Iran

[Jerry J. Fortin]

As I was reading the news. I found several articles about Iran/ Perhaps the most troubling was an article about how the price of a barrel of oil going up to 120-150 dollars. The article claimed that it was in response to the EU community and their latest round of sanctions. Iran intends to embargo any oil headed to the EU.

Any ideas where all this is going folks? I must admit I don't have a clue about where this issue is going.

[cybercoma]

It's leading towards the United States dropping bunker busters all over their country and installing a brutal dictator that will open up their markets to them.

[Guest Derek L]

It's leading towards the United States dropping bunker busters all over their country and installing a brutal dictator that will open up their markets to them.

You haven’t read the script obviously…….Israel bombs a research site, Iran sinks an oil tanker(s) in the gulf, A United States led force destroys the Iranian military over the course of several weeks, terror attacks increase in Israel, The United States taps their strategic petroleum reserve to help counter the rise in price of oil, Iranian dissidents, aided by Western airpower overthrow the Theocracy in Iran within three months….Pakistan, Syria and Saudi Arabia are put on notice…

[cybercoma]

lolz @ Saudi Arabia being put on notice.

[cybercoma]

Here's what I want to know. Why is Iran such a threat with their imaginary nuclear armaments, when the religious zealots in Pakistan already have them? You don't see anyone really giving much attention there.

[Guest Derek L]

Here's what I want to know. Why is Iran such a threat with their imaginary nuclear armaments, when the religious zealots in Pakistan already have them? You don't see anyone really giving much attention there.

The religious wing nuts in Pakistan don’t have them……The Military backed junta does……If the nutters did, there’d already have been a war with India. Also, the US/NATO has required the “help” of the Pakistani Government throughout the Afghan campaign, which is made evident by the West ignoring until late, Pakistanis “transgressions”……..Once we no longer need their help, they become India’s problem.

[cybercoma]

Caplan this weekend:

The proposition that the world does not have to demand denuclearization by Russia, China, North Korea – North Korea, for heaven’s sakes! – India, Israel, Britain, France and the U.S., but demands it from Iran, is beyond comprehension. Imagine your reaction if you were an Iranian, even an anti-government Iranian.

Read the full article here: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/second-reading/gerald-caplan/harper-and-the-us-are-wrong-on-the-iran-threat/article2317799/page1/

[Guest Derek L]

Caplan this weekend:

Gerald Caplan....The NDP guy?

As was mentioned (By Wild Bill) in another thread, one of several hurdles holding the NDP back from becoming “Canada’s New Labour Party” is their lacking in grasping the true real world realities…Obama and Blair “got it”.

[Scotty]

Caplan this weekend:

Read it. I find it curious that he gave no alternatives, no ideas or opinions on what we ought to do. I was impressed by those he said were opposed to military action, but curious again that he gave no direct quotes from any of them. So I looked up a couple. I believe Caplan seriously overstates their opposition to military action. In one case it was merely that they didn't believe Israel itself had the ability to destroy Iran's nuclear facilities. In a second case, he believed the time was not yet right, not that the time was not coming.

[Scotty]

Here's what I want to know. Why is Iran such a threat with their imaginary nuclear armaments, when the religious zealots in Pakistan already have them? You don't see anyone really giving much attention there.

I don't think anyone is happy about Pakistan having them. But Pakistan's government is not made up of religious wackos, and they have not made any efforts at extending their influence abroad the way Iran has. In particular, they haven't named themselves as the deadly enemies of a nation which don't even border them. Their nukes are all aimed at India, and that is their focus. Iran has made Israel into an obsession over the past couple of decades, and at least one former president openly declared that the moment Iran gets a nuclear bomb it must use it on Israel.

That president lot to Ahmadinejad in the last election.

He was considered the moderate, btw.

[Guest Peeves]

Here's what I want to know. Why is Iran such a threat with their imaginary nuclear armaments, when the religious zealots in Pakistan already have them? You don't see anyone really giving much attention there.

