we should call all provinces "distinct" societies.

[Big Blue Machine]

What do you think of that idea?

[August1991]

I think Vander Zalm suggested something like this at one point. This "solution" reminds me of the US in Vietnam: "Let's say we won and go home." IOW, simply saying something repeatedly doesn't make it true.

There will always be a group of Quebecers who want independence. English Canada (ROC if you prefer) must appeal to Quebecers who are prepared to share the same country. Making all provinces "distinct" will have no effect on this appeal.

[takeanumber]

Every single province is distinct.

The culture of New Brunswick is totally different from Alberta.

Alberta and Saskatchewan have totally opposite social and political histories, not to mention the differences between Ontario and Alberta, Manitoba and PEI, Newfoundland and the any other atlantic province, and hell, even Nova Scotia and New Brunswick.

It's true. Every province is distinct from each other.

Many Quebeckers seem to think that they're more different than everybody else, they should be treated as the superiors that they think they are. (Hence the demands for more EI money and more money for cultural events -- the source of the sponsorship scandal from 1995-2003, only ceasing their demands when the ROC caught them.) I think it's funny that they're always portraying themselves as 'victims'. lol.

[Big Blue Machine]

Qubecers think that just because they have people that mostly speak different language, they should be different. They are wrong.

[August1991]

Every single province is distinct.

For anyone who has travelled, every region of the US is distinct. Every region of Europe is distinct. Every region of Asia and Africa is distinct. IOW, continents are big places and when transportation and communication are difficult, it is not surprising that people create their own local world of gossip.

Borders in the future may well be different when the cost of travel and communication falls to nothing. (On the other hand, geography seems to make island people different from prairie people. Let's meet in 2304 and compare notes.)

Many Quebeckers seem to think that they're more different than everybody else

The Quebec National Assembly was the only provincial legislature to reject (unanimously - all Claude Ryan's Liberals voted against) the 1982 Constitution. Quebec is the only province where French is used commonly by most people in the street. Quebec is the only province where a majority of the population claim Roman Catholic affiliation or education. Quebec is the only province that bases its legal system on a civil code (as does most of the world).

Quebec is not a province like the others.

Macdonald and Diefenbaker, for example, knew this practically. Even Pearson went along with the idea, but like Stanfield, he wondered how to "understand" Quebec's "special" nature.

Trudeau, the post WW II anti-nationalist idealist, wanted to put Quebec in its place - Canada - a province as any other in a mythical federation on a mythical continent.

Special status? Gimme a break. It ain't the problem at all. Gawd, did the 60s, Bi-Bi, CBC types mess this up.

The simple fact of the matter is that some 7 million francophones share a continent with some 300 million anglophones. (Quebecers are the Vietnamese/Siamese of continental Chinese Asia. I'll ignore hispanophones.) Quebecers care nothing about Canada unless "Canada" means a way to help them to be distinct in their own way on this continent.

This is English Canada's problem. If it wants a country called "Canada", large solid pink area on the map, it must make peace with Quebec (French Canada). In practical terms, in a 21st century world, this means English Canadians must pay taxes so that people write dictionaries to invent such terms as "logiciel" or "courriel".

[Big Blue Machine]

I think we should call all the provinces distinct socities so everyone is happy.

[takeanumber]

@August

Wheeaaaaa Wheeeaaaaaa. Cry me a river about the Constitution. Poor Quebec. Always the victims, never the perpe-traitors.

It's a province just like the others.

The difference between New Brunswick and Alberta is sure as hell a lot greater than the difference from Normandy and Marseille.

The difference between Saskatchewan and Quebec is sure as hell a lot greater than the difference between Mass. and Mississippi.

Every province is a distinct society from another. It's the North-South nature of the country.

[caesar]

yes, We are all different in some ways; so are cities; so what. That is why we are called provinces. Lately, I think Albertans are doing more sulking than Quebeckers.

[playfullfellow]

yes, We are all different in some ways; so are cities; so what. That is why we are called provinces. Lately, I think Albertans are doing more sulking than Quebeckers.

Nah, I think most Albertans have gotten over the election and are getting on with their lives. Why bitch, no one listens anyways.

[Slavik44]

Sure were all distinct great, what does that proove. A part of being recognized as being distinct, is having that distinction is preserved, and I would rather Quebec preserve their own distinction, and Alberta it's own distinction and Ontario it's distinction. Because having equalization distinction payments would just cause more fighting not less.

