Bullets storage rule, shot down

[Jack Weber]

I'm not sure what your point is here. By then they were in charge of the military. The idea that individual citizens with their dear guns can rush out and take on an organized, heavily armed military is pure fantasy.

Thank you...

[Guest Derek L]

I'm not sure what your point is here. By then they were in charge of the military. The idea that individual citizens with their dear guns can rush out and take on an organized, heavily armed military is pure fantasy.

The Germany military and police services circa 1935 were far from heavily armed nor organized………But if you prefer to discuss “fantasy” associated with regular joe’s taking on a military superpower with deer rifles and scatter guns I will gladly oblige.

[Guest Derek L]

Yes, it often entails a heady mix of left and right, as in anarcho-capitalism and anarchy generally.

(This is not at all to discredit the more sober and thoughtful intellectual advocates of libertarianism and anarchism, who have serious things to say, whether we agree with them or not.)

Just as a side note, it's often stated (by self-styled "centrists," often Establishment liberals) that mixing left and right produces a rational centre. I say not necessarily: it also produces caricatures like Alex Jones.

Even if he hadn't done so, he isn't a fascist. Fascist has an actual meaning to it; yes, it's a little more complex than some poeple might think, and takes on varying attributes and degrees of horror...but it's not helpful as a simple pejorative for leaders we don't like.

To add to our earlier discussion, I’ll add this tidbit I just found:

NDP would bring back long-gun registry, Liberals wouldn’t

The long-gun registry issue has sparked divisions within the NDP caucus in the past with some MPs from rural ridings breaking ranks and siding with the Conservatives.

But Mulcair says in the future, all MPs will be expected to toe the party line.

"It is certain that if we run in an election with that as a platform, everyone will follow," he said.

Meanwhile in the LPC camp:

Meanwhile, the Liberals, who introduced the controversial registry in 2001, say they would not re-introduce it if they were to form government after the 2015 election.

"Liberals would not bring back the registry," Liberal spokesperson Daniel Lauzon told Yahoo! Canada News in an email exchange, Monday.

"But we strongly support maintaining the data so Provinces can maintain their own if they wish to do so."

So we have the CPC in favour of liberal firearms laws, the NDP in favour of tighter controls, and the LPC somewhere in the middle, morally siding with the NDP, but in practice, following the CPC lead…….

Are the NDP going to forfeit their rural ridings opposed to the registry with this stance to the Liberals and/or Conservatives?

[Guest Manny]

Quite simply, the Germans loved their Hitler. He saved them.

[cybercoma]

Mackenzie King loved Hitler too.

King was impressed by Hitler. He wrote, "My sizing up of the man as I sat and talked with him was that he is really one who truly loves his fellow-men, and his country, and would make any sacrifice for their good." (Diary, June 29, 1937) Hitler appeared to be "a man of deep sincerity and a genuine patriot." (Diary, June 29, 1937) King saw similarities between himself and Hitler, writing, "As I talked with him, I could not but think of Joan of Arc. He is distinctly a mystic .... He is a teetotaller and also a vegetarian; is unmarried, abstemist in all his habits and ways." (Diary, June 29, 1937)

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/king/023011-1070.05-e.html

[Guest Derek L]

Mackenzie King loved Hitler too.

And what were ole Tommy Douglas’s views on Hitler’s Nazi Germany, after his visit in ‘36?

Or Winston Churchill’s views?

I fail to see your point.

[huh]

Im sure the 20 percent of Canadian homicide victims who are stabbed to death each year will be pleased that they weren't amongst the 2 percent of victims that were shot to death with a registered long gun. People for the registry are either liars or ignorant, either way their opinions should be ignored, and they have been, one of the few things this government has done right so far.

Btw, there already are rules concerning the storage of amunition, but the liars already knew that, they just don't have the scruples to be honest about it.

Sorry, i forgot one other possibility, some registry supporters are just idiots.

[Jack Weber]

Mackenzie King loved Hitler too.

Mackenzie King also talked with his dead mother...Or so he thought....

[bleeding heart]

Im sure the 20 percent of Canadian homicide victims who are stabbed to death each year will be pleased that they weren't amongst the 2 percent of victims that were shot to death with a registered long gun. People for the registry are either liars or ignorant, either way their opinions should be ignored, and they have been, one of the few things this government has done right so far.

Btw, there already are rules concerning the storage of amunition, but the liars already knew that, they just don't have the scruples to be honest about it.

Sorry, i forgot one other possibility, some registry supporters are just idiots.