Obviously the Iranian rhetoric over a few decades suggesting they would use a nuke might be one reason.

[cybercoma]

North Korea and Pakistan haven't used similar rhetoric?

And contrary to the Iranian rhetoric, Israel and the United States have actually launched attacks against others pre-emptively over the last decade.

Iran is actually less a threat to Israel, than Israel is to Iran. However, we can't really see things that way in the West.

Caplan is right. This increased rhetoric towards Iran is insane. They're not any more a threat than North Korea or Pakistan, but we don't very well talk about immediately needing to disarm them. We're doing nothing more than giving Iran an excuse to go on the offensive, daring them even. Unless you're one of those posters that don't think actions have consequences.

[Scotty]

North Korea and Pakistan haven't used similar rhetoric?

North Korea is all rhetoric, and I'm sure there have been any number of considerations given to bombing hell out of them in the past.

And contrary to the Iranian rhetoric, Israel and the United States have actually launched attacks against others pre-emptively over the last decade.

So what? You can't attack something you have no ability to attack. You think the Iranians would have been as restrained if they had the power to attack Israel?

Iran is actually less a threat to Israel, than Israel is to Iran. However, we can't really see things that way in the West.

Maybe you could ask yourself why Israel would even be a threat to Iran. They don't even share borders. Why would Israel even care about Iran? You don't have to have much knowledge of the middle east to know exactly who the instigator is in the hostile relationship between those two.

Caplan is right.

Caplan apparently studied under the Nevill Chamberlain school of Peace In Our Time.

[Guest Derek L]

North Korea and Pakistan haven't used similar rhetoric?

North Korea uses more than just rhetoric………They fling Taepodongs over Japan every couple of years……..As for Pakistan, they are checked by India……For the last several decades, as India leaned towards being a Soviet client state, Pakistan garnered much needed support from the West (Namely the United Kingdom)………As India strengthened relations and gradually moved towards the Western orbit, Pakistan’s utility has waned for the West……..They now are gravitating towards the Chinese for the coming long game.

[Guest Derek L]

And contrary to the Iranian rhetoric, Israel and the United States have actually launched attacks against others pre-emptively over the last decade.

Iran is actually less a threat to Israel, than Israel is to Iran. However, we can't really see things that way in the West.

Caplan is right. This increased rhetoric towards Iran is insane. They're not any more a threat than North Korea or Pakistan, but we don't very well talk about immediately needing to disarm them. We're doing nothing more than giving Iran an excuse to go on the offensive, daring them even. Unless you're one of those posters that don't think actions have consequences.

As has been stated many times, nations don’t have friends, but interests………Our interests as Canadians, are also shared by the “proverbial West”, in that we value a secure source of energy, that in turn fuels our collective economies which allow for our standard of living………Any potential threat to such interests, is a direct threat to our way of life………I hope Iran feels threatened.

[GostHacked]

lolz @ Saudi Arabia being put on notice.

It's going to happen one day. The only difference between Saudi Arabia and Iran in a sense is that the west gets LOTS of oil from Saudi Arabia. The regimes, if you will, are similar, but yet the west has their lips so far past the Saudi sphincter that as long as we are getting the oil, then they can do wtf they want while other countries are invaded for oil because they won't give it to them or want to trade in other markets, regardless of the brutal similarities between the regimes.

If Iran is invaded, and made to shoot first, in which the USA/NATO is really trying to instigate just to lay the boots to them, then Russia and China won't want to interfere. So this is where they make fake an attack, making it look like Iran did it. If the USA/NATO made the first strike, China and Russia would back Iran in an instant, and then you have a real possibility of a 3rd world war.

So, if Iran shoots first, then it will make it easier to start the pressure on Saudi Arabia without much recourse from the rest of the world.

[Guest Derek L]

It's going to happen one day. The only difference between Saudi Arabia and Iran in a sense is that the west gets LOTS of oil from Saudi Arabia. The regimes, if you will, are similar, but yet the west has their lips so far past the Saudi sphincter that as long as we are getting the oil, then they can do wtf they want while other countries are invaded for oil because they won't give it to them or want to trade in other markets, regardless of the brutal similarities between the regimes.

