TimG Posted December 22, 2011 Report Posted December 22, 2011 I don't see why a child should be forced to listen to music. Where is the harm in not listening?Music is a subject in school. It is no different from allowing parents to pull their kids from biology classes because evolution is taught. At some point, society needs to tell parents that their kids need to understand the society they live in and religion is no justification for willful ignorance. Quote
Guest American Woman Posted December 22, 2011 Report Posted December 22, 2011 Music is a subject in school. It is no different from allowing parents to pull their kids from biology classes because evolution is taught. Good point. I have to agree that it is no different, and I wouldn't support parents being allowed to pull their kids from biology class for that reason. Quote
g_bambino Posted December 22, 2011 Report Posted December 22, 2011 IMV, the definition of "Canada" and "Canadian" is something that we Canadians do on our own, in our own way. The State does not decide membership. We do. Who's "we", exactly. And what of the individual "we" are judging as Canadian or not? Does he or she not get a say in how they define themselves? Shouldn't the latter actually take precedence over what an undefined, external mob says? Quote
PIK Posted December 22, 2011 Report Posted December 22, 2011 Their country is Canada if they're Canadian citizens. If you actually believe that, then you are no better than those zealots. And now we are seeing that you can just go out buy a canadian citizenship, people of your ilk have cheapened our citizenship. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
cybercoma Posted December 22, 2011 Report Posted December 22, 2011 You can call me a bigot or racist until your fingers fall off it is not going to change anything And you can keep hitting that report button until your figners fall off, your arguments speak for themselves. Quote
cybercoma Posted December 22, 2011 Report Posted December 22, 2011 And now we are seeing that you can just go out buy a canadian citizenship, people of your ilk have cheapened our citizenship. People of "my ilk"? I don't have anything to do with citizenship registrations or the Lebanese community, nor have I ever advocated for more relaxed immigration laws. Keep trying out those insults though. Maybe you'll find an accurate one at some point. Quote
The_Squid Posted December 22, 2011 Report Posted December 22, 2011 Poor kid.... doesn't have much of a chance in society.... Extremely bad parenting... Reasonable accomodation? No. I don't find anything reasonable about avoiding music class. Is this a really big deal? Probably not. And, regarding the red-herring brought up by a poster on banning of noise for Jews; I think that this is ridiculous as well. You can stay quiet all you want, but not allowing me to run my lawnmower because you are religious is not reasonable whatsoever. Quote
cybercoma Posted December 22, 2011 Report Posted December 22, 2011 (edited) There is more on this particular Muslim interpretation about music here: http://www.inter-islam.org/Prohibitions/Mansy_music.htm It seems that the same rules that prohibit many Muslims from drinking and promiscuity, also refer to music. There is concern about the psychological and physiological effects of being constantly exposed to music. Songs carry messages and Muslims here are arguing that they should be free to choose whether or not they are exposed to those messages. Whether you agree with them or not, they have a point. We shouldn't be forcing people to be exposed to something that they feel is against their religious values. Edited December 22, 2011 by cybercoma Quote
olp1fan Posted December 22, 2011 Report Posted December 22, 2011 (edited) Whether you agree with them or not, they have a point. They don't have a point, no one is stopping them from being home schooled It is time we stop pandering to every religion and tell them too bad If they can't participate in music class they should be given a failed grade and I highly don't believe it says anything about music being bad in the Koran Edited December 22, 2011 by olp1fan Quote
Guest American Woman Posted December 22, 2011 Report Posted December 22, 2011 Songs carry messages and Muslims here are arguing that they should be free to choose whether or not they are exposed to those messages. They are free to choose. Quote
jbg Posted December 22, 2011 Report Posted December 22, 2011 You can call me a bigot or racist until your fingers fall off it is not going to change anything Anyone in some people's eyes is a bigot who doesn't approve of every unreasonable demand made by newcomers to our respective countries. I'm happy they chose to leave the hellholes from which they came. I have no plan of their making our countries into another Pakistan or Iran. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
olp1fan Posted December 22, 2011 Report Posted December 22, 2011 Anyone in some people's eyes is a bigot who doesn't approve of every unreasonable demand made by newcomers to our respective countries. I'm happy they chose to leave the hellholes from which they came. I have no plan of their making our countries into another Pakistan or Iran. That's my point of view, Racist and Bigot are thrown around too much these days that the words mean absolutely nothing anymore everyone is a bigot or racist anyway..even the same people accusing people of being racist or bigots Quote