"Liars," "idiots," or "ignorant"?

Choices are awesome!

[MACKER]

Well, its seems the lobbyist for the gun owners in Canada got to Vic again. Apparently, a rules for storing ammo isn't going to happen but I don't understand the problem on this, if they still have to have the guns under lock and key, then can't the ammo be stored their too? http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Proposed+ammo+storage+rules+will+proceed+Toews+says/6418140/story.html

The thing I find funny in this is that it is the bullets that kill not the guns. All someone needs to do is rig up a pea shooter or pen gun and the bullets can be used to kill just the same as a pistol. A simple websearch can show people how to do it.

For example:

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/427088/homemade_22_pen_gun/

Bullets are more dangerous than guns. All you can do with a gun is club someone.

Of course you can rig up these same tools for other types of ammo not just .22

Or what about ammo for frag devices

http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/fileadmin/docs/D-Book-series/book-05-Conventional-Ammo/SAS-Conventional-Ammunition-in-Surplus-Book-16-Chapter-14.pdf

Take for instance the danger of bullets here

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/52796-firefighter-friendly-ammo-storage

someone rigs up some gasoline napalm and suddently you have a nasty antipersonnel bomb to deal with.

they have videos like this out there too

from just some gooey fire then you have a pretty nasty IED on your hands as soon as you get something to breach temperature.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P76I4oSGbH0&feature=related

they even have instructions for making thermite to give the extra heat

all you need is some aluminum cans and sand.

magnesium is a common camping supply for firestarting.

Edited April 12, 2012 by MACKER

[cybercoma]

"Guns don't kill people. People kill people. But the gun sure does help." -George Carlin

[Tilter]

That is not what happened. The Nazis did not come to power through intimidation but through a bad economy.

Yeah--- right.

[Tilter]

"Guns don't kill people. People kill people. But the gun sure does help." -George Carlin

Actually, very few guns have killed anyone---- Bullets however have a heavy impact on the victim

[Tilter]

"Liars," "idiots," or "ignorant"?

Choices are awesome!

Well, them are the choices &we gotta live with them.

[Tilter]

Quote

The long-gun registry issue has sparked divisions within the NDP caucus in the past with some MPs from rural ridings breaking ranks and siding with the Conservatives.

But Mulcair says in the future, all MPs will be expected to toe the party line.

"It is certain that if we run in an election with that as a platform, everyone will follow," he said.

I thot that the NDP were really heavy on "FREE" votes-- These people have been bitching at how "heavyhanded" Prime Minister (and we should all remember that he is "Prime Minister" Harper) has been in controlling the votes in his caucus and these same people have campaigned for "Free" votes---- Now Mulcair will now insist on controlling the votes in his caucus. Bit of a turnaround there--- a turnaround that will cost him the rural prairie votes, the Northern Canada votes & all but Toronto & Montreal votes in those heavily populated areas if voting is on any issue re gun control.

[Tilter]

I could live with this.

The laws in place for armed robbery are about that now. Unfortunately, the judges don't seem to know about the difference and seem to ignore any thought of sentencing armed robbers to any serious time--- hence the MINIMUM term laws which will make them notice.

[Tilter]

Essentially,the period of 1918 to 1925-26 was a form of Civil War in Germany...

It was out of that economic and social chaos that allowed the NAZI party to bring their brand of "clarity" to the situation...

.

Which is the largest reason the Allies had such a large hand in both the legal & financial reformation of the Country of Germany

[Jack Weber]

Which is the largest reason the Allies had such a large hand in both the legal & financial reformation of the Country of Germany

They should have...

It's the Treaty of Versailles that set in motion thr events that led to the rise of NAZIsm and the 2nd World War...Actually,thank France because they were the architects of the Treaty...

[cybercoma]

I thot that the NDP were really heavy on "FREE" votes

It doesn't make sense for the NDP to have "free" votes. Their policy is created by their membership at convention. If the MPs refuse to follow the policy as determined by the membership, then they're basically giving the membership the finger. The MPs ought to be following the policy as determined by the entire party, not just their own personal opinions. In the case of those MPs who claim their constituents wanted them to vote that way, those constituents elected an MP from a party that has been very clear about its stance on the gun registry. If they elect the NDP then get mad at the NDP for doing what it has said it would do, then those constituents aren't very bright.

