.

[capricorn]

And maybe the culprits will never be apprehended...

Calls for a judicial inquiry or a Royal Commission amount to a "double dog dare" from many quarters for EC to solve this one ASAP. My guess is EC is working quadruple overtime on these complaints to 1) prove they're up to the job, and 2) defend their reputation as chief investigators of electoral irregularities and defenders of the electoral process. I think EC will come through.

[jacee]

I notice that the Conservative spin focuses on whether or not votes were actually suppressed (and claims they weren't).

In fact, it's irrelevant whether the tactics worked or not: ATTEMPTING to suppress votes is the legal issue.

I think it goes well beyond whether a byelection is necessary (though that's a start). IF there was national party involvement, then all Canadians deserve a chance to decide again whether they want to vote fo a party that uses illegal tactics - ie, cheats.

I think if I was a Conservative voter with a conscience, I'd be feeling pretty sickened right now.

[Bryan]

II think if I was a Conservative voter with a conscience, I'd be feeling pretty sickened right now.

If it is proven that the federal Conservative Party did it, conservative voters will probably be disappointed to some degree, but I don't think they'll really care very much. I highly doubt it would change very many votes. It's not as if there is a credible alternative option out there.

Besides, there's no evidence so far that the Conservatives did any of the things they're accused of. We do, on the other hand, know for a fact that other parties were involved in these things.

[stopstaaron]

If it is proven that the federal Conservative Party did it, conservative voters will probably be disappointed to some degree, but I don't think they'll really care very much. I highly doubt it would change very many votes. It's not as if there is a credible alternative option out there.

Besides, there's no evidence so far that the Conservatives did any of the things they're accused of. We do, on the other hand, know for a fact that other parties were involved in these things.

There is no proof other parties called people to send them to a different polling station however the conservatives are being investigated for it

Maybe we should count the sins of the parties?

Conservatives:

Discrediting Irwin Cotler by robocalling his constituents and telling them he is resigning and then using their hand picked unelected MP to do conservative bidding in the riding.

Using American call centres but masking the phone number so that it looks like the call is being made in Canada when its really being made in America.

Using live Canadian call centres to robocall Canadians while claiming the message is from Elections Canada

Robocalling its voters when polling stations "change" even though EC specifically says not to do that.

Overspending on campaigns and money laundering across multiple campaigns.

Liberals

Robocalling about an MPs stance on abortion without identifying which party is sponsoring the call.

NDP

Harassing a traitorous MP via robocalls & nastiness who defected to the liberal party.

[stopstaaron]

You cannot substantiate your statement.

All calls made by "Pierre Poutine" have been traced. Almost all of them (over 5,000) were made in the Guelph riding. The other calls constitute about 100 in several ridings in Ontario, made obviously by some mistake, because they sent voters to the poll station in Guelph (an existing poll station by the

way).

huh? 5000 calls were made in the 519 area code.. which goes from Windsor to Sarnia to London to KW

You're wrong when you say just the "Guelph riding" there are many ridings there

[stopstaaron]

The other calls constitute about 100 in several ridings in Ontario, made obviously by some mistake, because they sent voters to the poll station in Guelph (an existing poll station by the way).

Sorry to burst your bubble but it did not say that in the article

It said this

There are unverified reports from some voters, though, that they received recorded calls similar to the Guelph call, directing them not to the Quebec Street Mall location in Guelph, but to locations in other ridings.

Some of those calls may have come from telephone numbers other than that assigned to the Joliette, Que., “burner” phone that Poutine used for his misdirection campaign.

If those reports are confirmed, it would suggest that the mysterious Poutine was acting beyond Guelph, recording a series of messages designed to bamboozle voters in different ridings.

Edited March 19, 2012 by stopstaaron

[Bryan]

Maybe we should count the sins of the parties?

