.

[Newfoundlander]

do you trust the cpc to hand the unaltered scripts over?

I'm sure they've been shredded by now.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Newfoundlander

[capricorn]

I'm sure they've been shredded by now.

You're sure hey? In any case, if it is true that the call center operators felt they were asked to do something illegal or unethical, don't you think one or more of them would have kept a copy of the script? If my boss ordered me to do something I thought was not right, I would make sure I kept whatever proof I had to defend myself should it ever be necessary.

[olpfan1]

I'm sure they've been shredded by now.

They had the script for the robo calling irwin cotlers riding spreading lies

they let the opposition see it i read

i dont see why they wouldnt still have copies IF it was as they say

a series of mess ups

[Newfoundlander]

You're sure hey? In any case, if it is true that the call center operators felt they were asked to do something illegal or unethical, don't you think one or more of them would have kept a copy of the script? If my boss ordered me to do something I thought was not right, I would make sure I kept whatever proof I had to defend myself should it ever be necessary.

Guess we'll find out, hopefully sooner rather than later.

[capricorn]

Guess we'll find out, hopefully sooner rather than later.

I'm certain the opposition parties hope it is later than sooner. They haven't milked this story long enough to their satisfaction. Plus they need time to freshen the memories of all those Liberal and NDP constituents who received calls.

Eventually Elections Canada will report on its findings. Who knows how long that will take.

[olpfan1]

http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/02/27/the-trouble-with-the-harper-governments-explanation/

I count 11 ridings that have so far been linked to allegations that voters were called about their polling stations: Guelph, Kitchener Centre, Kitchener-Conestoga, Kitchener-Waterloo, London West, Parkdale-High Park, Nipissing-Timiskaming, Elmwood-Transcona, Winnipeg South Centre, Sydney-Victoria and Saanich-Gulf Islands. (For sourcing see here, here, here, here and here.)

Meanwhile, the CBC now has a list of all the ridings where changes to polling stations occurred during the last 24 days of last year’s election. Of those 11 ridings that are the subject of alleged phone calls about polling stations, I see four on that list: Kitchener Centre, Kitchener-Conestoga, Guelph and Parkdale-High Park.

The other seven are not mentioned.

Edited February 28, 2012 by olpfan1

[olpfan1]

BUSTED

http://m.theobserver.ca/articledisplay.aspx?e=3484340

Conservative MP Pat Davidson defended her 2011 federal election campaign Monday after new details emerged in the so-called “robocalls” scandal.

Former employees of Response Marketing Group hired by the federal Conservative Party claim they were asked to read scripts that claimed Elections Canada had changed its polling locations, according to new reports.

Davidson’s was one of 95 Conservative election campaigns that used RMG, according to Elections Canada. Her campaign paid $27,685 to “RMG Relationships & Results.”

Davidson told The Observer that neither the federal Conservative Party or her local campaign were behind any misleading calls in Sarnia-Lambton.

“We did have some calls reported to us that (voters) were (directed) to a place that wasn’t even an address,” she said Monday. “It wasn’t coming from us. I don’t know who were doing the calls. We reported them to Elections Canada.”

The Observer was aware of one misleading call made during the 2011 election. A St. Clements, Ont. resident contacted the newspaper after tracing back to a Sarnia-Lambton number an automated message that provided a wrong polling station. The voice mail identified the number as belonging to the Conservative Party.

Davidson’s campaign manager, Mike Hanki, said callers from RMG contacted constituents on behalf of Davidson during the election. Those calls were made to identify voters, to remind people to vote, and to hear about local issues, he said.

“As far as (identifying) polling (locations), we don’t do that because to me, that would be a waste of our funds because that’s always provided by Elections Canada in the paper.”

Hanki did hear about misleading calls, but the complaints came from Conservative supporters who had received them, he said.

“We did have a lot of concerns on that because we had a lot of our supporters calling us up on that very same thing.”

The complaints were forwarded to Elections Canada, he said.

Interim Liberal leader Bob Rae asked the Speaker Monday for an emergency debate on the issue. He said the Liberal party has identified 27 ridings with allegations of voter suppression and electoral fraud.

“We are entering into a kind of Nixonian moment in our political culture, where all kinds of dirty tricks seem to be possible,” Rae said Monday.

Davidson’s campaign office was also one of 67 federal Conservatives involved in the so-called “in and out” election scandal, when expenses were shifted between local campaigns and the national Conservative campaign to skirt the $8.3-million Elections Canada advertising spending cap.

