Toews says we support Child Pornographers

[punked]

The government is also talking about compensation for those ISPs.

So now the government is going to take my tax dollars and give them to an ISP to do something that wont help anyone do anything? Sounds like the gun registry all over again. I imagine if it goes through it play out much the same way as Canadians see it does nothing but hog bandwidth in country that already pays the highest bandwidth charges in the world. It will lead to more caps because ISPs will be forced to pick between offering good Internet or complying with the law. It will make us uncompetitive as a country on the Internet and is clearly anti business. Man these guys are stepping in it because they don't understand the internet.

[scribblet]

Toews is backtracking on that now - but you guys do know that the bill is going back to committee for discussion and likely amendments before going to second reading. Mr. Harper actually did that a few days ago.

[punked]

Toews is backtracking on that now - but you guys do know that the bill is going back to committee for discussion and likely amendments before going to second reading. Mr. Harper actually did that a few days ago.

Problem is because of poor investment in the info structure and having such a large country this is going to set our country back in terms of Internet 5-10 years. These people really don't understand what they are doing and should leave well enough alone because it is going to hurt our country and their party.

[Wild Bill]

Toews is backtracking on that now - but you guys do know that the bill is going back to committee for discussion and likely amendments before going to second reading. Mr. Harper actually did that a few days ago.

Scribb, it's nice that the Tories are amenable for amendments but wouldn't it have made more sense if Vic's Bill was a bit more refined in the first place?

This Bill reminds me of my days working for Westinghouse in the 80's. It was a 'Dilbert' atmosphere, where management insisted on making even the most trivial decisions but were totally ignorant of the factors involved. They allowed only 2 of those new-fangled fax machines, one for management and one for the other 200 office workers. Like with their teletype, they had an employee dedicated to taking the fax msgs off the machine and delivering them to the addressed party.

This Bill's attempts to take some control over the Internet reminds me of that sort of thinking in two ways. One is that whoever wrote the Bill really didn't understand how the Internet actually works and the other is that the author was likely Vic himself!

I say it again and again, there was no need for this gaffe to happen. Vic was left on his own and he turned out something inept that has his party trying to put out the fire.

If not sacked, he should be given a VERY short leash in future!

[scribblet]

Scribb, it's nice that the Tories are amenable for amendments but wouldn't it have made more sense if Vic's Bill was a bit more refined in the first place?

---------------

Sure it would because they knew from the earlier bill how unpopular it was, but surely Toews was not the only person to work on it, there would've been a committee etc.

I still believe there is a lack of communication somewhere, because Toews and other MPs are still saying that is that the police can ask the ips provider to give them the name etc for the person in question but

they still have to get a search warrant to access the account. I often believe that the opposition over the top hyperbole and rhetoric swamps out the facts. Never the less, it will likely be changed.

Also read that other countries such as Australia have similar legislation, I'd like to see what they have and how similar it really is.

I also believe there should be more accountability for behaviour in the HOC, it's getting worse, and that includes Wayne Easter and his over the top comments.

Edited February 18, 2012 by scribblet

[punked]

Sure it would because they knew from the earlier bill how unpopular it was, but surely Toews was not the only person to work on it, there would've been a committee etc.

I still believe there is a lack of communication somewhere, because Toews and other MPs are still saying that is that the police can ask the ips provider to give them the name etc for the person in question but

they still have to get a search warrant to access the account. I often believe that the opposition over the top hyperbole and rhetoric swamps out the facts. Never the less, it will likely be changed.

Also read that other countries such as Australia have similar legislation, I'd like to see what they have and how similar it really is.

I would just point out Australia does have similar legislation I think it passed a few years ago and people have seen their Internet services suffer because of it. In fact Australia has the slowest and most expensive high speed internet in the developed world. If their arguement is our internet should be more like Australia's then we are in big trouble.

Sydney households pay an average $2.65 per month for one megabyte of service at a speed of 1.7 megabytes a second, according to the Information Technology and Innovation Foundation's broadband rankings.

By comparison, users in Japan have the world's fastest broadband and pay a paltry 29 cents per month for one megabyte at a blistering 61 megabytes a second.

On a scale of speed, Australia is even ranked behind the Slovak Republic, which separated from the former soviet country Czechoslovakia in 1993 following the fall of communism in Eastern Europe.

Was the governments idea to find the worst internet in the world and think it would be a good idea to follow their model? Is that how our government works because if it is then they are worse then anyone thought they would be. I truly now think it was the opposition forcing their ideas on this government that made Canada a much better country over the last years.

