bush_cheney2004 Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 ...I'm not sure you even know what you're looking at on that page. It seems like you read the absurd claims made by the blogger, who incorrectly analyzed the data, and you ran with it. Correct...you aren't sure of anything here...just guessing. I made the statement based on a document from the Library of Parliament for an earlier period. http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/publications/suicidesincanada.htm Canada's suicide rate has grown much faster than its population...must be all that frickin' hapiness..or depression over never winning The Cup since 1993. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 This assertion does not correlate with the spike in suicides for Nunavut, where Catholicism, Anglicanism and Pentecostalism are practiced. Youll always have areas that buck the trend but that assertion works pretty nicely for the whole world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 You're jumping all over the place here. Your OP was discussing data from 2000-2007. In that period Canada's suicide rate declined, while the rate in the US increased. I've not denied that Canada's suicide rate is higher and that seems to be because there is a lower level of religiosity in Canada according to the study I cited (and others I'm sure). The long-gun registry went into effect in 1996. So it seems that, given your parliamentary statistics from the 90s, this added layer to our gun-control package did indeed help reduce the suicide rate, even if people did trade shooting themselves for hanging. The missing piece to determine whether it has been truly effective or not is the attempted suicide rate versus the completed suicides. Get back to me when you have all the information necessary to make your claims, which according to the information you have given, are actually entirely wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) Youll always have areas that buck the trend but that assertion works pretty nicely for the whole world. Except when it doesn't, as in the case of Lithuania, with one of the highest rates of all. Fully 79% of Lithuanians are Roman Catholics according to Wiki entry. Edited January 9, 2012 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 You're jumping all over the place here. Your OP was discussing data from 2000-2007. In that period Canada's suicide rate declined, while the rate in the US increased. I've not denied that Canada's suicide rate is higher and that seems to be because there is a lower level of religiosity in Canada according to the study I cited (and others I'm sure). The long-gun registry went into effect in 1996. So it seems that, given your parliamentary statistics from the 90s, this added layer to our gun-control package did indeed help reduce the suicide rate, even if people did trade shooting themselves for hanging. The missing piece to determine whether it has been truly effective or not is the attempted suicide rate versus the completed suicides. Get back to me when you have all the information necessary to make your claims, which according to the information you have given, are actually entirely wrong. Well... youre expecting him to make a salient point, but he just wants to troll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) You're jumping all over the place here. Your OP was discussing data from 2000-2007. In that period Canada's suicide rate declined, while the rate in the US increased. That was your erroneous conclusion...I never limited the domain to 2000-2007. I've not denied that Canada's suicide rate is higher and that seems to be because there is a lower level of religiosity in Canada according to the study I cited (and others I'm sure). The long-gun registry went into effect in 1996. There were other forms of gun control before the laughable long-gun registry. So it seems that, given your parliamentary statistics from the 90s, this added layer to our gun-control package did indeed help reduce the suicide rate, even if people did trade shooting themselves for hanging. They are not my statistics....they are Canada's. Clearly non firearms related suicides increased. The missing piece to determine whether it has been truly effective or not is the attempted suicide rate versus the completed suicides. Get back to me when you have all the information necessary to make your claims, which according to the information you have given, are actually entirely wrong. No...do it yourself....the data are conclusive: Canada's suicide rate has increased since the advent of gun control. The correlation coefficient has yet to be determined. Edited January 9, 2012 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Well... youre expecting him to make a salient point, but he just wants to troll. Trolls have a much lower suicide rate than happy Canadians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 They're not my statistics. I'm pointing to the information that you provided and showing you how your claims are entirely wrong. You then post statistics from a decade earlier trying to say that gun control has increased the suicide rate. However, suicides remained relatively consistent, while the population increased. Gun control laws actually reduced the gun-related deaths as people began hanging themselves instead. The key piece of information you're missing is attempted versus completed in both cases. People tend to fail less frequently with firearms than they