F-35 Purchase

[waldo]

like I said, you're entrenched in a WWII mindset! You clearly haven't a clue about A2/AD... that really shines through when you speak of 'domestic' in an AD context. Man, you are a lightweight!

Since I haven’t a clue as stated by yourself, perhaps you’d care to enlighten me/us……….Clearly the Japanese strategy of taking over the various atolls in the Pacific then erecting extensive fortifications, mining the sea approaches and stockpiling (barely) enough food, water and ammunition on said islands was the very essence of a “A2/AD” strategy…….

get yourself out of your WWII mindset... you're embarrassing yourself. You know, pull your head out of the sand and think of modern times... good times, hey!

[bush_cheney2004]

[bush_cheney2004]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRtUGnw-GJY&feature=endscreen&NR=1

[Guest Derek L]

have you no shame... no self-respect... no intellectual honesty? None? None at all? It's an easy cut&paste - I have it on speed dial... here, have another, hey?

So you’ve no withdrawn your assertion on weapons testing? Just to clarify, so as to “move on” and “focus”……

[waldo]

So you’ve no withdrawn your assertion on weapons testing? Just to clarify, so as to “move on” and “focus”……

I've repeatedly advised how the "move on" can/will occur - have another:

As before, as always, you could end this with a simple straight-forward explanation of what you interpret the offered U.S. GAO quote extract to mean, particularly in the context of your testing puffery

... you know, that quote extract repeatedly presented to you... the one you've been repeatedly challenged to comment on... the one you won't touch with the proverbial '10 foot pole'.

[Guest Derek L]

what? You mean have me speak for Lockheed Martin's posturing? I thought that was your job! But, c'mon... even for you, even for your lowly standards, is that the best you've got? Here we have Lockheed Martin whining about pending U.S. defense cuts, while threatening massive layoffs... to it's entire workforce. In all that posturing, speculation and what-if, you can't even entertain the possibility, the strong likelihood, of impacts to your most revered JSFail F-35 program. Of course, as I stated, the practical extension of the U.S. defense cuts would be the respective military branches downsizing/delaying their F-35 procurement numbers... over and above all the downsizing/delaying that's occurred to-date - hence, the LockMart layoffs! And of course, you know exactly what that means to the JSFail program. I guess that's why you're comfortable in your denial, hey?

So that’s another no for clarification? I’ve read the Army will lose several (plus) entire medium brigade groups (So long Lockheed JLTV), the Air Force and Air National Guard will lose a handful of tactical lift squadrons ( bye-bye Lockmart J-Herc) and several ANG units will replace their A-10’s (No more Lockmart Warthog SLEP) with Predators and the navy, most if not all of their Oliver Hazard figs without like numbers for replacement (It’s been swell Lockheed Freedom class Little Crappy Ship)………..Let’s see yours?

Edited June 30, 2012 by Derek L

[Guest Derek L]

get yourself out of your WWII mindset... you're embarrassing yourself. You know, pull your head out of the sand and think of modern times... good times, hey!

Another deflection? Please Waldo, educate me on said A2/AD strategy……..

[Guest Derek L]

I've repeatedly advised how the "move on" can/will occur - have another:

Care to show the part of the GAO referenced by you that cast this summer’s weapons testing in doubt?

[waldo]

what? You mean have me speak for Lockheed Martin's posturing? I thought that was your job! But, c'mon... even for you, even for your lowly standards, is that the best you've got? Here we have Lockheed Martin whining about pending U.S. defense cuts, while threatening massive layoffs... to it's entire workforce. In all that posturing, speculation and what-if, you can't even entertain the possibility, the strong likelihood, of impacts to your most revered JSFail F-35 program. Of course, as I stated, the practical extension of the U.S. defense cuts would be the respective military branches downsizing/delaying their F-35 procurement numbers... over and above all the downsizing/delaying that's occurred to-date - hence, the LockMart layoffs! And of course, you know exactly what that means to the JSFail program. I guess that's why you're comfortable in your denial, hey?

So that’s another no for clarification? I’ve read the Army will lose several (plus) entire medium brigade groups (So long Lockheed JLTV), the Air Force and Air National Guard will lose a handful of tactical lift squadrons ( bye-bye Lockmart J-Herc) and several ANG units will replace their A-10’s (Now more Lockmart Warthog SLEP) with Predators and the navy, most if not all of their Oliver Hazard figs without like numbers for replacement (It’s been swell Lockheed Freedom class Little Crappy Ship)………..Let’s see yours?

hey buddy, it's called a preview button - try it... you'll like it!

damn, did not realize you were so tapped in... which blogs are you reading? Oh wait, sorry - you abhor blogs (the ones with a JSFail critical eye) and chastise anyone for referencing blogs... "you were against blogs, before you were for them"!!! By the by, that's freaking amazing... all those LockMart cuts and nothing... nothing... targeted at the F-35, hey?

