Face veils banned for citizenship oaths

[wyly]

Oh please, born in Canada Canadians are becoming less religious by the year, its the minorities that are getting into the country that give a crap about religious freedom

How can a liberal be pro muslim when muslim faith in the mid east violates everything a liberal is for

freedom of choice is an absolute....

[olp1fan]

Relevance? Ever get robbed by anyone in a veil?

have you ever been robbed by anyone wearing a ski mask?

[olp1fan]

freedom of choice is an absolute....

Do Muslim women have a choice?

Refusing = getting beat up or killed by the male

Edited December 13, 2011 by olp1fan

[Guest American Woman]

The Conservative minister called the issue a matter of deep principle that goes to the heart of Canada’s identity and the country’s values of openness and equality. He said women who feel obliged to have their faces covered in public often come from a cultural milieu that treats women as property rather than equal human beings.

Kenney made the announcement in the French-speaking province of Quebec, which has experienced heated debates over how much Canada should bend to accommodate newcomers. While in the rest of Canada such issues are more often raised by conservatives, in Quebec it’s the left-leaning and Parti Quebecois separatists who often discuss it. link

Seems it's going deeper than just being able to see that they are reciting the oath.

Edited to add: At least the emotions behind it - not the legalities.

Edited December 13, 2011 by American Woman

[olp1fan]

In my Canada the safety of women, children, homosexuals and apostates come before religion

Edited December 13, 2011 by olp1fan

[Guest American Woman]

I have to say - I'm surprised that Canada is a front runner in this legislation. I would have expected something like this out of the U.S. before Canada. Am I alone in that thinking? And also, do you Canadians think Quebec has any influence/bearing on this?

[dre]

I don't understand that mindset - how is it questioning the sincerity and faith of just some citizenship applicants and not others it applies to all applicants?

You must have missed the last couple of hundred years of debate over religious freedom. "The law applies to everyone equally" never has been a viable defense of laws that infringe on religious freedoms. If the government wants to limit religious expression they need to provide a tangible reason for doing so, that cant be easily avoided.

If the government tried to ban the wearing of the holy cross by saying "Dont worry! atheists cant wear them either so its fair!!!" would you buy that? Of course not. And the courts would strike the law down.

[Jack Weber]

Oh please, born in Canada Canadians are becoming less religious by the year, its the minorities that are getting into the country that give a crap about religious freedom

How can a liberal be pro muslim when muslim faith in the mid east violates everything a liberal is for

Two words...

Moral relativism...

Two More words...

Cultural relativism...

Edited December 13, 2011 by Jack Weber

[wyly]

Good enough for me.

only because the government is looking for trouble, an all female citizenship ceremony eliminates all issues...this is religious intolerance in disguise, the right had same objections when sikhs were prevented for years from joining the rcmp and the military because they refused to remove their turbans...

[olp1fan]

Two words..

Cultural relativism...

I understand how women are suppressed in Islam, I also understand how homosexuals are viewed, I also understand how converting to another religion is viewed, I also understand how dating a different ethnicity is viewed

There is no freedom in Islam ..even moderate Islam

Edited December 13, 2011 by olp1fan

[dre]

I have to say - I'm surprised that Canada is a front runner in this legislation. I would have expected something like this out of the U.S. before Canada. Am I alone in that thinking? And also, do you Canadians think Quebec has any influence/bearing on this?

I would have expected something like this out of the U.S. before Canada.

Not me. We have been dealing with these kinds of issues for years. Whenever you have a lot of people from other cultures and customs around these kinds of things popup. There was a number of court cases a few years back over carrying the Kirpan... A big dagger carried by sikhs.

In most public places in Canada a kirpan is allowed, although there have been some court cases involving the carrying of the object on school premises. In the 2006 Supreme Court of Canada decision of Multani v. Commission scolaire Marguerite‑Bourgeoys the court held that the banning of the kirpan in a school environment offended Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms, nor could the limitation be upheld under s. 1 of the Charter, as per R. v. Oakes. The issue started when a 12-year-old schoolboy dropped a 20 cm (8-inch) long kirpan in school. School staff and parents were very concerned, and the student was required to attend school under police supervision until the court decision[3] was reached. In September 2008, Montreal police announced that a 13-year-old student would be charged after he allegedly threatened another student with his kirpan. However, while he was declared guilty of threatening his schoolmates, he was granted an absolute discharge for the crime on April 15, 2009

The government was not even able to ban them from schools.

