eyeball Posted April 24, 2012 Report Posted April 24, 2012 Yes we all need to be more informed by the lobby on your side.. I dont care how you feel about this, if we believed in evolution and natural selection we would provide these people no support and either let them find their own way or perish How the frick are we supposed to inform an audience that comes at the issue with something as dumb as the notion that evolution and natural selection comprise a fundamental aspect of our nation's governance and or management? I do recall seeing God in our Constitution but not Darwin. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Savant Posted April 24, 2012 Report Posted April 24, 2012 I want effective programs that will help them. On the other hand, you continue to advocate for approaches that have proven not only ineffective, but in some cases harmful for users.Oh? And you consider allowing a pregnant woman to shoot up is cool? Because that is precisely what happens. No effort is made to stop a woman from using Insite while pregnant, despite EVERYONE knowing what will happen to that baby.I'm not advocating "for approaches that have proven ... harmful for users" - since by definition detoxification is a process to REDUCE harm to that person's body by detoxifying them. Allowing them to continue to shoot up is what is harmful to users. The damage done to these addicts is often irreversible when they reach the point where they are so far gone that they look for help voluntarily. When people can't make rational decisions for themselves, society must make them. Shooting galleries aren't a solution, they are a head-in-the-sand response. Quote
eyeball Posted April 24, 2012 Report Posted April 24, 2012 No effort is made to stop a woman from using Insite while pregnant, despite EVERYONE knowing what will happen to that baby. What do the authorities at government liquor stores do when pregnant women buy liquor? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Savant Posted April 25, 2012 Report Posted April 25, 2012 What do the authorities at government liquor stores do when pregnant women buy liquor? Buying alcohol doesn't harm a fetus, drinking it does. Quote
cybercoma Posted April 25, 2012 Report Posted April 25, 2012 How the frick are we supposed to inform an audience that comes at the issue with something as dumb as the notion that evolution and natural selection comprise a fundamental aspect of our nation's governance and or management? I do recall seeing God in our Constitution but not Darwin. Not to mention governments in Canada did follow huh's thinking. We had eugenics boards from the 20s until the 70s that were sterilizing people they deemed 'mentally defective'. You know, because sterilizing people will fix all of society's social problems. It's an argument that's not based at all in reality and should have died in the gas chambers of Auschwitz, but for some reason we still have people that think it's valid. Quote
cybercoma Posted April 25, 2012 Report Posted April 25, 2012 Oh? And you consider allowing a pregnant woman to shoot up is cool? Because that is precisely what happens. No effort is made to stop a woman from using Insite while pregnant, despite EVERYONE knowing what will happen to that baby. I'm not advocating "for approaches that have proven ... harmful for users" - since by definition detoxification is a process to REDUCE harm to that person's body by detoxifying them. Allowing them to continue to shoot up is what is harmful to users. The damage done to these addicts is often irreversible when they reach the point where they are so far gone that they look for help voluntarily. When people can't make rational decisions for themselves, society must make them. Shooting galleries aren't a solution, they are a head-in-the-sand response. You know coming off some drugs like heroin, meth, and even heavy alcohol dependency cold turkey is actually more detrimental to someone's health than the drugs, right? That's why they've had methadone clinics for ages. And you continue to ignore the fact that forcing someone into recovery has an incredibly high failure rate. Convincing someone they can recover and showing them others that have successfully done so is infinitely more effective. I'm done even talking about this with you because you absolutely refuse to deal with evidence that contradicts nearly everything you have offered as a solution. Since you're not concerned with actually addressing those things, there's no point in continuing to watch you ramble on with your dogmatic views. Quote
eyeball Posted April 25, 2012 Report Posted April 25, 2012 Buying alcohol doesn't harm a fetus, drinking it does. Providing the alcohol enables the drinking. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Shakeyhands Posted April 25, 2012 Report Posted April 25, 2012 Yes we all need to be more informed by the lobby on your side.. Did you even bother to research what they do, if you read the link that was provided you would see that there are options offered to the addicts. Some of these realities are so obvious that i honestly believe most of your aren't all that intelligent. Ummmm... Pot? Is that you? Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
cybercoma Posted April 25, 2012 Report Posted April 25, 2012 Buying alcohol doesn't harm a fetus, drinking it does. Let's decriminalize the sale and distribution of narcotics then. After all, buying alcohol doesn't harm anyone, consuming it does. Quote
