Sa'adoni Posted February 13, 2012 Report Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) I was just going through the public safety website and I noticed that the fee that was increased from $50 to $150 in 2010 is being put up to $631 in 10 days. I'm not sure why $631 was chosen. None the less, this looks sort of expensive for the average excon. Is this just to make poor excons unable to get a pardon while rich excons can walk away with having no record. A rich con artist (how did they get that $631), can clear their record but a pickpocket would be forced to steal 10 or more wallets. Price just seems awfully high for most people, am I wrong? Why even have pardons? Either just do it automatically the paper work just seems a way of exterting political control on the process. I would think pardon requests are going down? Is there something about the old system that wasn't working what is the percent of recidivism among pardoned excons? Do they not pay taxes too, its not like they wern't forced to pay for other peoples prisons and gaurds. Makes more sense just to remove the pardon process completely and stop hiding information and come down to earth on how common place crime is in Canada. Why hide peoples past crimes? How is that protecting society? Crime is everywhere. Why let people hide the fact they were charge. If the job is so sensitive you don't want to hire a criminal,why not let them know they were a criminal. This pardon system is nonsense. It is disgusting the government is turning this into a social class issue of economic capacity. Shame on the government for abbetting fraud and hiding public safety risks and economic risks from the public. Why are they so stupid as to endanger the public like that? There is no way to judge the rehabilitation of someone other than them not breaking the law. People shouldn't have a way to pay their way out of the truth of their life. Even if the truth is lies by the government. People should have the right to state their statement of facts on their record, and in the event of false information people framing or rigging others can come out with the truth or burn in hell. Life is short forget the money games. Edited February 13, 2012 by Sa'adoni Quote
olpfan1 Posted February 13, 2012 Report Posted February 13, 2012 Wow a jump from 150 to 631... Pardon gouging! Quote
waldo Posted February 13, 2012 Report Posted February 13, 2012 from the official Public Safety Canada release: Vic Toews, Minister of Public Safety:“Increasing the user fee contributes to the long-term sustainability of the Parole Board of Canada’s pardons program, which cannot be maintained at the current cost,” said Minister Toews. “Currently, taxpayers bear the brunt of the cost for criminals requesting pardons. This is unacceptable. Pardons are not a right. That is why we are proposing that persons convicted of criminal offences pay their own way when applying for a pardon.” The proposed $631 fee is based on an extensive costing exercise conducted by the Parole Board of Canada. The fee increase responds to workload increases and processing costs, and aims to make the system more efficient and sustainable moving forward. As a first step, the government increased the administrative fee to apply for a pardon from $50 to $150 in December 2010. This was the first time the pardon user fee was increased since its introduction more than 15 years ago. “The new fee will ensure the pardons program can continue to help individuals reintegrate into the community when they have demonstrated they have rehabilitated,” said Minister Toews. The Parole Board of Canada undertook public consultations on the proposed new user fee in February 2011, as required by the User Fees Act. of course, what the official release doesn't state is that: Conservatives Going Ahead Despite Criticism The Conservative government is pressing ahead with a plan to quadruple pardon applications fees despite the fact that 99 per cent of the respondents in its own consultations said it was a terrible idea — and an independent panel struck to review the decision sided against the Tories.. . Even an Independent Advisory Panel — that included a member of the Parole Board — struck to review complaints about the Conservative government’s proposal said it also feared the proposed fee hike would have a punitive effect on many applicants. “Regardless of their merits or good behavour, those who do not have the means to pay such an amount would be doubly penalized,” their June report, which was tabled in Parliament this week, states. The panel recommended the government maintain the $150 fee and give the Parole Board more resources to function properly. Quote
RNG Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 They did the crime. There are consequences. And there are significant costs given the extraordinary inefficiency of governments. Quote The government can't give anything to anyone without having first taken it from someone else.