The courts also ruled that sihks could not be forced to wear motorcycle helmets like everyone else is, because it would require the removal of their turbans.

Why would you expect something like this out of the US but not Canada? These issues exist all over the world.

Edited December 13, 2011 by dre

[Jack Weber]

I also understand how dating a different ethnicity is viewed

There is no freedom in Islam ..even moderate Islam

So do I...In fact,I married in this fashion...

Not sure I agree with the blanket statement about over 1 billion people,however,Islamofascists need to be confronted all the time....

[wyly]

I understand how women are suppressed in Islam, I also understand how homosexuals are viewed, I also understand how converting to another religion is viewed, I also understand how dating a different ethnicity is viewed

There is no freedom in Islam ..even moderate Islam

homosexuals are still persecuted in canada, we still have religious persecution on canada, we still have racial persecution in canada...but none of that persecution is done legally ... now you kenny and the cpc want to make religious persecution part of canada's legal procedure?

[cybercoma]

They are more than welcome to return to where they've come from where they can practice this "right" freely

They would force our women to wear the outfit and you would force their women not to. One is just as bad as the other.

[Guest American Woman]

They would force our women to wear the outfit and you would force their women not to. One is just as bad as the other.

Ummmm. No. There is a valid reason for the requirement that they not wear it during the citizenship oath. What valid reason do they have for forcing them to wear it? One is not "just as bad as the other."

[cybercoma]

Good enough for me.

Because they're going to get all the way to the process of taking the oath, which comes after having to study for the citizenship exam that most Canadians would fail, only to not recite the oath under the veils? Give me a break.

[Guest American Woman]

Because they're going to get all the way to the process of taking the oath, which comes after having to study for the citizenship exam that most Canadians would fail, only to not recite the oath under the veils? Give me a break.

One can study and learn about a country, but swearing loyalty to it is a completely different matter.

[Jack Weber]

Because they're going to get all the way to the process of taking the oath, which comes after having to study for the citizenship exam that most Canadians would fail, only to not recite the oath under the veils? Give me a break.

My wife passed the exam..But then again,she does'nt wear regressive head gear as a cultural statement...

[cybercoma]

He said women who feel obliged to have their faces covered in public often come from a cultural milieu that treats women as property rather than equal human beings.

I would suggest that Minister take a look at his own backyard where women are treated as object rather than human beings, pressured into surgically altering their bodies to meet a beauty ideale our society forces upon them, forced to take jobs at lower wages than their male counterparts, abused in the home at a rate of 9:1 in proportion to men, and more. It's a total fabrication that women here are actually free from persecution. They're persecuted, but under the veil of equality.

[Guest Derek L]

They would force our women to wear the outfit and you would force their women not to. One is just as bad as the other.

Exactly…..I really don’t see how putting a face on the issue in some circumstances is a wrong thing……Other then in this case, or getting a driver licence or appearing in court, I really don’t care if someone wants to wear a Batman costume and call it a religious or cultural right….whatever floats your boat……

[olp1fan]

have you guys seen the news where that Pakistani model was naked on the cover of FHM? It ended up being a photoshop picture but shes received hundreds of death threats by other muslims .. pure Islam right there

I don't see why I should respect

[cybercoma]

Ummmm. No. There is a valid reason for the requirement that they not wear it during the citizenship oath. What valid reason do they have for forcing them to wear it? One is not "just as bad as the other."

For the requirement that it's indecent to have your tits hanging out in public, like modern fashion dictates.

[wyly]

One can study and learn about a country, but swearing loyalty to it is a completely different matter.

how naive...as if swearing an oath has stopped any criminals from entering canada, the usa or any country...

[dre]

Isnt the oath pretty much just ceremonial anyways... I assume that at this point we have already identified the applicant, screened them, and accepted them... If thats the case then it doesnt really matter what they wear IMO.

[Jack Weber]

have you guys seen the news where that Pakistani model was naked on the cover of FHM? It ended up being a photoshop picture but shes received hundreds of death threats by other muslims .. pure Islam right there

I don't see why I should respect

Or how 'bout the trial going on right now about that nutcase who killed his daughters and his 1st wife (from a polygamous marriage) because he thought they were dressing and acting like "whores" for dressing like any Western woman and having the temerity for having a boyfriend???

How "progressive" of him!!!