RonFournier Posted January 25, 2012 Report Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) The Canadian Labour Congress just published a study on the effects of the corporate tax cuts policy in Canada. Launched by the Liberals and continued by the Cons, these policies saw the corporate tax rates go from 30% in 2000 to 15% in 2011 (which costs the federal government aprox. 2 billion$/1%). Oh surprise, it seems like companies distribute their savings to shareholders instead of investing into the economy. What did Corporate Tax Cuts Deliver? - Canadian Labour Congress Neoliberals are either blind or in bad faith because it looks like they want to impose a larger fiscal burden on the working class that contributes concretely to economy while rich shareholders get even richer without contributing in any way to the economy. Edited January 25, 2012 by RonFournier Quote
Shady Posted January 25, 2012 Report Posted January 25, 2012 companies distribute their savings to shareholders Yep, shareholders. You know, people invested in their companies, like pension plans and RSPs. Quote
RonFournier Posted January 25, 2012 Author Report Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Yep, shareholders. You know, people invested in their companies, like pension plans and RSPs. The thing is, these tax cuts were designed so the savings made by the companies would be re-invested into the economy, it's the fundamental idea behind neoliberalist policies like this. Edited January 25, 2012 by RonFournier Quote
Shady Posted January 25, 2012 Report Posted January 25, 2012 The thing is, these tax cuts were designed so the savings made by the companies would be re-invested into the economy, it's the fondamental idea behind neoliberalist policies like this. So you're saying that no company has re-invested into the economy? No company has expaned at all? That's complete nonsense. Anyways, in some cases, companies used their savings to better compete globally, and withstand the economic downturn over the past few years. Quote
Shady Posted January 25, 2012 Report Posted January 25, 2012 The thing is, these tax cuts were designed so the savings made by the companies would be re-invested into the economy Nope. These tax cuts were designed to make Canada more attractive to do business and competetive globally. Quote
CPCFTW Posted January 25, 2012 Report Posted January 25, 2012 The thing is, these tax cuts were designed so the savings made by the companies would be re-invested into the economy, it's the fundamental idea behind neoliberalist policies like this. Better investor returns = more investment = more capital to expand the economy... Come on guys.. it isn't that complicated. Quote
RonFournier Posted January 25, 2012 Author Report Posted January 25, 2012 So you're saying that no company has re-invested into the economy? No company has expaned at all? That's complete nonsense. Anyways, in some cases, companies used their savings to better compete globally, and withstand the economic downturn over the past few years. I suggest you read the study posted in the original post before you put words in my mouth. There's no black and white, but the study shows that our corporate tax breaks policy is a failure. Quote
CPCFTW Posted January 25, 2012 Report Posted January 25, 2012 Yep, shareholders. You know, people invested in their companies, like pension plans and RSPs. It never ceases to amaze me how derisive of investors the left is. Quote
Shady Posted January 25, 2012 Report Posted January 25, 2012 It never ceases to amaze me how derisive of investors the left is. Exactly. Or their ignorance of how an economy actually works. Quote
punked Posted January 25, 2012 Report Posted January 25, 2012 Exactly. Or their ignorance of how an economy actually works. Yah it has worked so well over the last few years with recessions and 1 or 2% growth. Quote
RonFournier Posted January 25, 2012 Author Report Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Exactly. Or their ignorance of how an economy actually works. But the investors only interest is making more money and not developing an healthy economy, as illustrated by the Subprime scandal. It's the real workers who then have to pay the bill. Are you calling Joseph Stiglitz an ignorant? My bad you probably ignore who he is. Edited January 25, 2012 by RonFournier Quote
cybercoma Posted January 25, 2012 Report Posted January 25, 2012 So you're saying that no company has re-invested Do you genuinely misunderstand things this much or is it all an act? Quote
cybercoma Posted January 25, 2012 Report Posted January 25, 2012 Exactly. Or their ignorance of how an economy actually works. The only ignorance here is yours. The idea behind the tax breaks isn't to distribute it to investors as savings. Do you even understand the purpose behind those tax cuts? You need to get people to spend in a weak economy. Piling the money away does not help. The problem here is that the money was not intended to be accumulated as savings (for pensions or RRSPs or whatever...). It was meant to rebuild the economy. It was meant to give businesses room to hire employees, build infrastructure, etc. Except, they don't do that when people don't buy. This should be obvious. The "stimulus" spending ought to be putting money in the average person's hands because they will spend it. Quote
RonFournier Posted January 25, 2012 Author Report Posted January 25, 2012 "Data (...) show that lower corporate taxes in and of themselves have mainly resulted in higher dividend payouts to shareholders and the accumulation of mainly financial assets, not an increase in capital stock and other investments which boost productivity and sustain and create good jobs. Government revenues have taken a big hit, without the expected upside of a stronger and more productive economy. The winners have been those who own company shares, notably Canada’s highly paid CEOs and other members of the top 1%." -Canadian Labour Congress Quote
fellowtraveller Posted January 25, 2012 Report Posted January 25, 2012 Every industry in Canada should be nationalized and every adult should be paid the same. They can start with buying my business. I'll give the govt reasonable terms, training and Air Miles. Quote The government should do something.