do with hanging or "poisoning" deaths. I'm not going to do your research for you. However, the conclusions you've drawn are incorrect given the information you've provided. Your analysis, which you lifted from the blog in the OP (which was only considering 2000-2007 stats), is junk. And you say since the advent of gun-control, but you don't have anything showing a statistically relevant correlation. And was it since the advent of gun control or since the disenchant of religious society? They could have been co-occurring events (they were). Hey maybe global warming increased Canada's suicide rate too. Or perhaps the decrease in the number of pirates caused an increase in Canada's suicide rate. You've proven nothing other than the fact that you're really good at putting together illogical arguments. We already know that though. You don't have to keep proving it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Well... youre expecting him to make a salient point, but he just wants to troll. Thanks. I needed that reminder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) Gun control laws actually reduced the gun-related deaths as people began hanging themselves instead. The key piece of information you're missing is attempted versus completed in both cases. Nonsense....suicides by non-firearms means increased. Stop trying to obfuscate the "salient point". Your analysis, which you lifted from the blog in the OP (which was only considering 2000-2007 stats), is junk. Calling your own Parliament's data junk is your choice. You are in denial. And you say since the advent of gun-control, but you don't have anything showing a statistically relevant correlation. And was it since the advent of gun control or since the disenchant of religious society? Not my purpose here....somebody already tried to make that correlation and Lithuania destroys that stupid idea. They could have been co-occurring events (they were). Hey maybe global warming increased Canada's suicide rate too. Or perhaps the decrease in the number of pirates caused an increase in Canada's suicide rate. You don't have any idea why, but instead want to expend a lot of energy deflecting the very idea of more suicides in Canada by other means than firearms. You've proven nothing other than the fact that you're really good at putting together illogical arguments. We already know that though. You don't have to keep proving it. What argument? Canada has a higher suicide rate than the U.S.A. And it's not because of Jesus! LOL! ....we have guns out the wazoo. Edited January 9, 2012 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 More on this topic for all nations. Those who can't control the urge to deflect criticism of their pet theories and religious biases should not read this.... http://nitawriter.wordpress.com/2007/05/11/suicide-rates-of-the-world/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Nonsense....suicides by non-firearms means increased. Stop trying to obfuscate the "salient point". -1 firearm suicide +1 non-firearm suicide = 0 change Calling your own Parliament's data junk is your choice. You are in denial. Parliament's data is fine. It's your analysis and obviously your reading comprehension that are junk. Not my purpose here....somebody already tried to make that correlation and Lithuania destroys that stupid idea. What's a stupid idea is pointing to an obvious outlier and somehow thinking that this proves some sort of general rule. Lithuania's suicide rate is unusual and a mystery to many. You don't have any idea why, but instead want to expend a lot of energy deflecting the very idea of more suicides in Canada by other means than firearms. You seem to have a tough time understanding the numbers that you provided. That's ok. Get someone to show you how to properly interpret the data then come back. What argument? Canada has a higher suicide rate than the U.S.A. And it's not because of Jesus! LOL! ....we have guns out the wazoo. Canada's suicide rate decreased between 2000 and 2007, while the suicide rate in the United States has been increasing. You need to reconcile that with your theory. ...you have guns out the wazoo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Now for the real fun...obese people have a lower suicide rate? Could this explain the difference between Canada and the US of A? Eat Canada....EAT!!! http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/10/09/us-obese-suicide-idUSTRE5984QT20091009 http://www.pharmacytimes.com/publications/issue/2006/2006-02/2006-02-5228 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 The suicide rate in Quebec skyrocketed during the Quiet Revolution as well. This, as well as the new countries that also appear to have high suicide rates can be explained by what Durkheim called anomic suicide obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 So that's it then? You're going to ignore everyone's criticisms and just keep on with the trolling? Have fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Canada's suicide rate decreased between 2000 and 2007, while the suicide rate in the United States has been increasing. You need to reconcile that with your theory. That's nice....the only problem with your myopic view is that people also committed suicide before that. Sorry peaches.... ...you have guns out the wazoo. Yep...and a lower overall suicide rate in the USA. Praise Jesus! