punked Posted March 14, 2012 Report Posted March 14, 2012 Oh agreed. One thing I want to mention to you though. He's right. There is no National Healthcare program. The provinces agree to particular guidelines set out by the feds in exchange for funding. In theory at least, any province can pull out of the federal agreement and go it alone. However, they would have to explain to the electorate that the turned down billions of dollars in federal money for healthcare. Meanwhile, taxpayers federal income tax in that province would still remain the same, because taxes don't change from province to province, and they would need to raise the provincial taxes tremendously to cover the additional costs. Healthcare is the jurisdiction of the provinces, so he's right. However, the "federal program" that you speak of are stipulations that the provinces themselves agree to follow in exchange for funding, rather than being a federal program proper. Which is a great way to design a national system in a country so large. What the NS health care system needs is not the same as what the BC health care system needs. A truly national system would only get in the way as it did with NEP. The Health care model is what we are talking about really, meeting with the provinces asking what they need from the Feds to make a National system work, then going to work and allowing the provinces to implement the systems. We are talking about the Federal government involving the provinces more, which offends those in the provinces (like separatist) less and lets the people of those provinces debate how things should be done. Fellowtraveler would call this Asymmetrical Federalism as he keeps doing because Harper would get less say, I call it just Federalism. Quote
Newfoundlander Posted March 14, 2012 Report Posted March 14, 2012 National systems drive me nuts. I still don't understand the NDP position though, they want to implement a cap and trade system so how would that be done when some provinces don't want it and think it would hurt their economies. Quote
Jack Weber Posted March 14, 2012 Report Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) For the record.. Dion Vs BQ Dion= 14 seats BQ= 49 NDP vs BQ NDP=59 seats BQ=4 For the record,pandering to seperatists under the guise of "assymetrical federalism",or some other cowardly pseudointellectual euphemism,is never a good idea... Trudeau vs FLQ= FLQ DOA!!!! "Just watch me!" Look....You either stand up for this country in the face of treason,or you don't.Capstick's worry that we are offending seperatists underlines the weakminded nature of some in the NDP... Edited March 14, 2012 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
punked Posted March 14, 2012 Report Posted March 14, 2012 For the record,pandering to seperatists under the guise of "assymetrical federalism",or some other cowardly pseudointellectual euphamism,is never a good idea... Trudeau vs FLQ= FLQ DOA!!!! "Just watch me!" Look....You either stand up for this country in the face of treason,or you don't.Capstick's worry that we are offending speeratists underlines the weakminded nature of some in the NDP... And we bribed and suffered through 25 years after Trudeau why? Oh because we didn't want to recognize that Quebec is a distinct culture? Seriously what do Separatists and Federals have in common? Oh yah they are all Canadians and most Separatist still want to be part of Canada but wish to have control of their language and culture. Quote
Smallc Posted March 14, 2012 Report Posted March 14, 2012 most Separatist still want to be part of Canada but wish to have control of their language and culture. Then they shouldn't have a problem with the status quo. Quote
UofGPolitico Posted March 14, 2012 Author Report Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) For the record,pandering to seperatists under the guise of "assymetrical federalism",or some other cowardly pseudointellectual euphemism,is never a good idea... Trudeau vs FLQ= FLQ DOA!!!! "Just watch me!" Look....You either stand up for this country in the face of treason,or you don't.Capstick's worry that we are offending seperatists underlines the weakminded nature of some in the NDP... You hit the nail right on the head. They know full well their "wave" is primarily comprised with disaffected Bloc voters. They captured some federalist voters as well, no doubt, which will also create another problem for them if they are seen to be placating sovereigntists. God bless Pierre Trudeau. I am not a Liberal, and in retrospect, disagree with a whole host of Trudeau's policies as PM, but he is truly the last Prime Minster to show true and effective leadership on the Quebec question. And a side note, I am so glad to have provided a topic that has been met with such response lol. 6 pages in 24 hours! Edited March 14, 2012 by UofGPolitico Quote
Jack Weber Posted March 14, 2012 Report Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) And we bribed and suffered through 25 years after Trudeau why? Oh because we didn't want to recognize that Quebec is a distinct culture? Seriously what do Separatists and Federals have in common? Oh yah they are all Canadians and most Separatist still want to be part of Canada but wish to have control of their language and culture. Wrongo,Sport... The reason we suffered and were bribed was because Mr. Mulroney did'nt have the guts to put the seperatists in there proper place!!! He tried to cajole Quebec into signing the constitution by giving them special constitutional veto power over every other province based soleley on the specious "Distinct Society" clause... This country thankfully shot down two horrendous,wrongheaded accords that used the same pathetic mindset of the Sherbrooke Declaration...We then had to deal with the BQ because Mr. Mulroney did'nt "deliver the goods" to the traitors that were in his own party (Lucien Bouchard,anyone?).. We almost lost the country in '95 because of Mr. Mulroney's legacy... It is NOT Mr. Trudeau who should be blamed for this...He correctly did the end run on the traitor rat,Rene Levesque,in '81.He did'nt give in to Levesque's essential demands for the same thing Mr. Mulroney tried to do... The damage you speak of,was greatly done by the money grubbing,sell out, PC pup from Baie Como.Not the former member from Mount Royal! Edited March 14, 2012 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
