’t be much larger then the AR-7

As to the other brands, Marlin’s “value” I can’t really speak to other then make sure they’re made in the United States for QC purposes……..As to Remington, well nearly 1/3rd of my firearms are Remington but aside from an old Remington pump action .22 (That no longer works and is proving to be difficult finding parts) I’ve never owned a “modern” Remington .22lr……From what I’ve heard, their model 597 is “alright”, but unfortunately over the last decade or so, Remington’s QC for their value brands, including shotguns and larger calibre rifles has taken a nose dive……

Though you can certainly pay a lot of money for a very well made .22lr (see Browning or Sako/Tikka Bolt actions), without sounding like a broken record, the 10/22 is the benchmark for a .22lr under 300 bucks……..I have a number of Ruger products also (Semi auto, bolt actions and a few hand guns) and will say this about them, their QC is outstanding, their prices affordable and they are honourable (if needed) with their warranty……….And I tend to grab several of my Rugers for a days shooting over some very expensive other rifles I own.

Another option worth considering though, is once you get your RPAL, go to a gun store (Not a box gun store) and purchase a higher end, used bolt action .22lr like a Browning……Might be another way to go, and bolt actions are by far the most accurate rifle action and simple to maintain.

[kimmy]

With a .22 lr, regardless of brand, the recoil will be about the same, so if you felt comfortable with it, you should be good to go with whatever you select. The Key, aside from being comfortable, is to get the basics down and learn how to shoot well with a rifle in .22 calibre, then move on to the bigger stuff.

You have talked me into getting a .22 as my training gun, although I still want to get a Mosin as well. I do want to learn to shoot well. Speaking of: do you suggest a beginner should learn to shoot with the iron sights before getting a scope?

To be honest, yes. A great many of the owners of AR-15s in Canada are “mall ninjas”, with that said, there are segments of the community that utilize it’s inherent accuracy (for a semi-auto rifle) for competitive target shooting…….In some States it’s legal to hunt (small game & varmints) with and of course, there are those keen to the fact that an AR-15 is the most suited rifle, available to civilians in Canada, for the coming Zombie apocalypse

Why are AR-15s restricted in Canada, and what makes them more suited to the Zombie Apocalypse than other semi-automatic rifles?

As I've been looking through various Canadian online shops, I've seen semi-auto military surplus, a wide variety of military-wannabe type guns in .223 and 7.62, and semi-automatic hunting rifles chambered in extremely powerful ammunition... all classified as non-restricted. Is there something about an AR-15 that makes it more dangerous than an SKS or a Remington .30-06 semi-automatic hunting rifle? Or is it because the SKS looks like an antique and the Remington looks like a hunting rifle and the AR-15 looks like a hi-tech war machine?

Personally, I think that going down to the shooting range with a "mall commando" gun would be completely mortifying. I would feel like such a tool if I was out there with a gun that had this gigantic banana-shaped magazine on it that only holds 5 shots.

Even my purchase of the Beretta Storm (Restricted carbine rifle) recently has been giving me second thoughts (Though a very good rifle) and I’ve been looking for ways to have a gunsmith lengthen the barrel (19” +) to have it deemed non-restricted or sell it.

The amount of restrictions about transporting and using restricted weapons made me think it probably wouldn't be worth the money to own one.

All that being said, you wouldn’t regret getting a restricted licence, and though when using a restricted it must be at a licensed gun range and you a member of a club, and depending on your location, this might not be feasible, joining a gun club also wouldn’t be a bad idea for you……….You’d get lots of free tech support, advice/pointers and the opportunity to test fire many guns for free, or at the most, the cost of a bit of ammo and a coffee. (Seek out the old grand-pa’s, less BS that way)

I do plan to join the gun club here. They also have archery and a variety of activities, so it might be fun.