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 So that's it then? You're going to ignore everyone's criticisms and just keep on with the trolling? Have fun. Well gee...don't kill yourself over it. I just presented the links as I found them, from your own country. Maybe you should speak with a counselor. Suicides can be prevented, but not with firearms control!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 That's what I thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Research in the past that compares suicide in Canada to the US found that "Canadians see suicide as being related more to mental illness and as a cry for help.... Are you saying that Canadians have a higher rate of mental illness....gee...that would explain a lot around here. Just sayin'..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 They're not my statistics. I'm pointing to the information that you provided and showing you how your claims are entirely wrong. You then post statistics from a decade earlier trying to say that gun control has increased the suicide rate. However, suicides remained relatively consistent, while the population increased. Gun control laws actually reduced the gun-related deaths as people began hanging themselves instead. The key piece of information you're missing is attempted versus completed in both cases. People tend to fail less frequently with firearms than they do with hanging or "poisoning" deaths. I'm not going to do your research for you. However, the conclusions you've drawn are incorrect given the information you've provided. Your analysis, which you lifted from the blog in the OP (which was only considering 2000-2007 stats), is junk. I quit reading after seeing the referenced short time period. He's tried this same ploy in climate change related threads... it is, of course, the tried-and-true method for anyone who wishes to skew stats. Most certainly, for any results that might favour any one country over another, you can't presume to rely upon trending analysis based upon a ridiculous short-term period, like 6-7 years. of course, once you showed the failure of the 2000-2007 stat analysis, notwithstanding the short time frame, suddenly you're presented with new numbers... and a suggestion that the original OP claim was never based upon the original numbers or the original time frame! Wow! And, of course, the second batch of numbers then subsequently presented come equally tailored ala one of the Harper Conservatives most 'vaunted' anti-gun registry advocates. suggest not to feed trolls in the future... and I also need to begin to take my own advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) I know I know.....it's easier for leaner people to get the bullet/knife/noose to do the trick ! Is there a pink font for sarcasm because I would use it here? Edited January 9, 2012 by guyser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) I quit reading after seeing the referenced short time period. He's tried this same ploy in climate change related threads... No, I used much longer geologic time horizons to play rope-a-dope with climate change. Try to be more adaptable if you want to "win" these snarky dust ups. How is that climate change thing going anyway....don't forget to hide the decline. suggest not to feed trolls in the future... and I also need to begin to take my own advice. But you never do! Now if we can get back on topic, why has Canadian suicide by means other than firearms increased since the 1990's? Those trolling for their anti-Harper and climate change agenda need not reply. Edited January 9, 2012 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 I know I know.....it's easier for leaner people to get the bullet/knife/noose to do the trick ! Well...yea...but that wouldn't explain poisoning. Fat people could surely down some drain cleaner with equal aplomb, no? Is there a pink font for sarcasm because I would use it here? Works for me, but I expect a "suicide is not funny" warning anytime now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huh Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 I thought the left, people generally for more gun control, were also generally for things like assisted suicide, but now some are claiming that gun control prevents suicides because even in lieu of firearms more people will try to hang themselves but fail? Aside from the fact that our suicide rate hasn't changed, how can a progressive or liberal be for abortion or be pro choice while at the same time be against suicide? I don't want anyone to kill themselves but it is the ultimate personal choice, to try and prop up gun control because it leads to more people choosing more difficult methods of suicide that cause more suffering but might lead to more failed attempts seems really obscene to me. Maybe you should consider every person who does hang themselves successfully, who would have otherwise shot themselves, in those minutes they spent strangling and then the brain death to follow, how much suffering was that? Is that worth the few failed attempts due gun control..who knows, again, this is an obscene argument, and a desperate attempt to justify gun control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Suicides have long been a thorn in the side of rabid gun control types, because as has been demonstrated in Canada, other means are substituted in lieu of easy access to firearms. So firearms related suicides go down for a false sense of accomplishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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