As for the Conservatives, they don't have to rely on "free" votes, since they're not the Reform Party. I think people that criticize Harper for not allowing "free" votes are those that mistakenly think the party's Reform roots dictate its current direction. That's not at all the case, obviously. What I think Harper is criticized for more is gagging his MPs when it comes to speaking to the media and shutting MPs out of the decision-making process in caucus meetings. The brass dictates to the rest of the party how they should answer and what it will do. The MPs are given their scripts to read in the House and they're not to deviate from that. Vic Toews even proved that MPs, cabinet ministers even in his case, don't even know what's in the bills they're presenting. That should worry anyone that cares about democracy. If the democratically elected are not the ones making the decisions, if they're just puppets for some unseen groups or decision-makers, that's a serious problem.

[Guest Peeves]

They should have...

It's the Treaty of Versailles that set in motion thr events that led to the rise of NAZIsm and the 2nd World War...Actually,thank France because they were the architects of the Treaty...

http://www.firstworldwar.com/bio/hitler.htm

Gee, I thunk it were them German guys what started the war afore thet thar next second one. Weren't thet thar Hitler feller in thet one too? I'm a thinkin the Nazism started with his hatred of Jews and that the second WW started from the first German war. Everything else is rhetoric, which of course is simply more 'accessory." Nazis are German, were then are now, but blaming France is as a worm to an apple, a plow to a worm. It is opinion...about ..enthymemes, which are the substance of rhetorical persuasion, but deal mainly with non-essentials. The arousing of prejudice, pity, anger, and similar emotions has nothing to do with the essential facts, but is merely a personal appeal to the man who is judging the case."

I say Germany was to blame in WW1 and WW2.

Rhetoric, by Aristotle

Book I

1

RHETORIC the counterpart of Dialectic. Both alike are concerned with such things as come, more or less, within the general ken of all men and belong to no definite science. Accordingly all men make use, more or less, of both; for to a certain extent all men attempt to discuss statements and to maintain them, to defend themselves and to attack others. Ordinary people do this either at random or through practice and from acquired habit. Both ways being possible, the subject can plainly be handled systematically, for it is possible to inquire the reason why some speakers succeed through practice and others spontaneously; and every one will at once agree that such an inquiry is the function of an art.

Now, the framers of the current treatises on rhetoric have constructed but a small portion of that art. The modes of persuasion are the only true constituents of the art: everything else is merely accessory. These writers, however, say nothing about enthymemes, which are the substance of rhetorical persuasion, but deal mainly with non-essentials. The arousing of prejudice, pity, anger, and similar emotions has nothing to do with the essential facts, but is merely a personal appeal to the man who is judging the case.

http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/a/aristotle/a8rh/book1.html

[Jack Weber]

http://www.firstworldwar.com/bio/hitler.htm

Gee, I thunk it were them German guys what started the war afore thet thar next second one. Weren't thet thar Hitler feller in thet one too? I'm a thinkin the Nazism started with his hatred of Jews and that the second WW started from the first German war. Everything else is rhetoric, which of course is simply more 'accessory." Nazis are German, were then are now, but blaming France is as a worm to an apple, a plow to a worm. It is opinion...about ..enthymemes, which are the substance of rhetorical persuasion, but deal mainly with non-essentials. The arousing of prejudice, pity, anger, and similar emotions has nothing to do with the essential facts, but is merely a personal appeal to the man who is judging the case."

I say Germany was to blame in WW1 and WW2.

http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/a/aristotle/a8rh/book1.html

Of course,all your self absorbed wordsmithing aside,you know all about the links between the First World War and the Franco-Prussian War of 1870-71?

Of course you know the French feelings of national humiliation because of that little military miscue?

Of course you do know that the First World War was started by an act of war by a Serbian assassinating the Archduke Franz Ferdinand of the Austro-Hungarian empire?

Of course you do know that it was through a series of cascading treaty's that brought the Triple Allianc and the Triple Entente to war over that single event?

Of course you do know about the British misgivings about the French zeal,mainly at the hands of George Clemenceau and Ferdinand Foche,to get back at Germany for it's audacity to challenge France as the main power on the European continent and for humilating France 50 years earlier AND to make sure it never rose again?

Of course you know about the British quote that the Treaty Of Versailles was a peace treaty..It was an armistice for 20 years...(they missed it by 1 year...Ooops!)

Of course you know that the crippling nature of the treaty created the chaotic economic conditions in Germany (see The Weimar Republic) that allowed someone the likes of Adolph Hitler to rise in popularity and power?

Of course you know that by shutting out President Orlando of Italy and giving Italy nothing( French decisions...again)gave rise to one,Benito Mussolini?