There's a difference. The LPC and NDP calls are proven facts that the parties even admit to. The calls supposedly coming from Conservatives are still as yet unfounded, unproven accusations coming from the people we already know ARE guilty. Many of these accusations have already been retracted and apologized for by the NDP and the media. Some of them are the subject of defamation lawsuits too.

[waldo]

I think EC will come through.

and yet... Harper Conservatives (& supporters) have shown a past pattern of not accepting, not respecting, Elections Canada involvements/results. What's changed?

but hey now... did ya hear the one about Conservative partisans releasing records of robocalls made

Conservative partisans tried on Friday to tamp down the notion that the problem was bigger than Guelph, releasing records of calls made by an unknown operative who hid behind the alias Pierre Poutine.

which, of course, begs the questions:

yes... where did the Conservatives get the/a list of numbers called? Why did the Conservatives have the list of numbers called?”

CBC's Terry Milewski - March17:

“We now have, thanks to [the National Post's] John Ivison, the list of numbers called by Pierre Poutine. Now where did those come from? Well, the Conservative Party, according to John’s story, is likely to use this to show that it was more limited than many people thought – it was kind of Guelph plus extra. That raises the question –

where did they get this list of numbers? Where did the Conservatives get it? Why did the Conservatives have it?

”

which of course, begs the further question: Might the Conservatives have got the records from Elections Canada... and, if so, what might that suggest, might that imply in terms of Elections Canada possibly being influenced/compromised? Oh my... perhaps that's what has changed in regards your thoughts on, "EC coming through", hey?

[waldo]

There's a difference.

uhhh... what party and/or its supporters would have the motivation, the rationale, to... allegedly... engage in vote suppression tactics aimed at non-Conservative voters?

[Bryan]

uhhh... what party and/or its supporters would have the motivation, the rationale, to... allegedly... engage in vote suppression tactics aimed at non-Conservative voters?

Plenty of Conservative supporters were targeted too. It was the Conservatives who first brought forth the complaints of Robocalls about moved polling stations during the election. It wasn't until they discovered that other parties may have also been affected that Elections Canada deemed it worth their while to look into it.

[waldo]

Plenty of Conservative supporters were targeted too. It was the Conservatives who first brought forth the complaints of Robocalls about moved polling stations during the election. It wasn't until they discovered that other parties may have also been affected that Elections Canada deemed it worth their while to look into it.

the only specific Conservative targeting I'm aware of is the attack related to a Conservative MPs stance on abortion (in that case the calls failed to identify an associated party affiliation). If there were others than all the more impetus for a full inquiry. In any case... you didn't answer my question; again:

uhhh... what party and/or its supporters would have the motivation, the rationale, to... allegedly... engage in vote suppression tactics aimed at non-Conservative voters?

[Bryan]

the only specific Conservative targeting I'm aware of is the attack related to a Conservative MPs stance on abortion (in that case the calls failed to identify an associated party affiliation). If there were others than all the more impetus for a full inquiry.

Plenty of Conservatives were called during the campaign, and told to go to the wrong polls. It was the Conservatives who first brought the complaint forward.

In any case... you didn't answer my question; again:

uhhh... what party and/or its supporters would have the motivation, the rationale, to... allegedly... engage in vote suppression tactics aimed at non-Conservative voters?

I didn't answer the question, because it's based on a false premise. The calls were made to all parties, not just non-conservatives.

[waldo]

Plenty of Conservatives were called during the campaign, and told to go to the wrong polls. It was the Conservatives who first brought the complaint forward.

citation(s) to that effect would reinforce my overall concerns and, again, raise the impetus for the need for a full inquiry... can you provide that/those reinforcing citation(s)?

I didn't answer the question, because it's based on a false premise. The calls were made to all parties, not just non-conservatives.

alrightee, subject to subsequent citations you may provide; but again, accepting to your "true premise", with regard to those non-Conservative voters targeted with vote suppression tactics, could you answer the question:

uhhh... what party and/or its supporters would have the motivation, the rationale, to... allegedly... engage in vote suppression tactics aimed at non-Conservative voters?