Bonam Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) $631 is pocket change to get rid of a criminal record. I'd certainly rather a program like this, which clears people's criminal records, should be paid for by the criminals that are benefiting from it, rather than being subsidized by taxpayers. In fact, the government should probably raise the price further and build in some profit, which they could use to help fund other parts of the justice system. Edited February 15, 2012 by Bonam Quote
Sa'adoni Posted February 15, 2012 Author Report Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) They did the crime. There are consequences. And there are significant costs given the extraordinary inefficiency of governments. Some might have done the crime, part of the problem with the justice system is that both cops and lawyers lie. People get framed, and the people that are accused from time to time are actually the victims. The economic cost is disproporiate with some crimes, example is shoplifting $10 of merchandise deserving of $631+ of fees? What about someone who got into a fist fight with someone? Likewise how should someones record of murder be erased because they paid $631 the proposal is nonsense. Edited February 15, 2012 by Sa'adoni Quote
Sa'adoni Posted February 15, 2012 Author Report Posted February 15, 2012 Some might have done the crime, part of the problem with the justice system is that both cops and lawyers lie. People get framed, and the people that are accused from time to time are actually the victims. The economic cost is disproporiate with some crimes, example is shoplifting $10 of merchandise deserving of $631+ of fees? What about someone who got into a fist fight with someone? Likewise how should someones record of murder be erased because they paid $631 the proposal is nonsense. Take for instance 2 in 3 child sexual charges do not lead to convictions. How is it the cops press charges? What about that other 33% how do we know there arn't innocent people in that 33% or guilty peole in the 66%? Quote
Argus Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 $631 is pocket change to get rid of a criminal record. I'd tend to agree but at the same time it's hard to say just exactly what a few clerks in the government are doing and for how long that it really costs $631 to achieve it. Methinks this is akin to the dealer administration fee you have to pay when buying a car. If it was really to pay for administration the dealers must pay their clerks about $350hr. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
dre Posted February 16, 2012 Report Posted February 16, 2012 Makes good sense to me. The government is currently unable to fund its day to day operations, and governments are terrified or raising taxes as well. In the last few decades we have seen a trend of all kinds of "fee collecting" but really its just hidden taxation. In this case it makes particularly good sense because they are taxing an unpopular group of people and most people arent likely to defend them. I just paid about 70 bux to renew my drivers license. In return for that I got a row in a government database (that took the clerk about 3 minutes to make), and a little plastic thing that you can produce in the private sector for about 50 cents. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Sa'adoni Posted February 16, 2012 Author Report Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) I'd tend to agree but at the same time it's hard to say just exactly what a few clerks in the government are doing and for how long that it really costs $631 to achieve it. Methinks this is akin to the dealer administration fee you have to pay when buying a car. If it was really to pay for administration the dealers must pay their clerks about $350hr. PI's are $75/hour as a flat rate in the US.. surely they could contract police or propose a bill or open an investigation for each warrant. Cops are expensive. PI's cost less as far as I'm aware. http://downeastinvestigationsandsecurity.ca/our-rates/ Edited February 16, 2012 by Sa'adoni Quote
August1991 Posted February 18, 2012 Report Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) I'd tend to agree but at the same time it's hard to say just exactly what a few clerks in the government are doing and for how long that it really costs $631 to achieve it.Methinks this is akin to the dealer administration fee you have to pay when buying a car. If it was really to pay for administration the dealers must pay their clerks about $350hr. It is terrifying to think that these numbers are based on a "cost recovery" basis. IOW, it really costs the government $631 (in salaries/benefits/leasing space/fee collection etc) to record a criminal pardon.This says far more about how government bureaucrats are organized and "do business" than about the common sense of pardons or our criminal justice system. ---- The simple fact is that modern, Western government administration has become Soviet. It is dysfunctional and no longer works. A Keynesian stimulus package may make sense now but we are doing worse than burying money in the ground, or paying people to dig holes and then refill them. With modern government, we are paying people to dig trenches across our highways. Edited February 18, 2012 by August1991 Quote
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