Signals.Cpl Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 moral sellout supporter of corrupt politicians Stephen Harper is not Canada, he is a person who gained his position through repeated electoral frauds. You don't get that being an apologist as in the first half of your post. You don't need to make anything when it is already that. If you don't scoop the scum off the top it just builds clouding the view. That is exactly why the criminal and corrupt parties such as the Conservative Party of Canada need to be removed, so that good politicians have room and aren't drowned out and oppressed and disfranchised by the corrupt. It is only being pervasive in destroying a moral social fabric within Canada. I stated that there are corrupt politicians not that I approve or agree with them and defend them in any way shape or form. To insinuate I support corruption means you either lack ethics yourself or you lack the ability to read. Read my post again, and this time try to tune down the propaganda machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Source? Do you have a funny little thing called proof? ... I gave you the outcome..the nuts and bolts.. punk gave you the link.. and you said.. thankyou and moved on. You are welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 ... I gave you the outcome..the nuts and bolts.. punk gave you the link.. and you said.. thankyou and moved on. You are welcome. Yeah, well the link said the conservatives might or might not have committed fraud. The numbers do not match up. I am more interested in this quote: The real trick is recovery of the billions of embezzled tax dollars that went to conservative slush funds. People can't make a comment like that without proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Yeah, well the link said the conservatives might or might not have committed fraud. The numbers do not match up. I am more interested in this quote: People can't make a comment like that without proof. Yes the article written before the Cons plead guilty to the crime said it was alleged like all crimes before someone pleads guilty/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Yes the article written before the Cons plead guilty to the crime said it was alleged like all crimes before someone pleads guilty/ I am more interested in this The real trick is recovery of the billions of embezzled tax dollars that went to conservative slush funds. Making a claim that someone has embezzled billions of tax dollars is serious and needs some serious evidence. Even if all conservative candidates scammed the government for 100,000 dollars each that adds up to 30.8 million, if they all embezzled 1million then its 308million... Still nowhere near a billion let alone billions. The claim was made that the conservatives stole billions while you provide evidence for hundreds of thousands. Give me proof for this claim: The real trick is recovery of the billions of embezzled tax dollars that went to conservative slush funds. that specifically states billions were embezzled by the conservatives and if the claim cannot be supported with facts as is likely the case withdraw the slander of such immense proportions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 (edited) I am more interested in this Making a claim that someone has embezzled billions of tax dollars is serious and needs some serious evidence. Even if all conservative candidates scammed the government for 100,000 dollars each that adds up to 30.8 million, if they all embezzled 1million then its 308million... Still nowhere near a billion let alone billions. The claim was made that the conservatives stole billions while you provide evidence for hundreds of thousands. Give me proof for this claim: that specifically states billions were embezzled by the conservatives and if the claim cannot be supported with facts as is likely the case withdraw the slander of such immense proportions. Give it a break 1 dollar a billion they stole them from me and you just like the Liberals. You know what they say you steal 10 dollars you are thief you steal a million you are the government or a banker. Edited April 12, 2012 by punked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 (edited) The real trick is recovery of the billions of embezzled tax dollars that went to conservative slush funds I was also interested in seeing the proof of that claim. So far though, bupkis. Edited April 12, 2012 by Shady Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I was also interested in seeing the proof of that claim. So far though, bupkis. Only because you know it is an argument you can win. The argument you can win though is justifying why the Conservatives took Canadian money they were not entitled to? Kinda like the Liberals they are. In-and-out is the new Adscam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Give it a break 1 dollar a billion they stole them from me and you just like the Liberals. You know what they say you steal 10 dollars you are thief you steal a million you are the government or a banker. So in other words MACKER is a liar, otherwise we would have the source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 So in other words MACKER is a liar, otherwise we would have the source. Sounded like a lie to me. Although he is right the Conservatives did take money from Canadians that they shouldn't have. In the end isn't that why we kicked the Liberals out? Does the size of the crime really make that much of a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Sounded like a lie to me. Although he is right the Conservatives did take money from Canadians that they shouldn't have. In the end isn't that why we kicked the Liberals out? Does the size of the crime really make that much of a difference. Yes it does. I think we should keep the crime in perspective and avoid inflating the numbers as somewhere down the road people can become desensitized to the crimes committed. It goes from an MP charging a government card for 500 dollars to the MP charging the card for ONLY 500 dollars. The bigger the perceived crime the less likely people will be to pay attention to something smaller. Think about it, if a government employee is caught doing something wrong/criminal, there is outrage. Now imagine if 1,000 were caught then suddenly it becomes a non story. There will always be corruption in any large governing body, we likely will never be able to completely eliminate corruption but we can try and get every corrupt official big or small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Yeah, well the link said the conservatives might or might not have committed fraud. The numbers do not match up. I am more interested in this quote: LMAO Have a nice day... GUILTY as plead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 LMAO Have a nice day... GUILTY as plead. Billion dollar guilty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Billion dollar guilty? I suppose this is progress... you accept there was Harper Conservative fraud... now, you're only quibbling about the extent of it, hey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 "Only if and when the Conservatives steal a Billion dollars will I stop defending them" Is this your position Signals.Cpl? Because that is what it seems like you are saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) "Only if and when the Conservatives steal a Billion dollars will I stop defending them" Is this your position Signals.Cpl? Because that is what it seems like you are saying. How did you get to that conclusion? I really want to know WHERE and WHEN I said THAT? Be Generous with the relevant quotes where i said that. Edited April 13, 2012 by Signals.Cpl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 How did you get to that conclusion? I really want to know WHERE and WHEN I said THAT? Be Generous with the relevant quotes where i said that. Because every time someone points out this in and out was stealing money from the tax payers you say "Well was it a billion dollars?" You can see how I get that conclusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Because every time someone points out this in and out was stealing money from the tax payers you say "Well was it a billion dollars?" You can see how I get that conclusion. Well, I was really interested because it is such an obvious bullshit claim that renders the entire argument of corruption comical. If there are 3 accusation are that 1)a number of Conservative MPs scammed hundreds of thousands of dollars and you prove it great. 