Edited February 18, 2012 by punked

[BubberMiley]

I also believe there should be more accountability for behaviour in the HOC, it's getting worse, and that includes Wayne Easter and his over the top comments.

What about "over-the-top" rhetoric like saying you support this bill or you support child pornography?

[scribblet]

What about "over-the-top" rhetoric like saying you support this bill or you support child pornography?

I agree it was over the top, and also agree that it was in response to over the top rhetoric and outlandish suggestions by the opposition. Which speaks to the issue of behaviour and the ethics (or lack thereof) behind the use of social media - or - the new tabloid journalism. It will be addressed on Sunday with Craig Oliver but I won't be able to watch it so hopefully there will be a write up or I can watch it online later.

One thing among the uproar is the media et al overlooking the Liberal hypocrisy over this, just as they overlook the faux outrage from Liberals over the very mention of possible changes to OAS... It seems, many if not all changes are acceptable to many as long as it's the liberals making them. wub go figure

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Snoop%2Balready%2Bhere%2Bthanks%2BLiberals/6173295/story.html

But lost in all the insults and the predictable antics in the House, is the inconvenient fact - particularly for the Liberal Party of Canada - that while in government not too long ago, it lifted the longtime ban on this country's super-secret electronic eavesdropping agency, the Communications Security Establishment (CSE), to intercept Canadians' electronic, Internet and cellular traffic.

When and how did this lawful invasion of Canadians' privacy come into force?

Well, shortly after the 9/11 terrorist attacks, Jean Chrétien's government introduced the Canadian Anti-terrorism Act, which included a provision that in large measure enshrined into law the potentially pervasive spying on Canadians that Liberal interim leader Bob Rae is now railing against.

-

The Liberal party's hypocrisy is as predictable as it is instructive.

[Guest Manny]

The whole response to 9/11 was a knee-jerk overreaction. Yes liberty was attacked that day, and the attackers were within us. We did it to ourselves. And now the real problem is, how to un-do it. It's much easier to implement a security policy than it is to remove it.

[waldo]

shorter scribblet: "Oh! Look! A Squirrel!"

[cybercoma]

Why would Bob Rae be bound by decisions made by Jean Chretien following 9/11? What's the statue of limitation on party policies? If the party took a stance in the 1980s, should they hold to that today? I can't stand the Liberal Party, but saying they're hypocritical because policies they had in the wake of 9/11 are not the same policies they have 11 years and 4 leaders later is nonsense.

Edited February 18, 2012 by cybercoma

[scribblet]

Policy or law, if it's law they have to follow it or repeal it.

[capricorn]

I truly now think it was the opposition forcing their ideas on this government that made Canada a much better country over the last years.

Isn't that usually the case with all minority parliaments regardless of which party is in government?

[BubberMiley]

Toews wrote a lovely, if rambling, letter to his constituents, trying to gain sympathy by repeatedly referencing "criminal acts" against him but providing no details as to what those attacks were. Apparently they didn't involve the vikileaks info, because he acknowledges in the letter that all that info was already public.

I'm not sure if the Yeats quote made him seem to be of perfectly of sound mind, however. Particularly when the "woman's kiss" is the much younger babysitter and not his wife.

An Open Letter To My Constituents

Dear Constituents,

Over the last few weeks I have been subjected to an extensive personal attack by my political opponents as a result of certain legislation that I have introduced in the House of Commons on behalf of the federal government.

These attacks, which have included criminal acts and threats of criminal acts against me and my family, have been referred to the police for investigation. Any further criminal activity or threats of criminal activity against me or my family will also be referred to the police.

As my constituents I would like you to know that the personal attacks, criminal acts and threats of future criminal acts against me will not dissuade me from carrying out my responsibilities as an elected Member of the House of Commons and as the Minister of Public Safety for Canada.

The personal attacks against me are based on allegations contained in affidavits filed in the course of my divorce proceedings a number of years ago. The affidavits are on the public record and filed with the Manitoba Court of Queen's Bench. These allegations have been the basis of prior personal attacks against me and I assume they will form the basis of attacks against me for many years to come.

I want you to know that I have never responded publicly to the specific allegations made in these affidavits nor will I ever do so. I will be fully accountable for any responsibility that I bear for the breakdown of my previous marriage but that accountability is not something I owe to the public generally or to my political opponents in particular. It is a personal accountability which I cannot avoid nor do I seek to do so.