That is one aspect for sure (One of the main drivers in the design), but it is also (And can’t speak to the Henry Model exact) also one of the limiting “flaws of the design”……..It’s easy to “take down” but also easy to “break down”, in that the older ones were damaged very easily and not designed for “extended usage”……….For what it’s worth, you can get a folding stock for a Ruger 10/22 and with it, it won’t be much larger then the AR-7

On the survival issue... I have been informed that given my location and my interest in wilderness hiking and camping, I am actually more likely to encounter grizzly bears than zombies. To me this sounds highly controversial and somewhat suspect, but supposing it were true... what are your thoughts on grizzlies? I am well aware that the best way to survive a confrontation with a grizzly is to not have a confrontation with a grizzly and that common sense is your best defense... but if the bear-scat hits the fan and you've got an angry grizzly coming towards you... what would you reach for? A gun? Pepper spray? Or just go straight to the fetal position and protect your head?

If the answer is a gun, then what kind? I have read differing opinions about whether a .30-06 is adequate, and my future Mosin is (as I understand it) a couple of notches below a .30-06 in terms of power. I have also read that the high-powered magnum rifle rounds that are more effective against grizzlies are outside the realm of what the average shooter (let alone someone my size) can operate effectively. Any thoughts on bear defense?

Another option worth considering though, is once you get your RPAL, go to a gun store (Not a box gun store) and purchase a higher end, used bolt action .22lr like a Browning……Might be another way to go, and bolt actions are by far the most accurate rifle action and simple to maintain.

Once I have my shooting fundamentals down, I want to learn to shoot at longer range, and I am skeptical that a .22, however accurate, is a good choice for that. Although, a Mosin might not be either, due to the limitations inherent to an antique.

-k

[Guest Derek L]

You have talked me into getting a .22 as my training gun, although I still want to get a Mosin as well. I do want to learn to shoot well. Speaking of: do you suggest a beginner should learn to shoot with the iron sights before getting a scope?

You bet, iron sights all the way!!! It takes a lot more skill and if let’s say you’re hunting zombies and your scope breaks and you can’t shoot with iron sights to save your life, what good is the rifle to you? Basically, if you can learn to shoot well with iron sights, shooting with a intermediate ranged scope will come to you naturally and quite easy.

Why are AR-15s restricted in Canada, and what makes them more suited to the Zombie Apocalypse than other semi-automatic rifles?

There really is no good reason founded in logic as to why AR-15 are restricted other then they “look scary”.

As for their “suitability” for a “Zombie Apocalypse” , the thinking behind them in North America is that since they’re select fire, fully automatic cousin (M-16) is the primary battle rifle of the Americans, Canadians and Mexicans militaries there will be tons of “spare parts” and ammo lying (5.56 NATO/.223 REM) around and many with military experience have already handled/shot the rifle.

The Same is true with 9mm handguns, 12 gauge shotguns, .22 lr rifles and (My favourite) 7.62 NATO/.308 WIN rifles……..In Canada one could also include Lee Enfield No 4s and .303 British Ammo…

As I've been looking through various Canadian online shops, I've seen semi-auto military surplus, a wide variety of military-wannabe type guns in .223 and 7.62, and semi-automatic hunting rifles chambered in extremely powerful ammunition... all classified as non-restricted. Is there something about an AR-15 that makes it more dangerous than an SKS or a Remington .30-06 semi-automatic hunting rifle? Or is it because the SKS looks like an antique and the Remington looks like a hunting rifle and the AR-15 looks like a hi-tech war machine?

You answered the question yourself……..There is no sensible reason other then they look scary.

Personally, I think that going down to the shooting range with a "mall commando" gun would be completely mortifying. I would feel like such a tool if I was out there with a gun that had this gigantic banana-shaped magazine on it that only holds 5 shots.

I tend to agree, but I do have two of these for my boys:

Ruger SR-22

It's the 10/22 cousin and since it's not restricted and .22 rimfire, no mag limits..........As for the other Mag limits, like I said there are certain loopholes to say nothing of the fact that those 5/30 mags, are only “pinned” with a pop rivet and said rivet potentially could come out with a butter knife or leathermen

The amount of restrictions about transporting and using restricted weapons made me think it probably wouldn't be worth the money to own one.

If you'r planning to join a club anyway, it really wouldn't be that much more money.........Say you bought a Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm range kit

For storage, all you’d need is a cheapo Canadian Tire gun cabinet with a lock, keep the hand gun on the top shelf inside it with a ($15) trigger lock on it, with your Nagant, 10/22 and 870 Marine Magnum [see below].