cybercoma Posted January 25, 2012 Report Posted January 25, 2012 Every industry in Canada should be nationalized and every adult should be paid the same. They can start with buying my business. I'll give the govt reasonable terms, training and Air Miles. That's a pretty stupid idea. How about they just pay their taxes like everyone else, instead of expecting the taxpayers to pay them for jobs. Quote
RonFournier Posted January 25, 2012 Author Report Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Nothing exists between communism and neoliberalism. Thanks for your input traveller. Edited January 25, 2012 by RonFournier Quote
Jack Weber Posted January 25, 2012 Report Posted January 25, 2012 The thing is, these tax cuts were designed so the savings made by the companies would be re-invested into the economy, it's the fundamental idea behind neoliberalist policies like this. Well...That's the selling point,or the hook to get people to go along with these policies.The problem is that neo-liberals are really just marauding free marketeers who simply want wealth redistributed upwards.They use words like "personal freedom" to get people to go along with these things that,if given a 2nd thought,no one would ever go for because it's akin to a chicken voting for Col. Sanders. The fact of the matter is that these tax breaks for these "people" have lead to wage stagnation through direct job loss,or fear of job loss.Our standard of living dropping,because even with all those wonderful tax breaks corporations have lobbied for (and received),they still ship those jobs overseas to low wage'low standard of living jurisdictions. This is fallacy of the economic Darwinian belief system that is at the heart of Neo-Liberalism.And it's also why it's fairly obvious that there is a segment of the population of this country (and others in the West) that is simply unwilling to pay its fair share in society anymore because we've allowed these "people" to wield too much power in society. Tax breaks for "people" who create less and less jobs for less and less money for shorter and shorter periods of time...And then they leave anyway... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Jack Weber Posted January 25, 2012 Report Posted January 25, 2012 Yep, shareholders. You know, people invested in their companies, like pension plans and RSPs. Like the pension plans that companies don't want to be responsible for anymore??? Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Shady Posted January 25, 2012 Report Posted January 25, 2012 Like the pension plans that companies don't want to be responsible for anymore??? Complete nonsense. Companies are, and continue to be responsible for defined contribution pension plans. They're just not eager to get involved in the defined benefit pyramid schemes. Quote
Jack Weber Posted January 25, 2012 Report Posted January 25, 2012 Complete nonsense. Companies are, and continue to be responsible for defined contribution pension plans. They're just not eager to get involved in the defined benefit pyramid schemes. Another "Complete Nonsense"... Spectacular,Professor!!! And they seem quite content to starve out their employees to prove that "point"! Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Shady Posted January 25, 2012 Report Posted January 25, 2012 And they seem quite content to starve out their employees to prove that "point"! More nonsense. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. I have friends and family members that work for companies that match dollar for dollar their employees retirement savings, and pension plans. Mine does as well. Quote
Jack Weber Posted January 25, 2012 Report Posted January 25, 2012 More nonsense. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. I have friends and family members that work for companies that match dollar for dollar their employees retirement savings, and pension plans. Mine does as well. You're talking about an undefined pension plan that's basocally an RRSP plan using different mutual funds... And I do know what I'm talking about... See the US Steel Lock Out'S at Nanticoke and Hamilton over the last two and a half years and the reason for it... Are you sure you want to go down this road,Professor,seeing as we have seen your labour contract negotiations knowledge and prowess in full effect? Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
August1991 Posted January 26, 2012 Report Posted January 26, 2012 The only ignorance here is yours. The idea behind the tax breaks isn't to distribute it to investors as savings. I disagree. The logic of corporate tax cuts is precisely that: to create an incentive so that people save more and invest. If the shareholders receive more in dividends or income, then I would say that the cuts were a success. People now have an incentive to save and invest rather than consume. And incidentally, if you're worried that lower consumption is bad for the economy, investment expenditures are certainly as good as consumption when it comes to aggregate demand. Quote
cybercoma Posted January 26, 2012 Report Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) So in order to get the economy going again, the government wants to create incentives for people to hang on to their money? Surely you can't be serious. As the opening article said... it depends on the investments. And it's not the ones that are being made. Edited January 26, 2012 by cybercoma Quote
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