2)that there was election irregularity 3)then there are the billions of embezzled tax dollars that went to conservative slush funds. Number 1 and 2 are accusations that might or might not have happened but they are believable and can be proven if they did or did not happen, but then we get to the 3rd claim and thats what I want proof. That precisely why that accusation is stupid, and other like it detract from the serious conversation that is needed. Frequent untrue and exaggerated comments like the one above are pushing me to take serious and factual crimes less and less serious when it comes to the conservatives due to the almost weekly "scandal". I am not a conservative apologist but I do believe that we should keep accusations in in line with the crimes. When it comes to your position it seems to me that you are so intent on finding a crime you would be willing to overlook the truth or exaggerate a crime in order to support your view that the conservatives are the big bad wolf. Reality is they are not better or worse then any other party(Except BQ) and are no more or less corrupt then any other party. We need to punish those who are corrupt and do so regardless of the party they belong to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 When it comes to your position it seems to me that you are so intent on finding a crime you would be willing to overlook the truth or exaggerate a crime in order to support your view that the conservatives are the big bad wolf. Reality is they are not better or worse then any other party(Except BQ) and are no more or less corrupt then any other party. We need to punish those who are corrupt and do so regardless of the party they belong to. Here is my position which I take from Reform friends of mine who have joined my riding association in the last year and I think they are right about this one. They tell this comes from the Mulroney days and they applied it adscam and they are applying it here as well. "If a party any party does something that is clearly wrong, like stealing money from us the tax payer. Not spending it unwisely or doing something that we disagree with with it but clearly something illegal. If you don't punish them ie stop voting for them then you are approving of it and that can not be tolerated because then any party voted for in the future can and will do it. They may steal more or they may steal less but they know they can get away with it. That means once any party does it you have to throw them out so all parties know this is a third rail and if you do it Canadians will not tolerate it. It is the same reason no one touches health care." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 "If a party any party does something that is clearly wrong, like stealing money from us the tax payer. Not spending it unwisely or doing something that we disagree with with it but clearly something illegal. If you don't punish them ie stop voting for them then you are approving of it and that can not be tolerated because then any party voted for in the future can and will do it. They may steal more or they may steal less but they know they can get away with it. That means once any party does it you have to throw them out so all parties know this is a third rail and if you do it Canadians will not tolerate it. It is the same reason no one touches health care." I am not arguing that, I never did. I think Canadians in general deserve everything they get in federal elections because during the 1990's the Liberals kept screwing the country but kept being reelected. My personal opinion is that we need serious reforms in order to improve our system and one of those would be to eliminate the party system so that an MP votes based on the desires of the constituents that they represent rather then the party wishes which may me different then what the constituents want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 Here is my position which I take from Reform friends of mine who have joined my riding association in the last year and I think they are right about this one. They tell this comes from the Mulroney days and they applied it adscam and they are applying it here as well. What I want to see is the proof of the outrageous crimes by the conservatives since there were none we can assume the claim was an outright lie and now we can get back to the discussion on hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 What I want to see is the proof of the outrageous crimes by the conservatives since there were none we can assume the claim was an outright lie and now we can get back to the discussion on hand. What you want to do is move the Adscam goal posts. Now it is no longer "The Liberals stole Canadians money" it is now "The Liberals stole more money from Canadians" which isn't the right position to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 What you want to do is move the Adscam goal posts. Now it is no longer "The Liberals stole Canadians money" it is now "The Liberals stole more money from Canadians" which isn't the right position to have. What I want is when you or anyone else makes a statement, they can back it up. If they cannot then admit it rather then trying to circle around the issue. I have no problem discussing the Conservatives, and any crimes they might commit or have committed. My main problem is with your attempt to support an accusation that is an outright lie and you are trying to steer the conversation away from it. The real trick is recovery of the billions of embezzled tax dollars that went to conservative slush funds. This was BS, I know it, you know it so why don't you stop trying to twist everything I say to fit your agenda? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 What I want is when you or anyone else makes a statement, they can back it up. If they cannot then admit it rather then trying to circle around the issue. I have no problem discussing the Conservatives, and any crimes they might commit or have committed. My main problem is with your attempt to support an accusation that is an outright lie and you are trying to steer the conversation away from it. This was BS, I know it, you know it so why don't you stop trying to twist everything I say to fit your agenda? I have no clue what you are talking about. You have grabbed on to this billion dollar thing and refuse to talk about anything else not me. I am trying to talk about the Cons stealing Canadians money and you down playing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 (edited) I have no clue what you are talking about. You have grabbed on to this billion dollar thing and refuse to talk about anything else not me. I am trying to talk about the Cons stealing Canadians money and you down playing it. It is actually simple, take a stand for once in your life. Do you back up the BS quote or not? The real trick is recovery of the billions of embezzled tax dollars that went to conservative slush funds Edited April 14, 2012 by Signals.Cpl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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