As for transporting it, all you’d need is a pad lock for the case it comes with, and keep the trigger lock on inside it……There you go.

I do plan to join the gun club here. They also have archery and a variety of activities, so it might be fun.

Oh they certainly are, and if your range has archery, they probably also have “black powder” shooting…….Those people in their Davy Crockett outfits are always good for a laugh

On the survival issue... I have been informed that given my location and my interest in wilderness hiking and camping, I am actually more likely to encounter grizzly bears than zombies. To me this sounds highly controversial and somewhat suspect, but supposing it were true... what are your thoughts on grizzlies? I am well aware that the best way to survive a confrontation with a grizzly is to not have a confrontation with a grizzly and that common sense is your best defense... but if the bear-scat hits the fan and you've got an angry grizzly coming towards you... what would you reach for? A gun? Pepper spray? Or just go straight to the fetal position and protect your head?

If the answer is a gun, then what kind? I have read differing opinions about whether a .30-06 is adequate, and my future Mosin is (as I understand it) a couple of notches below a .30-06 in terms of power. I have also read that the high-powered magnum rifle rounds that are more effective against grizzlies are outside the realm of what the average shooter (let alone someone my size) can operate effectively. Any thoughts on bear defense?

I feel remise in not mentioning this prior, especially since you mentioned you go kayaking etc………Quite simply, when we go hunting we always have several shotguns with us. If you’re spending a lot of time in the wilderness, and not too picky about hunting, and want a gun that could one day save your life, against Grizzly Bears AND Zombies, and it’s rather fun to turn on tin cans with, what you need is one of these:

MODEL 870™ SPECIAL PURPOSE MARINE MAGNUM™

The Marine selection I should think obvious if you spend a lot of time on the water……..It will cost a bit more, but you don’t want your shotgun to malfunction when you need it. Stay away from the Remington “Express models” (Hit or miss QC) and if you want something alit bit cheaper, Mossberg 500s, but don’t spend your money on any other cheap model………

An 870 Pump (Not Express models), if taken care of and cleaned would be something you’ll pass onto your grandchildren…….It will set you back about $700 clams, but it is dependable and loaded with slugs would fend off a Polar Bear and 28 Days later type fast moving Zombies……..Not too mention, you could if required hunt everything from game birds to deer with one.

Once I have my shooting fundamentals down, I want to learn to shoot at longer range, and I am skeptical that a .22, however accurate, is a good choice for that. Although, a Mosin might not be either, due to the limitations inherent to an antique.

-k

That is correct for both rifles; .22s are not powerful enough for long range, and the Nagant, like most surplus battle rifles, unless heavily modified, rapidly lose accuracy after 300-400 yards…….If you want to get into long range shooting, brace yourself for spending a lot of money, but as a good compromise, I’d suggest a Remington 700 bolt action (police) rifle in .308 Winchester (I’ve got one) the price of ammo isn’t too bad, depending where you get if from, they’re usually drilled and tapped already for a scope…..Even still, be prepared to spend a couple of grand for a decent target rifle and scope.

[kimmy]

You bet, iron sights all the way!!! It takes a lot more skill and if let’s say you’re hunting zombies and your scope breaks and you can’t shoot with iron sights to save your life, what good is the rifle to you? Basically, if you can learn to shoot well with iron sights, shooting with a intermediate ranged scope will come to you naturally and quite easy.

And I assume I should probably start learning to shoot from a standing position? And just keep increasing distances as I become more proficient?

As for their “suitability” for a “Zombie Apocalypse” , the thinking behind them in North America is that since they’re select fire, fully automatic cousin (M-16) is the primary battle rifle of the Americans, Canadians and Mexicans militaries there will be tons of “spare parts” and ammo lying (5.56 NATO/.223 REM) around and many with military experience have already handled/shot the rifle.

I see. After the zombies wipe out our armed forces and police, there'll be a lot of ammo left over. Makes sense.

It's the 10/22 cousin and since it's not restricted and .22 rimfire, no mag limits..........As for the other Mag limits, like I said there are certain loopholes to say nothing of the fact that those 5/30 mags, are only “pinned” with a pop rivet and said rivet potentially could come out with a butter knife or leathermen

I'd never carry something that could get my ass in trouble with the 5-0 for owning a prohibited weapon. Although, if some apocalyptic event happened -- zombie bears, perhaps-- and the law ceased to have any meaning... then the Dremel set would come out.