Black Dog Posted April 25, 2012 Report Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) Yes we all need to be more informed by the lobby on your side.. I dont care how you feel about this, if we believed in evolution and natural selection we would provide these people no support and either let them find their own way or perish, but no, you want to help them even if they wont help themselves. Ok, i am not totally against that, we do have some responsibility as a society to help those less fortunate, but tell me, who decides when we have done enough? Who decides when the rich have paid enough taxes, or that the welfare recipients get enough money, or that single mom has had too many children? Do you think you should decide? Is it your ideology that should reign, everyone needs to be 'helped' no one is truly responsible for themselves? Is there some point at which we say no? Because for some of you there doesn't seem to be a line, how much tax should the rich pay..seventy five percent? I have zero doubt that at least a few here would be fine with that. At some point what you want is full blown socialism or communism. We should help people, but not at the expense of consequences for bad and often repeatedly bad decisions. Why do you think you get to draw that lines? But you do? Edited April 25, 2012 by Black Dog Quote
Wayne McQ. Posted May 6, 2012 Report Posted May 6, 2012 Yeah when your kid steps on a dirty needle in the park playground, that's when you'll see "the light". Are you really naive enough to think that enabling addicts to stay high is helping the peoblem? We have Mayors and former Mayors from BC running around telling us all that Marijuana should be legalied, becuase of the gang violence between the competing gangs for a share of the drug profits. THey are naive enough to believe that legalizing marijuena will somehow eliminate the violence concerning illegal drugs. I'm here to tell you that this is just stupid thinking, because the same people that are selling pot are the same people that are trafficking in Meth,Heroine, Cocaine, Crack-Cocaine Ecstasy as well as a mariad of prescription drugs, and they have no intentions of giving up this easy source of income. Quote
Guest Manny Posted May 6, 2012 Report Posted May 6, 2012 Are you really naive enough to think that enabling addicts to stay high is helping the peoblem? We have Mayors and former Mayors from BC running around telling us all that Marijuana should be legalied, becuase of the gang violence between the competing gangs for a share of the drug profits. THey are naive enough to believe that legalizing marijuena will somehow eliminate the violence concerning illegal drugs. I'm here to tell you that this is just stupid thinking, because the same people that are selling pot are the same people that are trafficking in Meth,Heroine, Cocaine, Crack-Cocaine Ecstasy as well as a mariad of prescription drugs, and they have no intentions of giving up this easy source of income. We've been over all that a few times already. Prohibition is what empowers the criminals. It's not about keeping people high, it's about harm reduction, and reducing violence. Quote
eyeball Posted May 6, 2012 Report Posted May 6, 2012 Are you really naive enough to think that enabling addicts to stay high is helping the peoblem? We have Mayors and former Mayors from BC running around telling us all that Marijuana should be legalied, becuase of the gang violence between the competing gangs for a share of the drug profits. THey are naive enough to believe that legalizing marijuena will somehow eliminate the violence concerning illegal drugs. I'm here to tell you that this is just stupid thinking, because the same people that are selling pot are the same people that are trafficking in Meth,Heroine, Cocaine, Crack-Cocaine Ecstasy as well as a mariad of prescription drugs, and they have no intentions of giving up this easy source of income. That's why you have to legalize everything. When so many people intend to take drugs what are you going to do? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
BubberMiley Posted May 6, 2012 Report Posted May 6, 2012 I'm here to tell you that this is just stupid thinking, because the same people that are selling pot are the same people that are trafficking in Meth,Heroine, Cocaine, Crack-Cocaine Ecstasy as well as a mariad of prescription drugs, and they have no intentions of giving up this easy source of income. Is that a threat? What will you do if your source of income is taken away from you? Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
Vendetta Posted May 6, 2012 Report Posted May 6, 2012 We could probably start a thread called "keeping junk from junkies and charging the cost to us". The cost to keep drugs prohibited is in fact much higher than it would be to allow "junkies" to maintain their habit. The cost to keep prohibition going is huge and multi-faceted. Quote
Savant Posted May 6, 2012 Report Posted May 6, 2012 We've been over all that a few times already. Prohibition is what empowers the criminals.Of course... And we all know that since booze and cigarettes are legal there isn't a single instance of criminals selling 'underground' or 'contraband' booze or cigarettes. AmIrite? Eh? Quote
eyeball Posted May 6, 2012 Report Posted May 6, 2012 Of course... And we all know that since booze and cigarettes are legal there isn't a single instance of criminals selling 'underground' or 'contraband' booze or cigarettes. AmIrite? Eh? True enough, notice though how government's are always finding new ways to inspire and invite criminal behaviour. Notice too how the amount of criminality you're talking about is truly minuscule in comparison to what everyone else is talking about. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
CPCFTW Posted May 6, 2012 Report Posted May 6, 2012 Giving junk to junkies? We already have two threads about the quebec free tuition junkies! Quote
BubberMiley Posted May 6, 2012 Report Posted May 6, 2012 Education is like heroin? Wasn't that Rick Santorum's platform? Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
Guest Peeves Posted May 7, 2012 Report Posted May 7, 2012 Education is like heroin? Wasn't that Rick Santorum's platform? That sounds more staged than platformed? Quote
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