capricorn Posted March 14, 2012 Report Posted March 14, 2012 For the record,pandering to seperatists under the guise of "assymetrical federalism",or some other cowardly pseudointellectual euphemism,is never a good idea... Trudeau vs FLQ= FLQ DOA!!!! "Just watch me!" Look....You either stand up for this country in the face of treason,or you don't.Capstick's worry that we are offending seperatists underlines the weakminded nature of some in the NDP... Excellent post Jack. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
punked Posted March 14, 2012 Report Posted March 14, 2012 Wrongo,Sport... The reason we suffered and were bribed was because Mr. Mulroney did'nt have the guts to put the seperatists in there proper place!!! He tried to cajole Quebec into signing the constitution by giving them special constitutional veto power over every other province based soleley on the specious "Distinct Society" clause... This country thankfully shot down two horrendous,wrongheaded accords that used the same pathetic mindset of the Sherbrooke Declaration...We then had to deal with the BQ because Mr. Mulroney did'nt "deliver the goods" to the traitors that were in his own party (Lucien Bouchard,anyone?).. We almost lost the country in '95 because of Mr. Mulroney's legacy... It is NOT Mr. Trudeau who should be blamed for this...He correctly did the end run on the traitor rat,Rene Levesque,in '81.He did'nt give in to Levesque's essential demands for the same thing Mr. Mulroney tried to do... The damage you speak of,was greatly done by the money grubbing,sell out, PC pup from Baie Como.Not the former member from Mount Royal! You keep shouting and clouds and telling Separatists they aren't allowed in your country or to have any other opinion then you have and I promise you that the movement will never die out. The easiest way to create a movement is to create two classes of people because you think someone who has an idea different from yours gets no rights and to make a martyr of them. You are wrong, if you think saying "no one who was ever Bloc is allowed in government ever, and they can't have their voices heard" you are daring Quebec to leave this country. The PC won time and time again when Trudeau was around and Separatism was very strong through out his years in government. So we know his approach did nothing to kill the movement in fact it kept it alive. I do not want to go back to the days where martial law needs to be declared in the streets of Quebec over something so silly. Right now the movement is dead and the only ones keeping alive are English Canada acting like a stupid hypothetical means something. Quote
Jack Weber Posted March 14, 2012 Report Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) You keep shouting and clouds and telling Separatists they aren't allowed in your country or to have any other opinion then you have and I promise you that the movement will never die out. The easiest way to create a movement is to create two classes of people because you think someone who has an idea different from yours gets no rights and to make a martyr of them. You are wrong, if you think saying "no one who was ever Bloc is allowed in government ever, and they can't have their voices heard" you are daring Quebec to leave this country. The PC won time and time again when Trudeau was around and Separatism was very strong through out his years in government. So we know his approach did nothing to kill the movement in fact it kept it alive. I do not want to go back to the days where martial law needs to be declared in the streets of Quebec over something so silly. Right now the movement is dead and the only ones keeping alive are English Canada acting like a stupid hypothetical means something. All your high minded NDP drivel won't change the facts... You,and your wrong headed ilk are willing to pander to seperatists (just like Mr. Mulroney) under the fallacious guise of "a new way forward"... What unadulterated cowardice! the song sort of asks "Who Stands On Guard For Thee?"...It is definately NOT the likes of you... And there are two classes of individuals in this country on this file...Canadians and traitors! We know what side the followers of the Sherbrooke Declaration are on...It same one as Mr. Mulroney who would have sold this country out to this scum... Edited March 14, 2012 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
madmax Posted March 15, 2012 Report Posted March 15, 2012 Look....You either stand up for this country in the face of treason,or you don't.Capstick's worry that we are offending seperatists underlines the weakminded nature of some in the NDP... Erm.. with the BQ reduced the 4 seats.. the goal is to wipe them off the map. Something the Liberals are incapable of doing and actually fed the strenght of the BQ. If we talk about Quebec in the 70s.. the Separtists actually ran the Province. Its clear to me that many want to revive the Separatists.... for political gain. We are tired of the Separatists parties.. The NDP was the only party to reduce them to squat.. GOOD FOR THEM!!! Quote