If you'r planning to join a club anyway, it really wouldn't be that much more money.........Say you bought a Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm range kit

Don't you have to phone the RCMP to get a permit each time you want to transport a restricted gun anywhere? And aren't you prohibited from using it anywhere except for at a firing range? I dunno, it seems like a lot of money for a lot of hassle.

Oh they certainly are, and if your range has archery, they probably also have “black powder” shooting…….Those people in their Davy Crockett outfits are always good for a laugh

They do indeed have something like that-- some sort of competitive sport combining period costume and timed target shooting. I don't believe black powder weapons are required-- just stuff that looks vintage. Revolvers and lever action rifles, I gather. Everybody has to dress up and choose a genre alias.

I admit that this sort of thing has a sort of appeal, perhaps in the same sense as the Mosin. The mystique of history. Perhaps it's the same sort of thing that makes some people want to keep their Model T's on the road, or find ways to surf the internet on 1980s vintage computers. Were I to get involved in such silliness, however, it would be for the costumes. I would get a dress with a gigantic bustle, and a lace bonnet, and call myself "Calamity Kim McCoy".

I feel remise in not mentioning this prior, especially since you mentioned you go kayaking etc………Quite simply, when we go hunting we always have several shotguns with us. If you’re spending a lot of time in the wilderness, and not too picky about hunting, and want a gun that could one day save your life, against Grizzly Bears AND Zombies, and it’s rather fun to turn on tin cans with, what you need is one of these:

MODEL 870™ SPECIAL PURPOSE MARINE MAGNUM™

Lately I have been spending more and more time thinking about being in the wilderness. How far could I go if I stuffed my gear in my backpack and just started walking? Where could I go if I loaded up my kayak and set out to get as far away from civilization as possible? and stuff like that. In part these ideas come from sort of a silly romanticized idea of what it would be like to get away...

...but in other respects it's driven by something darker and more paranoid. Sometimes I have this irrational feeling that maybe some day my life will depend on getting as far away from civilization as possible. Of course a Zombie Apocalypse is the obvious scenario, but it could be something else like a nuclear war or natural disaster or a complete economic or social meltdown that makes everybody turn on everybody else. It's more a feeling than a result of any rational thought process... nonetheless I sometimes feel like we're all going to kill and eat each other like rats trapped in a bucket, and the only way to survive will be to sneak out of the bucket before the other rats realize they're trapped...

Anyway, at some point in my life I want to buy the most remote piece of wilderness property I can afford and eventually make a home there. Firearms are probably a necessary part of the lifestyle.

An 870 Pump (Not Express models), if taken care of and cleaned would be something you’ll pass onto your grandchildren…….It will set you back about $700 clams, but it is dependable and loaded with slugs would fend off a Polar Bear and 28 Days later type fast moving Zombies……..Not too mention, you could if required hunt everything from game birds to deer with one.

So by slugs, you mean this sort of thing? Are there any restrictions on what kind of slugs you can use in Canada? If you're stopped by a conservation officer and he discovers you've got some kind of vicious slugs in your shotgun, are you going to get in trouble?

That is correct for both rifles; .22s are not powerful enough for long range, and the Nagant, like most surplus battle rifles, unless heavily modified, rapidly lose accuracy after 300-400 yards…….If you want to get into long range shooting, brace yourself for spending a lot of money, but as a good compromise, I’d suggest a Remington 700 bolt action (police) rifle in .308 Winchester (I’ve got one) the price of ammo isn’t too bad, depending where you get if from, they’re usually drilled and tapped already for a scope…..Even still, be prepared to spend a couple of grand for a decent target rifle and scope.

I can't imagine myself getting into it to the point that I needed a rifle that costs more than my car. I think that if I buy an appropriate and decent-quality gun, then if my skills ever reach the point where the limitations of the firearm become a serious concern... I'll be doing really well.

-kalamity kim.

{"Be ye a Hatfield or a McCoy?"}

[Guest Derek L]

And I assume I should probably start learning to shoot from a standing position? And just keep increasing distances as I become more proficient?