[cybercoma]

Plenty of Conservative supporters were targeted too. It was the Conservatives who first brought forth the complaints of Robocalls about moved polling stations during the election. It wasn't until they discovered that other parties may have also been affected that Elections Canada deemed it worth their while to look into it.

It's incredible how you'll just make things up off the top of your head to confirm your biases.

[mentalfloss]

the only specific Conservative targeting I'm aware of is the attack related to a Conservative MPs stance on abortion (in that case the calls failed to identify an associated party affiliation).

It's the only robocall the conservatives have brought forth and as you've pointed out, it had nothing to do with voter suppression. It was an attempt by the CPC to muddy the waters with another red herring, much like their new line about the NDP last week.

[Topaz]

Lets' face it, when it comes to political crime, THIS Conservative party is tops. There's more wrongful things they have done since entering the doors of the House than any other party in our time. Some of them we know about and I was told of a situation the Tories did to one of the parties, if its true, then ANYTHING is possible for the Tories. So even if was an outsider, and if what they did change the outcome of the election, then I believe there has to be another national election. The public has seen how the Tories work and I believe they don't TRUST this party and that they are capable of wrong doing again. This view is judging the party of THEIR past actions and NOT because they are Tories.

[Shakeyhands]

If it is proven that the federal Conservative Party did it, conservative voters will probably be disappointed to some degree,

By the tone around here, I doubt it.

[g_bambino]

The public has seen how the Tories work and I believe they don't TRUST this party...

When did the public become unanimous and you the spokesperson?

Is there anything remotely related to the Conservative Party that doesn't make you hyperventilate?

[stopstaaron]

There's a difference. The LPC and NDP calls are proven facts that the parties even admit to. The calls supposedly coming from Conservatives are still as yet unfounded, unproven accusations coming from the people we already know ARE guilty. Many of these accusations have already been retracted and apologized for by the NDP and the media. Some of them are the subject of defamation lawsuits too.

Actually a lot of those were proven. Even Del Mastro admitted some of those were mistakes/misunderstandings

even in his own campaign, no amount of spin will make you right

[stopstaaron]

Someone wrote earlier no one has come forward and said they couldn't vote because they were surpressed but I've read a few articles of people

getting a call and going to the "new" polling station only to realize its the wrong one and being too tired/discouraged to vote

.. these were older people.. I can definitely see how they'd be out of gas

[huh]

Lets' face it, when it comes to political crime, THIS Conservative party is tops. There's more wrongful things they have done since entering the doors of the House than any other party in our time. Some of them we know about and I was told of a situation the Tories did to one of the parties, if its true, then ANYTHING is possible for the Tories. So even if was an outsider, and if what they did change the outcome of the election, then I believe there has to be another national election. The public has seen how the Tories work and I believe they don't TRUST this party and that they are capable of wrong doing again. This view is judging the party of THEIR past actions and NOT because they are Tories.

It seems to me that you write a lot while saying nothing at all. Investigate, prosecute, punish, anything less is as big an affront to our democracy as these allegations, try being consistent in your philosophy.

Edited March 19, 2012 by huh

[stopstaaron]

Just found this on Susan Delacourt's twitter @susandelacourt

Just talked to ElxnCan. They say that because #CPC ads attack @bobraeMP , as opposed to @GrantGordonLib , they're not byelxn ads.

#cdnpoli

@davidvalentin They're being aired on some TV networks now though.

Yes, further to previous tweet, also the #CPC ads don't fall under by-elxn day ban bcs they're being aired as news, not ads. #cdnpoli

[cybercoma]

More cheating from the Conservatives. Imagine that.

[stopstaaron]

More cheating from the Conservatives. Imagine that.

They sure do know how to skirt the rules don't they

[capricorn]

however the conservatives are being investigated for it

I challenge you to provide a link that says the Conservatives are being investigated.