madmax Posted March 15, 2012 Report Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) All your high minded NDP drivel won't change the facts... You,and your wrong headed ilk are willing to pander to seperatists (just like Mr. Mulroney) under the fallacious guise of "a new way forward"... What unadulterated cowardice! the song sort of asks "Who Stands On Guard For Thee?"...It is definately NOT the likes of you... And there are two classes of individuals in this country on this file...Canadians and traitors! We know what side the followers of the Sherbrooke Declaration are on...It same one as Mr. Mulroney who would have sold this country out to this scum... Wow.. you have just gone over the top... You would think no Liberal MPs ever went to the BQ.. well they did... IMHO its better for Voters to leave the BQ as their choice... You want to relive the old battles.. its those old battles and the Liberal Corruption within Quebec that DROVE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF VOTERS away from the party... And those who wanted "Protection" from the Separtists had to plug their noses and vote for corruption... Well soon they voters were facing the new influx of the Conservative Party and shortly after they discovered the NDP. Good for them... Voters in Quebec do not have to be stuck with the Liberals and the BQ and their never ending phoney war...that requires one to be around for the other to be relavent. Edited March 15, 2012 by madmax Quote
Newfoundlander Posted March 15, 2012 Report Posted March 15, 2012 Erm.. with the BQ reduced the 4 seats.. the goal is to wipe them off the map. Something the Liberals are incapable of doing and actually fed the strenght of the BQ. If we talk about Quebec in the 70s.. the Separtists actually ran the Province. Its clear to me that many want to revive the Separatists.... for political gain. We are tired of the Separatists parties.. The NDP was the only party to reduce them to squat.. GOOD FOR THEM!!! What difference did it really make if the Bloc Quebecois had representation in the House of Commons or not, with regards to how strong separatism is in Quebec? Quote
capricorn Posted March 15, 2012 Report Posted March 15, 2012 What difference did it really make if the Bloc Quebecois had representation in the House of Commons or not, with regards to how strong separatism is in Quebec? One difference it made is what Duceppe got out of it. Mr. Duceppe lost his seat in Parliament, but he’s still collecting $140,765 every year for life from Canadian taxpayers, the gift of a grateful nation for a lifetime of devoted service to trying to break it up. That’s after his Bloc collected $23.5 million from taxpayers and his put the party’s executive director on the Parliamentary payroll. http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/03/07/gilles-duceppe-heralded-for-a-lifetime-of-waste-in-parliament/ Not bad for a guy who's only job was to oppose. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
cybercoma Posted March 15, 2012 Report Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) One difference it made is what Duceppe got out of it. http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/03/07/gilles-duceppe-heralded-for-a-lifetime-of-waste-in-parliament/ Not bad for a guy who's only job was to oppose. The people that voted for him and the party he led are part of this nation and pay taxes to this nation. Get over it. Edited March 15, 2012 by cybercoma Quote
capricorn Posted March 15, 2012 Report Posted March 15, 2012 The people that voted for him and the party he led are part of this nation and pay taxes to this nation. I didn't know that. Get over it. Not getting over it as much as being resigned to it. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
g_bambino Posted March 15, 2012 Report Posted March 15, 2012 Not bad for a guy who's only job was to oppose. Opposition is an integral part of democracy. Quote
WWWTT Posted March 15, 2012 Report Posted March 15, 2012 All your high minded NDP drivel won't change the facts... You,and your wrong headed ilk are willing to pander to seperatists (just like Mr. Mulroney) under the fallacious guise of "a new way forward"... What unadulterated cowardice! the song sort of asks "Who Stands On Guard For Thee?"...It is definately NOT the likes of you... And there are two classes of individuals in this country on this file...Canadians and traitors! We know what side the followers of the Sherbrooke Declaration are on...It same one as Mr. Mulroney who would have sold this country out to this scum... Some pretty strong dialogue there Jack. I don't think you understand that sometimes in life we have to make comprimise/sacrifice. And sometimes we have to say "Hey if you want to go then there's the door". But to do these things it takes alot of bravery, understanding and compasion. I don't think your the right person to be dictating the future of this country,better let that job to the people who have the confidence of the voters such as the NDP! WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
capricorn Posted March 15, 2012 Report Posted March 15, 2012 Opposition is an integral part of democracy. I fully agree bambino. I just couldn't resist taking a shot at Duceppe. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
Wild Bill Posted March 15, 2012 Report Posted March 15, 2012 I don't think your the right person to be dictating the future of this country,better let that job to the people who have the confidence of the voters such as the NDP! WWWTT Isn't that a bit presumptuous? The NDP hardly has the confidence of the MAJORITY of Canadians on this issue! Or any other, last I checked. Otherwise, they would be the governing party of Canada. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
WWWTT Posted March 15, 2012 Report Posted March 15, 2012 Isn't that a bit presumptuous? The NDP hardly has the confidence of the MAJORITY of Canadians on this issue! They do federaly in Quebec. As for the rest of Canada,good things come with a little time. WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