A standing position is the most difficult to shoot accurate with prone (on your belly) being the easiest……If you get proficient and can hit what you aim at standing out to ~200 yards, you’re doing pretty good

I see. After the zombies wipe out our armed forces and police, there'll be a lot of ammo left over. Makes sense.

That's the idea (Also the idea behind NATO Standardization for a battlefield), with that said, if the army and police are all wiped out by the brain eaters, they're be alot of guns about to try

I'd never carry something that could get my ass in trouble with the 5-0 for owning a prohibited weapon. Although, if some apocalyptic event happened -- zombie bears, perhaps-- and the law ceased to have any meaning... then the Dremel set would come out.

This is very true! You get caught with a high capacity magazine, sans the pin, there’s a good chance you’ll be going to jail. As I said though, there are many loopholes, for instance there are several makers of 5.56/.223 calibre pistols that have mags that just happen to fit into a AR-15, hence a perfectly legal 10 round mag. Or with handguns, for instance a 9mm Smith & Wesson M&P or a Beretta 92 9mm just happen to take (and feed properly) a .40 SW Smith & Wesson M&P and Beretta 96 .40 SW magazines, which if one put 9mm ammo into a .40 SW mag (10mm) and loaded said mag into a 9mm pistol, you get 14 rounds of 9mm instead of 10. Again perfectly legal

And of course, there’s no restrictions on mag capacities for Bolt, lever or pump action center fire rifles and shotguns. (And as mentioned no limit on .22lr Rifles, but 10 round limit for .22lr handguns)

Don't you have to phone the RCMP to get a permit each time you want to transport a restricted gun anywhere? And aren't you prohibited from using it anywhere except for at a firing range? I dunno, it seems like a lot of money for a lot of hassle.

Nope. For example, say you bought yourself a little handgun. Prior you’d have to be a member of a certified gun club, and as such you could get what’s called a ATT (Authorization to Transport). Now once you go to the store and purchase your gun, the dealer will register it with the RCMP for you and obtain a temp ATT that allows you to bring the gun home. Once you’re home and you have a regular ATT through your gun club, you’re entitled to bring your handgun, without notification of anyone, anywhere in BC, to a licensed:

1. Gun Club

2. Gun Range

3. Gun Show

4. Gunsmith

5. Port of Entry (Border crossing and Airport)

To stay legal, all you have to do is renew your RPAL every 5 years and your membership to a gun club once a year. My advice, would be to join the club I belong to which would have you covered throughout BC:

Silvercore

It will cost you $30 bucks a year and will allow you to take your handgun, as much or as little to your local gun range as you want and pay their drop in fee (mostly just $5-10 bucks a visit) and/or join the local club.

They do indeed have something like that-- some sort of competitive sport combining period costume and timed target shooting. I don't believe black powder weapons are required-- just stuff that looks vintage. Revolvers and lever action rifles, I gather. Everybody has to dress up and choose a genre alias.

I admit that this sort of thing has a sort of appeal, perhaps in the same sense as the Mosin. The mystique of history. Perhaps it's the same sort of thing that makes some people want to keep their Model T's on the road, or find ways to surf the internet on 1980s vintage computers. Were I to get involved in such silliness, however, it would be for the costumes. I would get a dress with a gigantic bustle, and a lace bonnet, and call myself "Calamity Kim McCoy".

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve got a hand full of old WW II (and era)battle rifles (Lee Enfield’s, M1 Garand, Mauser K98 sniper rifle and a crate full of SKS’s) and a couple of old Winchester 94’s (One an ex-RCMP rifle from the 1920s) and I’d love to get an original Colt Peacemaker. I shoot them all, but the Mauser, Garand and Winchesters sparingly since the ammo is expensive……..But I don’t get dressed up (Not allowed to)

I’d defiantly suggest once you’ve got your Nagant, pick-up an SKS and a Lee Enfield no 4.…..Even if you don’t shoot them often (You will though) they will be worth a lot of money in 20-30 years……..I can remember in the 70s going into surplus stores with my Dad and they’d have garbage bins full of Lee Enfield’s for $25-50 bucks………Aside from one “sporterized”, you’d be hard pressed to find one in orginal (beat-up) condition for less then $500 bucks and in good condition you’re looking over $1000.…..I’ve had several people offer $2000+ for my M1 Garand, I paid about $500 bucks for it 20 years ago……..It’s quite possible those $200 Nagants and SKS’s will be worth some good money in a decade or so……..The only problem with Soviet Rifles is that they use Soviet ammo, and though you can buy surplus rather cheap still, who knows how long that will last, .303 British use to be cheap but is getting expensive.

