Post To The Left Posted December 7, 2011 Report Posted December 7, 2011 (edited) Recently there has been some movement in American foreign policy away from its "we're always behind you no matter how wrong you are" to a more balanced one. Israel has noticed the shift and is trying to rally the Jewish lobby to get America back in line. For example U.S. ambassador to Belgium, Howard Gutman, pointed out the obvious: Israeli treatment of Palestinians pisses of other Arabs. This is of course total taboo for the Americans to admit. Then the Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta had the audacity to say that Likud should break its official policy of never allowing a Palestinian state to exist and "that Israel needs to 'get to the damn table' to negotiate with the Palestinians and 'mend fences' with its neighbors." Then of course there was Clinton slamming Israel on its actions against the free press. While its neighbors are enjoying an Arab Spring Israel seems to moving in the opposite direction: She criticised recent attempts by the centre right-wing coalition to restrict donations to non-government organisations.And she said attempts in some parts of Jerusalem to separate men and women on buses was "reminiscent of Rosa Parks". She also expressed her shock at incidents pointing to a growing discrimination against Israeli women. This included separate seating areas for women on some Jerusalem buses, which she compared with the 1950s era of Rosa Parks, the black American woman who refused to give up her bus seat for white passengers. She said the case of some IDF soldiers who refused to remain for a performance by female singers was reminiscent of the situation in Iran. Hillary Clinton 'concerned over Israeli democracy' So is America in danger of having a practical objective policy towards Israel? Edited December 8, 2011 by Post To The Left Quote
bud Posted December 8, 2011 Report Posted December 8, 2011 Recently there has been some movement in American foreign policy away from its "we're always behind you no matter how wrong you are" to a more balanced one. Israel has noticed the shift and is trying to rally the Jewish lobby to get America back in line. For example U.S. ambassador to Belgium, Howard Gutman, pointed out the obvious: Israeli treatment of Palestinians pisses of other Arabs. This is of course total taboo for the Americans to admit. Then the Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta had the audacity to say that Likud should break its official policy of never allowing a Palestinian state to exist and "that Israel needs to 'get to the damn table' to negotiate with the Palestinians and 'mend fences' with its neighbors." Then of course there was Clinton slamming Israel on its actions against the free press. While its neighbors are enjoying an Arab Spring Israel seems to moving in the opposite direction: So is America in danger of having a practical objective policy towards Israel? america's support for israel has become unsustainable. however, as long as the money from lobby groups such as AIPAC are flowing into campaigns of congressman/women and senators, then their policy will continue to favour israel. notice that people like panetta and gutman do not run election campaigns and are not financially backed by AIPAC, so they have nothing to lose by speaking the truth. the big change that i've noticed happening are the american people finally acknowledging and also questioning the foreign aid that u.s. gives out. we're seeing more and more discontent in regards to the $3 billion a year to israel. Quote http://whoprofits.org/
eyeball Posted December 8, 2011 Report Posted December 8, 2011 So is America in danger of having a practical objective policy towards Israel? Wouldn't Israel be more endangered if this were the case? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Post To The Left Posted December 10, 2011 Author Report Posted December 10, 2011 Wouldn't Israel be more endangered if this were the case? It would definitely make the them more eager for peace. If it would make the ruling party drop its official policy of opposing a Palestinian State it would be worth it. Quote
Post To The Left Posted December 10, 2011 Author Report Posted December 10, 2011 Good video on why America should move away from Israel and let them be independent: Quote
jbg Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 So is America in danger of having a practical objective policy towards Israel? Do you mean a policy of allowing Israel to die? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
dre Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 Do you mean a policy of allowing Israel to die? :lol: Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Bonam Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 Israel can and has done just fine without america's support. In fact, it might even be better off not being restrained by america's leash. America will not always be the world's great superpower, and israel needs to stand independently on its own two feet before that happens. Quote
GostHacked Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 Do you mean a policy of allowing Israel to die? Isreal says they don't need the help. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ljxQn5nm8A Quote
jbg Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 Isreal says they don't need the help. It's quite true that Israel never asked for our men. As far as financial or arms help that's another story. Israel is, in effect, a forward base of the Western world. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
sharkman Posted December 12, 2011 Report Posted December 12, 2011 Do you mean a policy of allowing Israel to die? I don't get this thread. Or in another way of speaking, this thread is about 3 years too late. Obama has been stepping away from Israel since he got in power although he'll probably do lip service to Israel in the next several months leading up to the election. His problem is that the jewish voter realizes this guy is no friend to Israel. Quote
