and the cuts begin....Federal workers

[cybercoma]

except the public sector cuts are coming. THe losses occurred in part time jobs, there was a gain of approx. 35000 and part time went down 53,000. You fail to mention sept. there was 61,000 new jobs.

My link

Still lower than average by a full point. THe sky isn't falling.

Coupled with the wages dropping of course... meaning the jobs are not being replaced with jobs of equal value.

[blueblood]

Coupled with the wages dropping of course... meaning the jobs are not being replaced with jobs of equal value.

wages are dropping thats a fact of life, the asians produce the same products as easterners do at a lower price, the manufacturing labour market is saturated. If you want higher wages, head out to Alberta or Saskatchewan, its that simple. You can't have your cake and eat it to.

[CPCFTW]

Because you pay taxes for all the other benefits you are entitled to.

Wtf kind of argument is this? Because he doesn't collect welfare that he pays taxes for but doesn't qualify for, he shouldn't collect cpp which he has also overpaid for but will qualify for? You lefties have a strange way of viewing the world.

[Shwa]

Wtf kind of argument is this? Because he doesn't collect welfare that he pays taxes for but doesn't qualify for, he shouldn't collect cpp which he has also overpaid for but will qualify for? You lefties have a strange way of viewing the world.

No, I do not get any pensions, GST rebates or any other funds from the govt.

That is the "argument" right there. One could say that they receive no money from the govt., but certainly they benefit heavily from government funding of practically everything in Canada including all those socialist lefty things like health care, roads, airports, business subsidies, etc.

You righties have a strange way of understanding English. Did you just get off the plane?

Edited December 6, 2011 by Shwa

[Moonbox]

Let me explain it to you this way. The Tories hire workers and then they use that to say in the House of Commons, jobs are increasing, we are doing it right, then when they go through the 13 Billion and add another 56+ billion, they have to let these people go because of Canada's debt.

Topaz, you already said that exact same thing. What I said is that Federal hiring made barely a lick of difference in overall employment numbers during the recession. There weren't enough new federal hires to budge the numbers. 10,000 employees = 0.0006% of Canada's working age population. If they were hiring federal workers to make the numbers look good, it would have had to have been more like 100,000 to make any sort of real statistical difference.

This is just a case of you getting your underwear bunched up no matter what the cons do. "They spend too much!" but then "Oh no they're laying off workers and trying to save money!"

Hilarious.

[cybercoma]

wages are dropping thats a fact of life, the asians produce the same products as easterners do at a lower price, the manufacturing labour market is saturated. If you want higher wages, head out to Alberta or Saskatchewan, its that simple. You can't have your cake and eat it to.

Right. The national average is dropping. I'm not talking about particular provinces. We're talking about the overall job rate in Canada and average wages.

Fact of life or not, it will result in some serious social problems if not addressed properly and promptly.

[fellowtraveller]

That is the "argument" right there. One could say that they receive no money from the govt., but certainly they benefit heavily from government funding of practically everything in Canada including all those socialist lefty things like health care, roads, airports, business subsidies, etc.

You righties have a strange way of understanding English. Did you just get off the plane?

Ah yes, when His Shwaness has been routed in argument, you try to move the goalposts.

Do you think people don't notice that?

And why must you insult immigrants? Are you a bigot and a redneck?

[blueblood]

Right. The national average is dropping. I'm not talking about particular provinces. We're talking about the overall job rate in Canada and average wages.

Fact of life or not, it will result in some serious social problems if not addressed properly and promptly.

And your forgetting that prices will have to fall in turn with declining wages. Do you think companies are going to want to sit on excess inventory. Unfortunately for that to happen, the low income people will have to cut up their credit cards and take their buckleys.

Or you could move to Alberta and saskatchewan and produce things that people want and get paid highly for it. Just expect things to be more pricey.

[punked]

And your forgetting that prices will have to fall in turn with declining wages. Do you think companies are going to want to sit on excess inventory. Unfortunately for that to happen, the low income people will have to cut up their credit cards and take their buckleys.

Or you could move to Alberta and saskatchewan and produce things that people want and get paid highly for it. Just expect things to be more pricey.

Prices wont fall with declining wages if commodities go up (that does matter though because Canada is a commodity rich country). Stop talking about Canadian economics like we are the US. We aren't Manufacturing does not drive our economy Commodities do and right now someone is getting pretty rich and selling you an argument about wages and prices based on a US model. That aint our country and it aint our model.

[blueblood]

Prices wont fall with declining wages if commodities go up (that does matter though because Canada is a commodity rich country). Stop talking about Canadian economics like we are the US. We aren't Manufacturing does not drive our economy Commodities do and right now someone is getting pretty rich and selling you an argument about wages and prices based on a US model. That aint our country and it aint our model.

it's your model out east, how's that working?

The people getting rich have businesses producing commodities and servicing commodity producers. Lots of opportunity out west.

Is it a problem if someone gets rich? Why do you easterners hate it when someone makes the big time?

If prices won't fall, I dare you to compare the cost of living in fort Mac vs, Moncton.

[punked]

it's your model out east, how's that working?

The people getting rich have businesses producing commodities and servicing commodity producers. Lots of opportunity out west.

Is it a problem if someone gets rich? Why do you easterners hate it when someone makes the big time?

If prices won't fall, I dare you to compare the cost of living in fort Mac vs, Moncton.

Fort Mac is Rural city above the 50th latitude it isn't far to compare those prices of course the cost of living is going to be higher.