Lately I have been spending more and more time thinking about being in the wilderness. How far could I go if I stuffed my gear in my backpack and just started walking? Where could I go if I loaded up my kayak and set out to get as far away from civilization as possible? and stuff like that. In part these ideas come from sort of a silly romanticized idea of what it would be like to get away... ...but in other respects it's driven by something darker and more paranoid. Sometimes I have this irrational feeling that maybe some day my life will depend on getting as far away from civilization as possible. Of course a Zombie Apocalypse is the obvious scenario, but it could be something else like a nuclear war or natural disaster or a complete economic or social meltdown that makes everybody turn on everybody else. It's more a feeling than a result of any rational thought process... nonetheless I sometimes feel like we're all going to kill and eat each other like rats trapped in a bucket, and the only way to survive will be to sneak out of the bucket before the other rats realize they're trapped...

Anyway, at some point in my life I want to buy the most remote piece of wilderness property I can afford and eventually make a home there. Firearms are probably a necessary part of the lifestyle.

I can certainly understand your sentiments and many people also have that fear concern in the back of their minds………Is a SHTF type scenario possible? I would say unlikely, but having the ability and skill sets to take care of yourself and family members certainly isn’t a bad idea (And would help quell any possible fears), but having the ability to fish/hunt, start a fire, perform first aid etc are also transferable “life skills” that can certainly be useful (and fun) in your regular day to day life.

For firearms specifically, it’s also one of “culture” and how an individual was “brought up”……My parents and myself (and most of my family) have always leaned toward the sporting aspect namely, with some members also having served in the military…….Some people grew up in the bush or on a farm where a gun was just another tool……..And some, like my wife, grew up in situations where a gun was used in the about aspects, but also as a tool for self defence…….Her growing up in South Africa in the 60s & 70s & 80s, it was to norm in the rural parts to have firearms for hunting and full automatics for self defence.

Ultimately knowledge is more powerful then a gun, but the two combined, is a winning combination.

So by slugs, you mean this sort of thing? Are there any restrictions on what kind of slugs you can use in Canada? If you're stopped by a conservation officer and he discovers you've got some kind of vicious slugs in your shotgun, are you going to get in trouble?

Yup, I've got boxes of them and these from the same maker: 12 Ga 00 Buckshot Z-MAX™ 2-3/4"

Pretty much any ammo you can buy in Canada is alright if you’re stopped……..Now if you’re hunting without a licence, and with the wrong ammo, you most certainly will get into the poop.

Basically, if you are off hiking and camping, at most they might stop you and ask to see your firearms licence and you’ll be on your way……If it’s hunting season, and you’re loaded with hunting gear etc, they might ask a few more questions, but all in all, you’ll be alright if you tell them it’s for bear defence.

I can't imagine myself getting into it to the point that I needed a rifle that costs more than my car. I think that if I buy an appropriate and decent-quality gun, then if my skills ever reach the point where the limitations of the firearm become a serious concern... I'll be doing really well.

-kalamity kim.

{"Be ye a Hatfield or a McCoy?"}

This is true and guns can certainly become very expensive, very quick and I’ve seen many a shooter with a $3000 rifle and a $2000 scope and they can’t hit anything past 200 yards……It’s rather quite funny.

As I’ve said, for those on a budget, surplus battle rifles are most defiantly a good choice. They’re made to last, be operated in horrendous conditions, dropped, kicked, dirty, wet etc and maintained by a 17 year old. As far as commercial firearms goes, in terms of reliability and best value for money, hands down, in my opinion and millions of other shooters, Ruger is the way to go.

Though I’ve always fancied myself a Chris Adams, and reality would put it closer to a Rooster Cogburn, for these pupose I'll settle with McCoy