[idealisttotheend]

August

English Canada (ROC if you prefer) must appeal to Quebecers who are prepared to share the same country.

Must? Why must not Quebecs give some ground on a stronger federal state in some respects.

TN:

Alberta and Saskatchewan have totally opposite social and political histories,

Untrue. Alberta and Saskatchewan's history's are more alike than most people realize. They only began to diverge significantly when Klien came along and they're still not that far apart. But I don't think that would hold true of Alberta and BC or Alberta and Ontario. It's really the five regions (six including the North) that could be considered distinct from each other. Of course as casear points out they can be further subdivided from there. Rural Ontario versus southern Ontario, Edmonton versus Calgary. Westmount from Outermount.

August:

Trudeau, the post WW II anti-nationalist idealist, wanted to put Quebec in its place - Canada - a province as any other in a mythical federation on a mythical continent.

Trudeau wanted nothing of the sort. He didn't spend all that time fighting Dupuise (excuse the spelling) to put Quebec "n it's place". His ideal that French and English could come together and concentrate on the individual differences of each person instead of the ethnic differences that he saw as tired and passe. He travelled the world enough to know that fewer people kill each other when they strive for such "ideals" and are stronger sticking together than tearing themselves apart.

His ideal is the very idea of Canada and it's greatest strength.

This is English Canada's problem. If it wants a country called "Canada", large solid pink area on the map, it must make peace with Quebec (French Canada).

As we can see from this board, "English Canada" is far less homogenous than your 7 million francophones. In fact there's a challenge, find a bloc of 7 million "English" Canadians who feel they are an ethnic group like Quebecers are. Alberta doesn't like Ontario all that much these days and would be Quebec's greatest ally in getting whatever the power du jour is wanted from Ottawa. The East is seen as dependant by Ontario, Saskatchewan is trying to keep it's economic policies viable whilst living next door to oil rich Alberta, northern Ontario resents southern Ontario and BC just does it's own thing. Everybody hates Toronto.

Furthermore all the problems these days seem to be economic, no cares about the cultural element any more (to the detrement of Canada).

And August, welcome back to Canada.

[Big Blue Machine]

But who would agree to this idea of distinct socities?

[Guest eureka]

One of the problems with "distinct society" status that is not generally known is that it requires a Constitutional Amendment.

Where it is placed in the Constitution is all important. If, as some suggest, it is placed in the preamble, then it would be a fairly innocuous symbol though it might achieve powerful significance in expectations.

Francophone Quebec. generally, wants the distinction placed in sec. 25 as with the aboriginals. There, it attains great legal power. It would enable Quebec to, for example, confirm its draconian language laws. It would, as a Professor David Kwavnick once put it; "reinforce and enshrine all the barbarism of Bill 101."

We should think very carefully about what is, on the face of it, a harmless recognition of diversity.

[Big Blue Machine]

It should be put into a new constuitional deal. Maybe we will be third time lucky you know.

[JWayne625]

caeser; The big difference is that Alberta can afford to go it on their own, Quebec on the other hand is so used to putting out their hands to Ottawa and getting what they ask for that if they ever separated they would be bankrupt overnight. If it wasn't for Alberta, Ottawa would have no money to give to Quebecor any of the other have-not Provinces.

If I were living in Alberta as both of my son's are, I too would be talking about separation from Canada. Alberta is the only government in Canada that is not in hawk up to their ears, so they can afford to tell Ottawa and the rest of the Provinces for that matter where to get off. The fact is that Ottawa itself would be broke if it wasn't for Alberta.

[maplesyrup]

Let's see - distinct provinces:

BC for its rain!

Saskatchewan for its dust clouds!

Ontario - Canada's Head Office or so they like to think!

Quebec for its poutine!

Nouveau Brunswick for its bilingualism, officially, that is!

Alberta, for Mapleleafweb, and Calgary for its schnooks. Nice, especially in February!

[Big Blue Machine]

I like the idea.

[Boydfish]

I suppose there might be some merit to the idea, but from a strictly British Columbian perspective, who cares if the Canadians do or don't realize that BC is pretty damn different from the other provinces? We're barely aware that there is anything on the other side of the Rockies.

[Guest eureka]

That, I found, when I lived in B.C. was the chief drawback to the province. The denizens did not seem to be aware of much outside themselves. Distinct in that! Hardly! There is a whole world that does not know its connection to its fellows.

[Big Blue Machine]

Every province is distinct.