Guest Peeves Posted December 12, 2011 Report Posted December 12, 2011 (edited) I don't get this thread. Or in another way of speaking, this thread is about 3 years too late. Obama has been stepping away from Israel since he got in power although he'll probably do lip service to Israel in the next several months leading up to the election. His problem is that the jewish voter realizes this guy is no friend to Israel. I sometimes wonder if Barack Hussein Obama, blessed be his name, is pulling away from Israel or simply doing his worst to appease Islamic states, which will always be seen by them as a weakness. Edited December 12, 2011 by Peeves Quote
bud Posted December 13, 2011 Report Posted December 13, 2011 not sure what you guys have been smoking, but obama has not done anything to show that he doesn't support israel. unless if you can show me a list of obama's actions that have been anti-israel. Quote http://whoprofits.org/
Post To The Left Posted December 13, 2011 Author Report Posted December 13, 2011 His problem is that the jewish voter realizes this guy is no friend to Israel. And yet according to this recent poll:"In just a year, Jewish Israelis’ opinion of President Barack Obama has turned on its head, A majority, or 54 percent, now say they have a favorable view of the U.S. president — a year ago, just 41 percent of those polled viewed Obama in a positive light." Quote
jbg Posted December 13, 2011 Report Posted December 13, 2011 And yet according to this recent poll:"In just a year, Jewish Israelis’ opinion of President Barack Obama has turned on its head, A majority, or 54 percent, now say they have a favorable view of the U.S. president — a year ago, just 41 percent of those polled viewed Obama in a positive light." In that case they're idiots. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
sharkman Posted December 13, 2011 Report Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) And yet according to this recent poll:"In just a year, Jewish Israelis’ opinion of President Barack Obama has turned on its head, A majority, or 54 percent, now say they have a favorable view of the U.S. president — a year ago, just 41 percent of those polled viewed Obama in a positive light." I was talking about American voters who are jewish, Israelis can't vote for Obama. Interesting poll though. Edited December 13, 2011 by sharkman Quote
cybercoma Posted December 13, 2011 Report Posted December 13, 2011 Do you mean a policy of allowing Israel to die? So Israel should be protected no matter what? What if, say, the Jews decided to have their own Holocaust? Should they be supported even then? Quote
sharkman Posted December 13, 2011 Report Posted December 13, 2011 What's the point of considering such a silly hypothetical? Quote
cybercoma Posted December 13, 2011 Report Posted December 13, 2011 What's the point of considering such a silly hypothetical? Because I want to know at what point Israel should not be supported. It's quite obvious that they shouldn't be supported no matter what. JBG is making the suggesting that Israel ought not be criticized for anything because it will mean the end of the Jewish state. I don't believe that historical oppression of the Jews gives them carte blanche to do whatever they damn well please and expect unwavering support from the US. Quote
sharkman Posted December 13, 2011 Report Posted December 13, 2011 I don't think that's the point JBG is making at all. He's suggesting that the US has effectively abandoned Israel for the most part, that Israel is on her own. Israel deserves better than that from a formerly close ally. Quote
jbg Posted December 13, 2011 Report Posted December 13, 2011 So Israel should be protected no matter what? What if, say, the Jews decided to have their own Holocaust? Should they be supported even then? Should Canada or Britain be protected by the U.S. no matter what? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
bud Posted December 13, 2011 Report Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) I don't think that's the point JBG is making at all. He's suggesting that the US has effectively abandoned Israel for the most part, that Israel is on her own. Israel deserves better than that from a formerly close ally. i ask again, how can you say that? how have they abandoned israel? did obama stop the $3 billion dollar/year gift? no. he renewed it. did obama stop supporting israel in the UN? no. he's supported israel in every situation. did obama stop supporting or threaten to support israel while it continued to not only break international law but also the roadmap which says that israel should not build settlements on palestinian land? no. he let it go despite israel's repeated mockery of any rules, regulations and agreements. you and jbg live in some strange alternate universe where reality just bounces off your heads. Edited December 13, 2011 by bud Quote http://whoprofits.org/
jbg Posted December 14, 2011 Report Posted December 14, 2011 you and jbg live in some strange alternate universe where reality just bounces off your heads. Maybe your version of reality is a rubber ball or slinky toy. Seriously, he has criticized Israel unduly for building housing in already Jewish neighborhoods. He made a keystone speech in Cairo lavishing praise on a very un-admirable Islamic world and gave plaudits to Islam's supposed role in building America. He had the infamous "open mike" discussion with Sarkozy. Those are but a few examples. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
sharkman Posted December 14, 2011 Report Posted December 14, 2011 It's so obvious a policy shift that I really am perplexed at some responses. I mean, even the MSM knows about it. Quote
cybercoma Posted December 15, 2011 Report Posted December 15, 2011 Should Canada or Britain be protected by the U.S. no matter what? Absolutely not. Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.