[waldo]

Care to show the part of the GAO referenced by you that cast this summer’s weapons testing in doubt?

the only assertion I've made is that you improperly correlated two events, one presuming on the other... that you falsely linked presumed full system integration as a facet of your improper correlation. All the rest is just

'Derek L fluff & stuff™'

.

hey now! We are making progress... finally, ... you have come around to, at least, acknowledging the U.S. GAO quote. So, we're on our way - just take the next step. Just address the actual quote, particularly in the context of your testing puffery! Let me help ya out by replaying the quote again, hey?

from the most recent, just weeks old, U.S. Government Accountability Office report:

JSF’s mission systems

: provide combat effectiveness through next generation sensors with fused information from on-board and off-board systems (i.e. Electronic Warfare, Communication Navigation Identification, Electro-Optical Target System, Electro-Optical Distributed Aperture System, Radar, and Data Links).

JSF’s mission systems and logistics systems are critical to realizing the operational and support capabilities expected by the warfighter, but

the hardware and software for these systems are immature and unproven at this time. For example, only 4 percent of mission systems requirements planned in system development and demonstration have been verified.

Significant learning and development remains before the program can demonstrate mature mission systems software and hardware, not expected until block 3.0 is delivered in 2015. The program has experienced significant challenges developing and integrating mission systems software. Mission systems hardware has also experienced several technical challenges, including problems with the radar, integrated processor, communication and navigation equipment, and electronic warfare capabilities

.

[Guest Derek L]

hey buddy, it's called a preview button - try it... you'll like it!

damn, did not realize you were so tapped in... which blogs are you reading? Oh wait, sorry - you abhor blogs (the ones with a JSFail critical eye) and chastise anyone for referencing blogs... "you were against blogs, before you were for them"!!! By the by, that's freaking amazing... all those LockMart cuts and nothing... nothing... targeted at the F-35, hey?

Your assertion shows your level ass-backwards thinking………If LockMart were to engage in the coming Presidential race with such a dubious strategy, they would quite obviously target (with said threatened job losses) those programs that are produced in blue (JLTV/Pennsylvania) or purple (LCS/Wisconsin) states, not red states (F-35/Texas)………Give your tin-foil covered head a shake.

[Guest Derek L]

hey now! We are making progress... finally, ... you have come around to, at least, acknowledging the U.S. GAO quote. So, we're on our way - just take the next step. Just address the actual quote, particularly in the context of your testing puffery! Let me help ya out by replaying the quote again, hey?

That's a no to the weapons testing denial? Still?

[waldo]

That's a no to the weapons testing denial? Still?

like I said earlier, you really should take the astute and helpful insight offered by MLW member, 'Moonbox'... you're just continuing to embarrass yourself.

Not really. You're not taking him seriously because you're trolling him.

I'm commenting on your trolling. Waldo hasn't been trolling you. He's been trying to have a conversation and you guys have really just been baiting and mocking him when he's brought up valid points.

[Guest Derek L]

like I said earlier, you really should take the astute and helpful insight offered by MLW member, 'Moonbox'... you're just continuing to embarrass yourself.

Now a distraction? You need to hide behind esteemed member Moonbox’s postings……Come on Waldo, you touted a GAO report to “refute” my posting of the F-35’s summer weapons testing………Then implied via said GAO report, that I’ve stated full systems integration to be complete when I clearly provided an update on Northrop Grumman’s progress/release of footage of achievement of to date testing………It’s rather sad really.

[Guest Derek L]

And in other F-35 news:

US, Japan sign deal on first four F-35 fighters

The letter of offer and acceptance, which was signed in Japan, includes four conventional takeoff variants of the F-35 fighter at a cost of 10.2 billion yen ($128.61 million) each, a slightly higher price than the 9.9 billion yen ($124.83 million) than Japan initially budgeted to spend.

But the cost of the two simulators and other equipment dropped to 19.1 billion yen ($240.83 million) from the anticipated level of 20.5 billion yen ($258.48 million) so the overall price remained at 60 billion yen.

They’re paying near 130 million, per plane, for pre production aircraft? What of the 150-200 million per plane figure touted around hear recently? Don’t the Japanese know about the GAO report??????

[waldo]

Your assertion shows your level ass-backwards thinking………If LockMart were to engage in the coming Presidential race with such a dubious strategy, they would quite obviously target (with said threatened job losses) those programs that are produced in blue (JLTV/Pennsylvania) or purple (LCS/Wisconsin) states, not red states (F-35/Texas)………Give your tin-foil covered head a shake.

my assertion? Buddy, I simply relayed political analysis that's playing out through many U.S. media channels... analysis that's pretty easy given LockMart's posturing and the practical extension of that posturing butted up against the start of sequestration (Jan 1, 2013) and the lead time for layoff notices to go out (3 months prior)... well hey, lookee there! That's right before the U.S. election. Wow, that's a heavy-hand being played out by LockMart... don't you think?

as for your expected simplistic red-blue state drivel, do you know if there are any madHatter T-Party types in Texas? You know... the ones driving the GOP bus over the cliff? But, hey now... let's stick with your simplistic take: just where are the many LockMart subcontractors located - I understand Northrup Grumman is big in such places as California and Maryland... I think those are blue, right? Would you like more?

