Obama snubbing Harper again?

[Smallc]

Queen Elizabeth II is Canada's head of state. Regardless, I'm pretty sure smallc means Calderone, the President of Mexico, who likely receives higher precedence and accordant treatment since, as a president, he's a visiting head of state, as opposed to Harper, who's simply a prime minister.

Yeah, that. It goes back to the post I was responding to.. As for David Johnston; as the representative of the head of state of Canada, he'd probably get more formal treatment..and even less in the way of press coverage.

[Guest American Woman]

Queen Elizabeth II is Canada's head of state. Regardless, I'm pretty sure smallc means Calderone, the President of Mexico, who likely receives higher precedence and accordant treatment since, as a president, he's a visiting head of state, as opposed to Harper, who's simply a prime minister.

I doubt whether the fact that Harper's "simply a prime minister" rather than a president has anything to do with anything. I'm sure the PM of Great Britain has enjoyed a state dinner or two as has the PM of Canada. I would say that this was simply not that kind of visit. At any rate, it's much ado about nothing.

[jbg]

Queen Elizabeth II is Canada's head of state. Regardless, I'm pretty sure smallc means Calderone, the President of Mexico, who likely receives higher precedence and accordant treatment since, as a president, he's a visiting head of state, as opposed to Harper, who's simply a prime minister.

Oops. I made a mistake there. I thought the confusion was between "Calderone" and "Cameron".

[Smallc]

I'm sure the PM of Great Britain has enjoyed a state dinner or two as has the PM of Canada.

I would certainly expect not. An official dinner maybe, but not a state dinner. They are different, and one is less extravagant generally. Communications between a president and prime minister are not on a state to state leve, but rather government to government.

[Guest American Woman]

I would certainly expect not. An official dinner maybe, but not a state dinner. They are different, and one is less extravagant generally. Communications between a president and prime minister are not on a state to state leve, but rather government to government.

Well then, your expectations are wrong.

[Smallc]

Maybe you're right. It does say that the dinner can also be given for a head of government on some sites. The rest of the post was right though. There would still also be differences in the dinner.

[Guest American Woman]

Maybe you're right. It does say that the dinner can also be given for a head of government on some sites. The rest of the post was right though. There would still also be differences in the dinner.

There's no maybe about it - state dinners have been given for prime ministers; and a state dinner is a state dinner - they don't serve prime rib for heads of state while serving spam for prime ministers.

[g_bambino]

It does say that the dinner can also be given for a head of government on some sites.

I can't find a clear answer either way. Wikipedia (without citation, however) says the US considers events held for heads of government as state functions, just as much as those for heads of state. However, this article makes a difference between the two, calling the former an "official dinner" and the latter a "state dinner".

There would still also be differences in the dinner.

That was my impression as well. Hence, the more rarely worn white tie for monarchs like Juan Carlos of Spain and Elizabeth II of no fixed address, but black tie, otherwise.

[Guest American Woman]

I can't find a clear answer either way.

The clear answer is that there have been state dinners for Prime Ministers. President Obama's first state dinner was for the Prime Minister of India.

[Brijohlaw]

Maybe

When will Canada demand respect from the US? Canada should go on strike!!

http://m.ctv.ca/toronto/20111207/Harper_border_security_deal_Obama-111207.html

While Canadian news outlets were doing a full-court press to cover the new border deal with the United States, it appears that the response south of the border could better be defined as "meh."

Stephen Harper met U.S. President Barack Obama at the White House Wednesday afternoon, but there was no pomp and ceremony planned – no state dinner and apparently no photo op in the Oval Office.

As well, a search of two major U.S. newspapers - The New York Times and Washington Post - yields nary a word about Harper's visit.

But for navel-gazing Canadians, at least the Times was still playing up its recent story on NHL tough guys and brain injuries.

On CNN's website, Obama's schedule is posted, noting a 2:15 p.m. "bilateral meeting" with Harper followed by statements from the two at 3 p.m., before Obama heads off to a campaign event at 4:35 p.m.

A White House agenda posted online simply states "the (Oval Office) meeting is closed press."

That led Washington's WTOP Radio political commentator Mark Plotkin to suggest to CTV News Channel the prime minister was apparently given a choice between an Oval Office photo op, or public statements with the president afterward.

Andrew MacDougall, associate director of communications with the PMO, declined to answer whether Harper was given a choice, but did reply in an email to CTVNews.ca confirming meeting times.

But Plotkin decried his country's apathy toward its northern neighbour.

"This is the same country that seems to be continually snubbed by this president," he said.

"I must wonder why no state dinner for this prime minister? They had a state dinner for Mexico – nothing for Canada. I think you're treated quite shabbily by this administration," he said.

Does Mexico get better treatment because of the large Hispanic voting community in the U.S.? Do the Democrats play up this connection?