Sure Germany and Germans are ultimately to blame for the NAZI atrocities.It's to the eternal shame of all Germans that this was allowed to happen.But that simply doesn't change the facts of history that I'm quite certain you are entirely knowledgable of.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Jack Weber

[Guest Derek L]

Well hardly concealed carry, arming children, self defence etc, these seem like the next reasonable target(s):

Tories to push further easing of gun restrictions at little-known committee

The duration of licences should be extended from the five years, as it is now, to 10-year or lifetime validity. These renewals has become redundant, Breitkreuz said, because police now verify the validity of each licence every day, and immediately revoke them in the case of criminal charges.

And since authorization-to-transport papers must be provided by the RCMP to gun owners upon request, Breitkreuz said this antiquated system should simply be collapsed into the licence card.

Breitkreuz said he would like to see firearms laws moved from the criminal code — where they are now — into the civil code. This would help protect firearms owners from being criminalized for mere paperwork errors, he said, such as expired licences or authorizations to transport.

All minor changes that won’t effect law enforcement or the general public, but will defiantly benefit gun owners………If I forget to renew my drivers licence prior to it expiring, the local RCMP won’t bust down my (Garage) door to seize my personal vehicles, nor would I be charged with possessing a vehicle without a drivers licence if it were parked in my driveway……….As for the ATT, this has always been a redundant law, since if I’ve been granted my RPAL, why should I require a second permit to transport my restricted to the range……role the ATT into the RPAL…..duh.

Anders and Breitkreuz also take issue with the sweeping powers the Canadian Firearms Program has to classify and reclassify guns, crucial determinations that affect who can own a particular gun, where it can be fired, and how it must be stored and transported.

For example, a .22-calibre rifle called the AP80 recently was moved from the non-restricted into the prohibited category because its threatening looks are similar to Russia's infamous AK-47 assault rifle. As a result, they can no longer be used for hunting, and can only be owned by the relatively few holders of prohibited firearms licences. All other owners had their AP80s seized by police.

This, Anders said, is like banning Humvees and other SUVs because they "look too military."

Again, pure common sense, this ability should be taken away from them and has allowed the CFP to deem this .22lr rifle prohibited:

AP80

But this 7.62x39 rifle* to be unrestricted due to a dissimilar firing mechanism than the infamous AK-47:

CZ 858

*They're great plinkers for out at the gravel pit and with surplus Commie Bloc ammo, cheap to shoot like an SKS.

[Shakeyhands]

*They're great plinkers for out at the gravel pit and with surplus Commie Bloc ammo, cheap to shoot like an SKS.

Speaking of plinkers, i went out and bought my boy an SR-22 with a really cool red dot sight. That thing is so fun and cheap to shoot I can hardly contain myself!

[Guest Derek L]

Speaking of plinkers, i went out and bought my boy an SR-22 with a really cool red dot sight. That thing is so fun and cheap to shoot I can hardly contain myself!

Good to hear!!! They’re great little guns and are really only 10/22s with the tacticool factor increased……..Depending on your kids size/age, I’d suggested getting a Russian made SKS……They’re cheap, the ammo ‘s cheap, simple to maintain, durable and much to my surprise, compared to my Mini 14/30s, very accurate with just iron sights out to ~100 yards………I just bought ten, and have had my son, nephew and their friend cleaning all the Cosmoline off them.

As for the CZ 858, I just picked one up last weekend, and though only putting less than 100 rounds through it, have no real complaints so far for a 700 hundred dollar semi-auto……..I’ve been kinda shopping for a specific AR variant for myself (Colt, Armalite, Bushmaster Hbar), and aside from having to find a used one (due to US arms export restrictions), I’m not too keen on having a restricted rifle that would likely become a safe queen……..This lead me to the Robson Arms XCR, but for over two grand, I heard of a lot of problems with them…….I’d really like a Swiss Arms rifle, but when the optics are factored in, it’s pushing close to five grand…….Though this wouldn’t lead to a divorce, I’d be likely sleeping in the basement with my son for a couple of months

[Shakeyhands]

Good to hear!!! They’re great little guns and are really only 10/22s with the tacticool factor increased……..

That Robson Arms XCR is cool looking for sure, and the Swiss Arms rifle looks like a bastardized cross between the AR and AK platforms and an FN FAL. Both very cool!

Love the picatinny rails on both, especially on the XCR...the cool factor to add optics, lights etc is a winner with the kids... shades of COD.