If Iran is invaded, and made to shoot first, in which the USA/NATO is really trying to instigate just to lay the boots to them, then Russia and China won't want to interfere. So this is where they make fake an attack, making it look like Iran did it. If the USA/NATO made the first strike, China and Russia would back Iran in an instant, and then you have a real possibility of a 3rd world war.

So, if Iran shoots first, then it will make it easier to start the pressure on Saudi Arabia without much recourse from the rest of the world.

Both Russian and Chinese oil companies have had “contract” disputes with the Iranian government over the last ~6 months, disputes that effectively shut both nations out………They won’t, under any circumstance, back the current Iranian regime with any form of military intervention……Iran has truly turned itself into a international pariah.

[Guest Derek L]

For reference:

Pricing Dispute Threatens Iran's Oil Exports to China

Iran excludes Gazprom from Azar oil project

[eyeball]

As I was reading the news. I found several articles about Iran/ Perhaps the most troubling was an article about how the price of a barrel of oil going up to 120-150 dollars. The article claimed that it was in response to the EU community and their latest round of sanctions. Iran intends to embargo any oil headed to the EU.

Any ideas where all this is going folks? I must admit I don't have a clue about where this issue is going.

The income gap will surely grow so wherever it's going it's still on course.

[cybercoma]

So what? You can't attack something you have no ability to attack. You think the Iranians would have been as restrained if they had the power to attack Israel?

They have a standing military. How can you even say they don't have the ability to attack?

Maybe you could ask yourself why Israel would even be a threat to Iran. They don't even share borders. Why would Israel even care about Iran? You don't have to have much knowledge of the middle east to know exactly who the instigator is in the hostile relationship between those two.

Here's the pre-emptive defense argument, which is logically unsound. Israel assassinated one of Iran's scientists. They're not even being the least bit secretive about it. This is an attack on Iran. Israel has already begun the offensive. There has been no such offensive on the part of Iran, ever. Just rhetoric. Politicians pandering to their base.

Caplan apparently studied under the Nevill Chamberlain school of Peace In Our Time.

Who cares if he studied at CompuCollege? I don't give a crap about where he studied or who he is as a person. He's drawing attention to a very important point. Why is Iran a threat when they've never attacked anyone and there are many other nations that are just as "insane" and actually have nukes today? I don't expect a serious answer to the question, but it's worth thinking about.

[Guest Derek L]

The income gap will surely grow so wherever it's going it's still on course.

Easy solution……Buy defence stocks………Ask yourself, when Western Governments are announcing cutbacks to their militaries, why are defence stock prices still rising.

Advice that could be worth thousands to you……You’re welcome in advance.

[cybercoma]

As has been stated many times, nations don’t have friends, but interests………Our interests as Canadians, are also shared by the “proverbial West”, in that we value a secure source of energy, that in turn fuels our collective economies which allow for our standard of living………Any potential threat to such interests, is a direct threat to our way of life………I hope Iran feels threatened.

So you think it's perfectly acceptable for Russia to invade Canada for clean water?

[eyeball]

Here's what I want to know. Why is Iran such a threat with their imaginary nuclear armaments, when the religious zealots in Pakistan already have them? You don't see anyone really giving much attention there.

That's because there's no wealth that can be concentrated and piped/tanked/exported out. I suppose there will come a day when the race to the bottom makes their labour force look attractive. For all I know there's already some Chinese factory manager somewhere holding the threat of moving to Pakistan over his lazy greedy workers.

[Guest Derek L]

They have a standing military. How can you even say they don't have the ability to attack?

Iran doesn’t have (or never did) the ability, in the conventional sense, to assert power on Israel, hence their reliance on asymmetric ways and means.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Derek L

[Guest Derek L]

So you think it's perfectly acceptable for Russia to invade Canada for clean water?

If I were Russian, you bet.