However, I do want you to know that I have a spouse and a young son who I love more than life itself.

The other night, while I was reading my favourite poet, William Butler Yeats, I came across these lines:

'Yet they that know all things but know That all this life can give us is A child's laughter, a woman's kiss.''

No words could ever describe my love for my young son and my spouse any better. What a fortunate man I am to have them in my life.

Sincerely,

Vic Toews

MP for Provencher

Edited February 18, 2012 by BubberMiley

[olpfan1]

Got this on my twitter

“@CBCAlerts: Toews surprised by content of online surveillance bill . Public Security minister says bill can be amended. #cdnpoli”

surprised?! yeah right

[dre]

Toews is backtracking on that now - but you guys do know that the bill is going back to committee for discussion and likely amendments before going to second reading. Mr. Harper actually did that a few days ago.

The thing is the only way it would be a good bill is if it was ammended to mean the EXACT OPPOSITE of what it does now.

[dre]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/02/18/pol-thehouse-vic-toews.html

[punked]

So now we know. We are run by a government that passes bills they not only don't read, but that they don't even know what is in them. I wonder what corporate lobby group wrote this one for our government? It just keeps getting worse for democracy.

Some people keep saying this is the Reform side of the CPC wing. I can firmly say I know plenty of former Reform members, heck some of them serve on my NDP ridding association. These bills aren't coming from the Reform wing. The Reformer respected openness, transparency, and civil liberties at least. This is coming out of the bought and paid for corporate wing of the party which is all that party is now. True conservatives of this board you would be better off splitting off and keeping this party honest. I never agreed with the Reform people but at least they had core beliefs, what do you have now? Power with no principle.

Edited February 18, 2012 by punked

[dre]

So now we know. We are run by a government that passes bills they not only don't read, but that they don't even know what is in them. I wonder what corporate lobby group wrote this one for our government? It just keeps getting worse for democracy.

The problem is the gutless response by citizens. Both this bill in its entirety and the suggestion that those that oppose it on the side of pedophiles should be seen by every single one of us as fighting words.

We are so apathetic about our basic rights, that theres no way we will have them for long.

Some people keep saying this is the Reform side of the CPC wing.

These things are simply core principles of the CPC... The idea that the government IS entitled to privacy and secrecy but people are not, especially when law and order can be invoked.

Edited February 18, 2012 by dre

[olpfan1]

So now we know. We are run by a government that passes bills they not only don't read, but that they don't even know what is in them. I wonder what corporate lobby group wrote this one for our government? It just keeps getting worse for democracy.

our politicians are now just like american politicians in every way

[punked]

The problem is the gutless response by citizens. Both this bill in its entirety and the suggestion that those that oppose it on the side of pedophiles should be seen by every single one of us as fighting words.

We are so apathetic about our basic rights, that theres no way we will have them for long.

Problem for the CPC is the average Canadian can be involved on the Internet. Going after the Internet is political suicide in any country and these people who don't understand the Internet do not understand how much of a third rail issue it is. Even my father who I have to turn the computer on for and do the typing for him, who is a gun loving Conservative is angry about this.

[olpfan1]

The problem is the gutless response by citizens. Both this bill in its entirety and the suggestion that those that oppose it on the side of pedophiles should be seen by every single one of us as fighting words.

We are so apathetic about our basic rights, that theres no way we will have them for long.

gutless response? were you imagining riots?

#TellVicEverything was the apropriate response here

[olpfan1]

Problem for the CPC is the average Canadian can be involved on the Internet. Going after the Internet is political suicide in any country and these people who don't understand the Internet do not understand how much of a third rail issue it is. Even my father who I have to turn the computer on for and do the typing for him, who is a gun loving Conservative is angry about this.

Canada use the internet more than any other country in the world i read

[punked]

our politicians are now just like american politicians in every way

It is a sad day for what was a proud democracy. Seriously I don't ask my MPs to read every bill I do ask them to hire someone competent to read them and inform what they are voting on. They can't even do this seriously? THAT IS YOUR JOB. These people don't deserve the office they hold.

[punked]

Canada use the internet more than any other country in the world i read

That is a true statistic, but I think I say with out hesitation the Conservatives as a party use it less then independents and members of other parties. So they actually understand less, and do not understand the public likes the Internet the way it is. If they wanted to do anything about problems with the Internet they would invest to speed it up and carry more bandwidth that is what Canadians want not this. This is a waste of time and money.