If there's any political gain in today's announcement for Obama, who faces an election in 2012, it's telling America he's tough on border security in the south and north, Plotkin added.

That aside, he said Harper's visit is still being treated like a diplomatic and political "quickie."

"There is no fanfare, there is no buzz, there is not even information that he is here in this city," he said.

"Why do you stand for it?" he added, exasperated.

[Brijohlaw]

I feel that Canada should also review its water deals with the United States and maybe then Obama will start honouring its agreements with us.

[Smallc]

There's no maybe about it - state dinners have been given for prime ministers; and a state dinner is a state dinner - they don't serve prime rib for heads of state while serving spam for prime ministers.

I just find this difficult. Maybe it's a US thing, since you don't separate the two offices. The PM of Canada doesn't represent the state, can't perform a state visit, and I thought, couldn't have a state dinner held for him.

[Smallc]

However, this article makes a difference between the two, calling the former an "official dinner" and the latter a "state dinner".

That's what I would think. A PM, if not on a working visit (as Harper has always been while in Washington under Barack Obama thus far) would be there on an official visit.

[g_bambino]

The clear answer is that there have been state dinners for Prime Ministers. President Obama's first state dinner was for the Prime Minister of India.

Got definitive proof that it was a state and not official dinner? Please refer back to the article I linked to which defines dinners for prime ministers as official, not state.

Here's another that calls a White House dinner for the Prime Minister of Italy an "official dinner".

[ed.: +]

Edited January 24, 2012 by g_bambino

[g_bambino]

That's what I would think. A PM, if not on a working visit (as Harper has always been while in Washington under Barack Obama thus far) would be there on an official visit.

Yes, the working versus official visit just complicates things even further. But, I think it's clear that Harper was in Washington on a working visit, which kind of renders the whole state versus official dinner debate a bit moot.

[Guest American Woman]

Got definitive proof that it was a state and not official dinner? Please refer back to the article I linked to which defines dinners for prime ministers as official, not state.

Yes, I have proof. From the White House blog:

In honor of the arrival of His Excellency Dr. Manmohan Singh, Prime Minister of the Republic of India, and his wife, Mrs. Gursharan Kaur, President Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama will hold the first official State Dinner of the Presidency.

As a bonus, I'll cite Remarks at a State Dinner Honoring Prime Minister Jean Chretien of Canada:

Prime Minister and Mrs. Chretien, Ambassador and Mrs. Chretien, distinguished Canadian guests and my fellow Americans: It has been a real honor for me to welcome the Prime Minister and Mrs. Chretien to Washington and to do our best to return the warm hospitality that Hillary and I received in Ottawa 2 years ago.

The whole state visit has gone exactly as planned,.........

I could cite more state dinners for PM's - including Canadian PM's - but I trust I've made my point.

[bush_cheney2004]

Yes, I have proof.....

I could cite more state dinners for PM's - including Canadian PM's - but I trust I've made my point.

Indeed....the White House staff is very efficient that way. We sent a wedding invitation to President and Mrs. George H. W. Bush based on a tip from one of those huge wedding dress magazines, and sure as hell, the White House sent us an autopen signed RSVP declining the invite with their best wishes. Cool!

[guyser]

We sent a wedding invitation to President and Mrs. George H. W. Bush based on a tip from one of those huge wedding dress magazines, and sure as hell, the White House sent us an autopen signed RSVP declining the invite with their best wishes. Cool!

Seriously?

If so I like it !

[bush_cheney2004]

Seriously?

If so I like it !

Yep...seriously. It looks real nice in our wedding photo album. Here is the address in case you want to send one for real or as a gag....just update for Barack and Michelle. I wonder if it works for "same sex marriage" wedding invitations, since that is not legal at the federal level?

http://wedding.theknot.com/wedding-planning/wedding-invitations/qa/wedding-invitations-to-the-white-house.aspx

Edited January 24, 2012 by bush_cheney2004

[guyser]

Yep...seriously. It looks real nice in our wedding photo album. Here is the address in case you want to send one for real or as a gag....just update for Barack and Michelle.

Thanks. Should I get married soon.....

I wonder if it works for "same sex marriage" wedding invitations, since that is not legal at the federal level?

Wait a sec....are you suggesting something?

[Yukon Jack]

Harper has not ingratiated himself towards other countries. Perhaps It is unseemly to be seen to be cozying up with Harper. Not sure this is just a one way street.... Maybe Harper isn't much fun to have over for dinner. Seems like a pretty dull guy.... I'm not sure we need to worry too much about it.....

Kind of like a Grade II dropout rap "artist" would find Placido Domingo boring and no fun and dull.

Sorry, Squid, you probably have no idea who Placido Domingo is.