[scribblet]

That isnt their job.. thats elections canadas job

Is it, does E.C. make Robo calls about it, or do they just notify the R.O. who has to see the changes get out. And yes, they put it in the paper, but not everyone reads it, so it is part of the campaign office's job to see that their voters know where to vote.

Edited February 28, 2012 by scribblet

[olpfan1]

Is it, does E.C. make Robo calls about it, or do they just notify the R.O. who has to see the changes get out. And yes, it is part of the campaign office's job to see that their voters know where to vote.

its absolutely not their job to say they are from elections canada

that is illegal

[Newfoundlander]

its absolutely not their job to say they are from elections canada

that is illegal

But those are just allegations at this point. The Conservatives are admitting to calling their identified supporters to make sure they knew about changes, in those calls they didn't pose as Elections Canada employees.

[capricorn]

Hey Capricorn, are you sure you have the right link?

Yes, that's the link I intended Spider. The point being that Elections Canada had plenty of reasons back then to conduct an investigation but it seems it went nowhere. Now all of a sudden we have a crisis. Sorry if it didn't clarify anything for you but I hope you found it a teeny bit informative.

[Newfoundlander]

It was revealing as to what teenagers regard as fun on a Friday night, but as far as substantiating claims of electoral fraud, it fell a little short. It's hard to believe Ms. Bennetts campaign manager considers this delinquent activity "voter suppression of the worst kind". Seems a little dramatic to me.

Might not have been a fun Friday night for teenagers, the Liberals were convicted of damaging signs and stealing Green Party flyers.

[capricorn]

It was revealing as to what teenagers regard as fun on a Friday night, but as far as substantiating claims of systemic electoral fraud, it fell a little short. It's hard to believe Ms. Bennetts campaign manager considers this delinquent activity "voter suppression of the worst kind". Seems a little dramatic to me.

I'll point out that some people, opposition MPs, pundits and on this forum, said the Conservatives are conveniently coming forward of late to say they too received robocalls, simply to deflect their guilt. The link shows that as far back as May 2, 2011, Conservatives did indeed report receiving robocalls.

The CBC reported that some calls were reportedly traced to American area codes and to a Canadian call centre doing some legitimate Liberal calling that denies it.

The CBC also reported that one of its journalists had talked to NDP and Conservative supporters who had experienced the same kinds of phone calls.

[UofGPolitico]

This story makes me head spin! Its hard to keep up with it, and at the same time, cut through the rhetoric on all sides to actually know what is true, what is exaggerated, and what is an all out lie.

This story has the makings of one being in the headlines for months to come. The Cons better hope senior people in the party are not implicated in this. There is no concrete evidence to suggest that, yet. If senior people are implicated though, we could have another Pacific and Sponsorship on our hands i.e. a scandal that finishes a government.

2015 will be 9 years of Tory rule, isn't that usually the shelf life for Conservative governments historically? LOL.

[Battletoads]

Nothing in the big news sites as of yet, but I'm hearing that the RCMP may have recently executed a search warrant on Racknine.

[olpfan1]

Nothing in the big news sites as of yet, but I'm hearing that the RCMP may have recently executed a search warrant on Racknine.

yes they did but racknine is not being investigated, the conservative party is

[Shakeyhands]

Yes, the author will be attacked here, but you do forget some of these over time...

A plethora of questionable deeds and tactics.......

[CPCFTW]

yes they did but racknine is not being investigated, the conservative party is

Stop lying please.

[CPCFTW]

yes they did but racknine is not being investigated, the conservative party is

Stop lying please.

[mentalfloss]

It's time for the Conservatives to come clean and reveal the evidence.

Mainly, the scripts that were sent during election.

Right now, all we have is some massive coincidence of all these people, whether in Kitchener, Guelph, or as many as 30 other ridings, getting calls to say their voting location had changed. The Conservatives are saying that they provided only true, helpful, factual information to voters, though some mistakes might have been made.

Let's go back to the December controversy over the calls made to Irwin Cotler's riding, in which constituents reported they were told that Mr. Cotler was resigning. The Conservative Party admitted that it paid the firm to do these calls and that it tightly managed what callers were supposed to say. In the process, we also learned a bit more about how these call centres work. In fact, numerous Conservative spokespersons, media outlets and the Marketing Research Intelligence Association were given copies of the script in question.

Note: The whole defence in the Cotler-call controversy was that these robocall firms were just calling people with the words the Conservative party supplied to them. If someone went off script, well, that wasn't the fault of Campaign Research or the party.