[waldo]

Now a distraction? You need to hide behind esteemed member Moonbox’s postings……Come on Waldo, you touted a GAO report to “refute” my posting of the F-35’s summer weapons testing………Then implied via said GAO report, that I’ve stated full systems integration to be complete when I clearly provided an update on Northrop Grumman’s progress/release of footage of achievement of to date testing………It’s rather sad really.

backpedal away, hey? You were caught with your pants down - big time! To your testing puffery, you correlated non-existent functionality that won't even be available (optimistically) until 2015. I called you on it - plain and simple. So simple it stares you in the face every time I play back that U.S. GAO quote extract - you know, the quote extract you keep running/hiding from. Ya, that one!

[bush_cheney2004]

Japan says...F-35 Lightning talks...bullshit walks:

[Guest Derek L]

my assertion? Buddy, I simply relayed political analysis that's playing out through many U.S. media channels... analysis that's pretty easy given LockMart's posturing and the practical extension of that posturing butted up against the start of sequestration (Jan 1, 2013) and the lead time for layoff notices to go out (3 months prior)... well hey, lookee there! That's right before the U.S. election. Wow, that's a heavy-hand being played out by LockMart... don't you think?

as for your expected simplistic red-blue state drivel, do you know if there are any madHatter T-Party types in Texas? You know... the ones driving the GOP bus over the cliff? But, hey now... let's stick with your simplistic take: just where are the many LockMart subcontractors located - I understand Northrup Grumman is big in such places as California and Maryland... I think those are blue, right? Would you like more?

Northrup Grumman has also promised lay-offs?

Remember, it’s not my assertion, simply me playing out the theme at your request……….Both Romney and Obama are in step with Lockheed’s current Bread and Butter……..The F-35, Flight III Aegis Burkes and BMD.

[Guest Derek L]

backpedal away, hey? You were caught with your pants down - big time! To your testing puffery, you correlated non-existent functionality that won't even be available (optimistically) until 2015. I called you on it - plain and simple. So simple it stares you in the face every time I play back that U.S. GAO quote extract - you know, the quote extract you keep running/hiding from. Ya, that one!

Let's see those quotes again

[Guest Derek L]

Japan says...F-35 Lightning talks...bullshit walks:

Somebody stop them!!!!

[bush_cheney2004]

Norway - Hvorfor F-35? (Why the F-35?)

[waldo]

They’re paying near 130 million, per plane, for pre production aircraft? What of the 150-200 million per plane figure touted around hear recently? Don’t the Japanese know about the GAO report??????

yawn! We've addressed Japan several times now. I've highlighted the $137 million per figure from the U.S. GAO report... the sperts expect that to go considerably higher. I'm quite sure I've never qualified that 'expected higher' to a figure (I stand to be corrected)... perhaps you're thinking of another MLW poster's comments. In any case, does this mean we'll finally... finally... have you pulling back from the constant nattering replay of the Harper Conservative "75 million per figure". Are we there yet?

speaking of Japan, didn't I highlight the desperation by LockMart in agreeing to set-up full scale production and long-term support directly in Japan. That's quite the incentive hey? Speaking of incentive and not the actual F-35 vapourware, how about that recent weeks old U.S. Government pressure, with U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta doing some fine Japanese 'arm-twisting' around the U.S.-Japan Alliance and the agreement to realign U.S. forces in Japan. Something about the Chinese and the "Pacific pivot"! Things that make you go hmmmmmmm!

[Guest Derek L]

Norway - Hvorfor F-35? (Why the F-35?)

Now that Norway and Japan have committed to the F-35:

I'll put my money on the Italians, Israelis, and Dutch to purchase their's in the coming months, followed by the South Korean's selection........I’m still predicting Taiwan, Belgium and Finland for my wildcard selections mind you

[Guest Derek L]

yawn! We've addressed Japan several times now. I've highlighted the $137 million per figure from the U.S. GAO report... the sperts expect that to go considerably higher. I'm quite sure I've never qualified that 'expected higher' to a figure (I stand to be corrected)... perhaps you're thinking of another MLW poster's comments. In any case, does this mean we'll finally... finally... have you pulling back from the constant nattering replay of the Harper Conservative "75 million per figure". Are we there yet?

speaking of Japan, didn't I highlight the desperation by LockMart in agreeing to set-up full scale production and long-term support directly in Japan. That's quite the incentive hey? Speaking of incentive and not the actual F-35 vapourware, how about that recent weeks old U.S. Government pressure, with U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta doing some fine Japanese 'arm-twisting' around the U.S.-Japan Alliance and the agreement to realign U.S. forces in Japan. Something about the Chinese and the "Pacific pivot"! Things that make you go hmmmmmmm!

Yet Japan just paid 128 million for four LRIP aircraft .......Poor Waldo