Harris Conservatives Government Legacy

[August1991]

I can go on forever about tolls and economics.

The 407 is just deficit spending by another name and in that manner it does represent Harris' legacy. The government sold the highway for 3.1 billion in 1999 and now Ontarians will have to pay the company in question tolls for the next 90 some years. As we see the government even loses the rights to set the tolls.

Now you can make a case that roads ought to be funded by the province if you like. Nothing stops us from building another road, if that is what we want, and making it free to anyone who chooses to use it. Personally, I don't have a problem with the user-pay system. It means I'm not out of pocket so that drivers in Toronto can get where they want a little faster.

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I think you guys are all missing my point. So let me give another example, from London England which is using the same 407 technology. (It has also been adopted in San Diego.) This is cutting edge stuff.

London drivers will be able to purchase daily, weekly (£25), monthly (£110) or annual (£1,250) passes by post, phone, online, or in newsagents, shops or garages.

The registration numbers of those paying will be entered into a database. Fixed and mobile cameras trained on the number plates of cars entering central London will search out non-complying vehicles.

BBC on London Congestion Tolls

This new technology makes toll roads viable in a way that was never possible before. It is now possible to bill people for road use the same they are billed for cell phone use. Tolls can be set to congestion times.

I don't care whether the road is private or public, the issue is that urban drivers now spend hours every day staring into space. This is a huge waste of time on a par with the kind of waste in the Soviet Union. The issue is not about paying for road maintenance or even pollution. It is specifically about paying for congestion - the space a car takes on a road during critical times of the day.

Red Ken Livingstone was one of the first politicians to understand it. Others are sure to follow.

[takeanumber]

I can literally go on for a few hours on the London example.

I won't bore everybody with it.

I'll just say this: that policy has had several negative, unexpected consequences.

[August1991]

I can literally go on for a few hours on the London example.

I won't bore everybody with it.

Why not?

[Big Blue Machine]

No, don't. Save us the trouble of listening to you.

[takeanumber]

Because it's boring, but alright, here goes.

It has shifted traffic to the early morning hours, so many people get into work much earlier and leave much later.

It has driven consumers out of the city core, hitting inner city businesses.

It has caused severe traffic and increased congestion all around the ring of the fair zone. Instead of driving straight through, people are driving around, so although traffic is better for a small part of the city, it has gotten especially worse in other parts.

The Tubes were already over capacity. Now they're much more so. With recent upgrades and repairs (which are being done by a private company, BTW), it has become much worse.

There are popular tourist areas which are now relatively desolate because of the fares.

By some accounts, because of the increased commute times, pollution may be down in the inner core, on a net basis, it's up.

and on and on and on....

[August1991]

Because it's boring, but alright, here goes.

TalkNumb, your posts are obstinate but never, absolutely never, boring.

It has shifted traffic to the early morning hours, so many people get into work much earlier and leave much later.

Who has shifted? Bet it's the people who can do so at least cost. IOW, put the incentive where it does the most good. (I was irritated that the 407 didn't post prices - particularly before the decision to take the on-ramp. In the US, "Last Exit Before Toll" was always clear.)

It has driven consumers out of the city core, hitting inner city businesses.

Inner city business loses a rent. Boo-hoo.

It has caused severe traffic and increased congestion all around the ring of the fair zone. Instead of driving straight through, people are driving around, so although traffic is better for a small part of the city, it has gotten especially worse in other parts.

I used to hit my head with hammer five times a day - now he only does it three times a day. (PS. You seen any studies on property values?)

The Tubes were already over capacity. Now they're much more so. With recent upgrades and repairs (which are being done by a private company, BTW), it has become much worse.

Raise Tube prices. A major problem in London is that some people simply will not live in some places. And some offices simply must be in some places. Some people will pay anything to get something. Snobbism. You want it, you pay for it. Even the moralistic, fairness-obsessed Old Left would agree with that.

There are popular tourist areas which are now relatively desolate because of the fares.

Of course, Londoners should subsidize Japanese tourists. They bring all that money to the economy!

By some accounts, because of the increased commute times, pollution may be down in the inner core, on a net basis, it's up.

IOW, the environment can cope with car exhausts now because the emissions are not concentrated.

and on and on and on....

Your list reads like a Soviet professor confused because Russians must now pay a "high price" for gasoline rather than sit in an interminable queue.