So. What we need to see now is the script that the Conservative Party supplied to Responsive Marketing Group. The party was able to produce one for the Cotler calls controversy; I'm assuming it has the one supplied to this firm too. In fact, let's see the scripts the Conservatives wrote for all the call centres. If it's all true information, it shouldn't be a problem, right?

Let's see the scripts

Edited February 28, 2012 by mentalfloss

[mentalfloss]

Whereas the Liberal staffer is not even mentioned through one news cycle of MSM articles on "dirty tricks" robocalls or harassing calls even though this incident also happened during the investigation.

Conservatives are unfortunately taking the brunt of this because of their reputation in the house. When there is no smoking gun, the media will attack the most likely culprit.

All the CPC need to do now is show their scripts so they can clear their name and end this unnecessary controversy.

Edited February 28, 2012 by mentalfloss

[Topaz]

I think the only way WE are going to find out is if a whistle blower comes forward and I'm sure, if the Tories DID do this, then very few know about it because the penalty is jail time. I also believe that the caucus wouldn't know except maybe the front bencher advisors like Baird, Clements Flaherty and campaign manager, who was? and maybe a senator. I wonder if that way Strahal and Day decided to leave, they knew about the dirty tricks? If you think about it, since the 2006 election the Tories have had more people leave than the other parties together, outside of an election, why? I also think the Tories would be smart enough to hit their own ridings with robocalls, so like Del Mastro, can say "Hey, I got hit too"!! yeah right.

[Wild Bill]

It's time for the Conservatives to come clean and reveal the evidence.

Mainly, the scripts that were sent during election.

Right now, all we have is some massive coincidence of all these people, whether in Kitchener, Guelph, or as many as 30 other ridings, getting calls to say their voting location had changed. The Conservatives are saying that they provided only true, helpful, factual information to voters, though some mistakes might have been made.

Let's go back to the December controversy over the calls made to Irwin Cotler's riding, in which constituents reported they were told that Mr. Cotler was resigning. The Conservative Party admitted that it paid the firm to do these calls and that it tightly managed what callers were supposed to say. In the process, we also learned a bit more about how these call centres work. In fact, numerous Conservative spokespersons, media outlets and the Marketing Research Intelligence Association were given copies of the script in question.

Note: The whole defence in the Cotler-call controversy was that these robocall firms were just calling people with the words the Conservative party supplied to them. If someone went off script, well, that wasn't the fault of Campaign Research or the party.

So. What we need to see now is the script that the Conservative Party supplied to Responsive Marketing Group. The party was able to produce one for the Cotler calls controversy; I'm assuming it has the one supplied to this firm too. In fact, let's see the scripts the Conservatives wrote for all the call centres. If it's all true information, it shouldn't be a problem, right?

Let's see the scripts

I wasn't aware that these scripts would have been legal documents, obliged to be kept for years!

Do YOU keep every piece of paper you scrawl on, no matter if you thought it was trivial?

[Wild Bill]

Conservatives are unfortunately taking the brunt of this because of their reputation in the house. When there is no smoking gun, the media will attack the most likely culprit.

All the CPC need to do now is show their scripts so they can clear their name and end this unnecessary controversy.

I don't agree, mentalfloss! Having watched this sort of thing for over 45 years it seems to be that there IS a double standard in much of the media! Tories ALWAYS get hammered worse than Liberals or NDP!

However, there is also an even stronger factor. It makes better news to attack the guys in charge rather than the Opposition. Really, most of the time who CARES about the Opposition?

Even sadder for the Liberals, their brand is so tarnished the public has come to EXPECT sin and corruption from them! It is no longer news and so is less strongly reported.

I still remember years ago there was a time when the Chretien Liberals were in the middle of a mess of scandals. I don't specifically recall which one was ahead at that time - it may have been Chretien's forcing a bank loans officer to give a loan to a man with poor credit so that he could take a piece of property off Chretien's hands.

Anyhow, the pertinent point was not a particular scandal. All the media could talk about was that someone had come across some receipts for Preston Manning's dry cleaning, where some articles of clothing may have been personal and not for use at party functions or business!

I doubt if the bill could have been over $10 at the time yet the media was putting this not just equal but above the Chretien scandal!

[GostHacked]

Listening to the CBC on my way into work, I heard an interview with some lady from a call center. Her claims that it was not just robocalls, but real live calls from people in call centers like this lady. So this goes beyond robocalls, our election process was already under threat, and now it's just more so.

The interview was on 'The Current' between 8:30AM and 9:00AM EST. Should be able to listen to it here later today or tomorrow.