Jack Weber Posted March 15, 2012 Report Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) Erm.. with the BQ reduced the 4 seats.. the goal is to wipe them off the map. Something the Liberals are incapable of doing and actually fed the strenght of the BQ. If we talk about Quebec in the 70s.. the Separtists actually ran the Province. Its clear to me that many want to revive the Separatists.... for political gain. We are tired of the Separatists parties.. The NDP was the only party to reduce them to squat.. GOOD FOR THEM!!! 1.Don't assume I'm a Liberal... 2.Incredibly,some here think that pandering to seperatists by giving them the ultimate bone of a constitutional veto beased solely on "distinct society" nonsense is going to "wipe seperatists of the map"... 3.The NDP did'nt reduce seperatists to squat at all...They simply co-opted the seperatist lingo,intend to throw them a bone through the wrongheaded Sherbrooke Decalration,and otherwise,fully represent the scum in parliament instead of it being the BQ... The NDP are simply carrying on the weak minded,Mulroneyesque theory that if you appease these people they'll eventually come to like us.That's not how the seperatist mind works.The hardcore element in that province will never accept being part of this country,so why should any federalist party try to cajole them into staying? Edited March 15, 2012 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Wild Bill Posted March 15, 2012 Report Posted March 15, 2012 1.Don't assume I'm a Liberal... 2.Incredibly,some here think that pandering to seperatists by giving them the ultimate bone of a constitutional veto beased solely on "distinct society" nonsense is going to "wipe seperatists of the map"... 3.The NDP did'nt reduce seperatists to squat at all...They simply co-opted the seperatist lingo,intend to throw them a bone through the wrongheaded Sherbrooke Decalration,and otherwise,fully represent the scum in parliament instead of it being the BQ... The NDP are simply carrying on the weak minded,Mulroneyesque theory that if you appease these people they'll eventually come to like us.That's not how the seperatist mind works.The hardcore element in that province will never accept being part of this country,so why should any federalist party try to cajole them into staying? Quite right, Jack! I never fail to be amazed at how some folks believe in this approach. I call it the "Modern Liberal Neville Chamberlain Approach to Canadian Unity". It works about as well as it did for Neville Chamberlain! Another comparison would be the typical male approach to a separation from his wife. Many guys give them everything, hoping their woman will suddenly realize what nice guys they are and decide to stay. Of course, what always happens is the woman takes everything he gives her and then uses a lawyer to get half of whatever is left! In any dispute, people respect strength. A pushover loses, every time. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Jack Weber Posted March 15, 2012 Report Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) Wow.. you have just gone over the top... You would think no Liberal MPs ever went to the BQ.. well they did... IMHO its better for Voters to leave the BQ as their choice... You want to relive the old battles.. its those old battles and the Liberal Corruption within Quebec that DROVE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF VOTERS away from the party... And those who wanted "Protection" from the Separtists had to plug their noses and vote for corruption... Well soon they voters were facing the new influx of the Conservative Party and shortly after they discovered the NDP. Good for them... Voters in Quebec do not have to be stuck with the Liberals and the BQ and their never ending phoney war...that requires one to be around for the other to be relavent. The only thing those voters discovered was that NDP were prepared to pick up the seperatist slack left by the BQ,all under the banner of "assymetrical federalism"... Who needs a seperatist party when a federalist party will do all the same work of soft pedaling Quebec nationalism and provide the necessary convenient cover in the process? It might be good for seperatists in Quebec that this has happened...They found a weakminded national party prepared to legitimize them all at once... The J.S. Woodworth gutlessness of that party lives on!!! Edited March 17, 2012 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
WWWTT Posted March 15, 2012 Report Posted March 15, 2012 The only thing those voters discovered was that NDP were prepared to pick up the seperatist slack left by the BQ,all under the banner of "assymetrical federalism"... Who needs a seperatist party when a federalist party will do all the same work of soft pedaling Quebec nationalism and provide the necessary convenient cover in the process? It might goof for seperatists in Quebec that this has happened...They found a weakminded national party prepared to legitimize them all at once... The J.S. Woodworth gutlessness of that party lives on!!! Yes very good thats quite the rant! So let me ask you Jack,do you feel belittled that the seperast threat has bein reduced to a whimper thanks to the NDP? What injustice will you champion now after you have bein proven wrong? Yes thats right Jack,the seperatist threat has bein gone now for some time,made official by the NDP.So why are you trying to resurect your sworn enemy of confederation? Or maybe you're equally upset that the NDP are the victors that have proven your(and Wild Bill) theory wrong? Sometimes diplomacy works,actually I should say most of the time diplomacy works! WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
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