As for the Eastern Model it is still a Resource model the resource happens to be Lumber, fish, Agriculture with some Tourism. Anyone who thinks the East economy is based on Manufacturing has no business talking about the Canadian Economy or what it should be doing. Again your model is silly because it is a US model and we live in a different country.

[blueblood]

Fort Mac is Rural city above the 50th latitude it isn't far to compare those prices of course the cost of living is going to be higher.

As for the Eastern Model it is still a Resource model the resource happens to be Lumber, fish, Agriculture with some Tourism. Anyone who thinks the East economy is based on Manufacturing has no business talking about the Canadian Economy or what it should be doing. Again your model is silly because it is a US model and we live in a different country.

Oh just that most of Canada lives in Ontario and Quebec where a large part is guess what manufacturing and services. Western Canada is resource dependent, and we can tell that by our unemployment rates. West is low, east is high. If the resources are lumber and fish, I would be scared, both are in the tank.

Fort Mac also pays some of the highest wages in the country, why are house prices obscene in fort Mac but not Moncton, after all fort Mac is in the middle of nowhere. Or we can use Calgary vs. Moncton if your worried about the northern factor.

[punked]

Oh just that most of Canada lives in Ontario and Quebec where a large part is guess what manufacturing and services. Western Canada is resource dependent, and we can tell that by our unemployment rates. West is low, east is high. If the resources are lumber and fish, I would be scared, both are in the tank.

Fort Mac also pays some of the highest wages in the country, why are house prices obscene in fort Mac but not Moncton, after all fort Mac is in the middle of nowhere. Or we can use Calgary vs. Moncton if your worried about the northern factor.

Ontario is primarily a service Economy (It is the place all those Resource riches are funneled through). Manufacturing is second to that but I agree it is a much larger part of the Economy and closer to the US model. However Ontario's manufacturing sector does not make up a country. Quebec is moving to a resource model as we speak which is the trend across the country even in Ontario as it does the 13.5% of its economy that is manufacturing will fall.

50 years ago manufacturing was 30% of the Canadian economy it is half of that today at 14-15% in another 50 years it will be even lower because like you say we ship everything to lower wage countries to process. There is just no room for manufacturing growth because there is no investment.

[fellowtraveller]

Fort Mac is Rural city above the 50th latitude it isn't far to compare those prices of course the cost of living is going to be higher.

a rural city? What does that mean?

Fort Mac is about 4 1/2 hours north of Edmonton, which is 3 1/2 hours north of Calagary. The Edmonton -Calgary corridor is the most urban area in Canada as well as the richest urban area in Canada.

81% of Albertans live in urban areas, 19% in rual areas.

The cost of living in Fort Mac is not really high, but the cost of housing certainly is among the worst in Canada

why are house prices obscene in fort Mac

supply and demand, same as anywhere else.

the demand is high, as FM has grown exponentially for a couple of decades with industrial projects pushing the population to around 70,000.

the supply is low, and the reasons are more complex. There is plenty of land, but money for housing development infrastructure like roads, bridges, sewers, power, water, etc normally comes from the municiplaity. With such rapid growth, there has long been a serious shrottage of all those things and particularly serviced lots. That means really high prices and really low vacancy rates. The province has interven3ed financially a couple of times, but there is still a shortgae of affrodabel housing. That means employers have to pay more, much more, to attract workers.

[Shwa]

it's your model out east, how's that working?

It working out great, with the largest manufacturing output and wealthiest economy in Canada, and Quebec second, there are no worries.

The people getting rich have businesses producing commodities and servicing commodity producers. Lots of opportunity out west.

But more opportunity in Ontario, where most people flock too. Plus, our weather is better.

Is it a problem if someone gets rich? Why do you easterners hate it when someone makes the big time?

I don't get this "why do you easterners hate it when" BS. By and large, easterners loveit when people from all over Canada make it big time. Not only does it increase the wealth of the country, put more money into public coffers, but it gives something for the traders on Bay street to acquire when they get bored.

[Shwa]

The Edmonton -Calgary corridor is the most urban area in Canada as well as the richest urban area in Canada.

Wrong.

[PhilosopherKing]

Yes, but does every company have a good one? The answer is no. A lot of them aren't much good to the companies they run

And yet, they earn enormous salaries regardless.

[PhilosopherKing]

No, I do not get any pensions, GST rebates or any other funds from the govt. I do often get an income tax refund, a result of habving overpaid taxes. I do travel to other countries , and pay hefty airport and security suircharges every time I do. I do buy imported food and I do pay retail prices for same.

In other words, you do benefit from services provided by those public service members, and that service will be adversely affected by job cuts. Surely you don't believe large job cuts will not result in cuts to services and programs?

Harper has increased the federal civil service by 10% in a time when population increased about 3%, and he did so without introducing any significant new programs that require lots of staff.

I don't think you are any more aware than I of what staff are required for new programs like the Child Tax Benefit, as an example. But regardless, one presumes all those civil servants are doing work. Now it may be that some of this work doesn't need doing. But in most cases I think it safe to assume that whatever work is being done is required by the red tape, by the procedures and policies in place in a public service where oversight has grown steadily since the Chretien adscam days.

You might tell yourself that much of the work done by civil servants is wasteful and inefficient, brought about by incompetent policies and procedures. But it's highly unlikely those policies and procedures will be reformed. Oversight in the public service has become a mantra, growing more stringent each year since the Chretien adscam days, and enthusiastically supported by the current party in power.