The_Squid Posted December 22, 2011 Report Posted December 22, 2011 We shouldn't be forcing people to be exposed to something that they feel is against their religious values. Should religious people be excused (still be allowed to graduate from public school) from biology class because they don't "believe" in evolution? Quote
olp1fan Posted December 22, 2011 Report Posted December 22, 2011 Should religious people be excused (still be allowed to graduate from public school) from biology class because they don't "believe" in evolution? I've known people from the congregation I was in whom were pulled out of school by their parents because the school would not let them recognize creationism instead of evolution Quote
The_Squid Posted December 22, 2011 Report Posted December 22, 2011 I've known people from the congregation I was in whom were pulled out of school by their parents because the school would not let them recognize creationism instead of evolution That was not the question. Quote
cybercoma Posted December 22, 2011 Report Posted December 22, 2011 Should religious people be excused (still be allowed to graduate from public school) from biology class because they don't "believe" in evolution? They have been. But, that's not the same thing as say forcing someone who is Jewish to eat pork. Exposed was a bad choice of word. In the case of the music, you're forcing someone to commit what would be a sin according to their religion. It's not a sin for a Christian to learn about science in school, then learn creationism in their Church. Quote
The_Squid Posted December 22, 2011 Report Posted December 22, 2011 Although, I should have phrased the question as : Should a child be allowed to be excused from biology due to religious reasons, and still be allowed to graduate? Quote
olp1fan Posted December 22, 2011 Report Posted December 22, 2011 They have been. But, that's not the same thing as say forcing someone who is Jewish to eat pork. Exposed was a bad choice of word. In the case of the music, you're forcing someone to commit what would be a sin according to their religion. It's not a sin for a Christian to learn about science in school, then learn creationism in their Church. Can you show me in the Koran where it says listening to music is a sin Quote
olp1fan Posted December 22, 2011 Report Posted December 22, 2011 Although, I should have phrased the question as : Should a child be allowed to be excused from biology due to religious reasons, and still be allowed to graduate? No they shouldn't Quote
cybercoma Posted December 22, 2011 Report Posted December 22, 2011 Can you show me in the Koran where it says listening to music is a sin I posted a link that explains that particular interpretation of the Qu'ran. There are a bunch of different sects of Islam, just as there are different sects in Christianity and Judaism; they all interpret the Qu'ran differently. My point is that it's not up to you to decide what the "right" interpretation is. It's their religion. Quote
cybercoma Posted December 22, 2011 Report Posted December 22, 2011 Squid, I went to Catholic school growing up and they never taught evolution. Just avoided the topic altogether. I graduated just fine. Quote
The_Squid Posted December 22, 2011 Report Posted December 22, 2011 They have been. I don't belieive that is true in Canada. Provide some evidence please. In BC, all students must pass biology or they do not graduate. And evolution is part of biology. There are minimum standards. But, that's not the same thing as say forcing someone who is Jewish to eat pork. Neither is being "exposed" to music. Exposed was a bad choice of word. In the case of the music, you're forcing someone to commit what would be a sin according to their religion. It's not a sin for a Christian to learn about science in school, then learn creationism in their Church. It is exactly the same thing actually. Millions and millions of Muslims listen to music every day and do not believe that they are "sinning". This is another strange "sect", who are an extreme minority. Quote
The_Squid Posted December 22, 2011 Report Posted December 22, 2011 (edited) Squid, I went to Catholic school growing up and they never taught evolution. Just avoided the topic altogether. I graduated just fine. This is not the case any more. In BC, there are standards for all schools. However, your story is irrelevent to what is currently happening in the curriculum. Edited December 22, 2011 by The_Squid Quote
Guest American Woman Posted December 22, 2011 Report Posted December 22, 2011 In the case of the music, you're forcing someone to commit what would be a sin according to their religion. No one is forcing them to attend public school, therefore no one is forcing them to commit a sin. They have the freedom to send their kids to a private school or to home school them. Quote
cybercoma Posted December 22, 2011 Report Posted December 22, 2011 No one is forcing them to attend public school, therefore no one is forcing them to commit a sin. They have the freedom to send their kids to a private school or to home school them. Maybe they can't afford a private school and are unable to home school them. In which case, they are being forced to send them to public school because they will be charged with neglect or truancy (depending on the state) if they don't. You have to send your kids to school. They should not be denied a fundamental right, a requirement even, simply because they don't want their child committing a sin when he/she is in class. The kid can be taught the ABCs and 123s without it being done through music. There's no reason he/she needs to be exposed to music, if they don't want him to be. Quote
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