bush_cheney2004 Posted November 9, 2011 Report Posted November 9, 2011 ....If whats good enough? I didnt mention anything about that. No, but I did. If knowledge of all this underage buggerin' is a mortal sin, why are those institutions leaders still around? You gonna close down Penn State too? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
guyser Posted November 9, 2011 Report Posted November 9, 2011 No, but I did. If knowledge of all this underage buggerin' is a mortal sin, why are those institutions leaders still around? You gonna close down Penn State too? State Penn President may be forced out or fired.Board of Trustees are to meet tomorrow to decide. Closing the University is a non-starter. One thing for sure, Ohio and Michigan are happy someone else is the butt of the jokes now. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 9, 2011 Report Posted November 9, 2011 (edited) State Penn President may be forced out or fired.Board of Trustees are to meet tomorrow to decide. Where does it stop...fire their asses too. Closing the University is a non-starter. Why...horrible crimes were committed there. Burn it to the ground I say! One thing for sure, Ohio and Michigan are happy someone else is the butt of the jokes now. No matter, they weren't in the running for the Rose Bowl anyway. Edited November 9, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
blueblood Posted November 9, 2011 Report Posted November 9, 2011 State Penn President may be forced out or fired.Board of Trustees are to meet tomorrow to decide. Closing the University is a non-starter. One thing for sure, Ohio and Michigan are happy someone else is the butt of the jokes now. Oh but you can give them the SMU treatment. Say bye bye to competitive football program for 20 yrs. Quote "Stop the Madness!!!" - Kevin O'Leary "Money is the ultimate scorecard of life!". - Kevin O'Leary Economic Left/Right: 4.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77
guyser Posted November 9, 2011 Report Posted November 9, 2011 Where does it stop...fire their asses too. Why...horrible crimes were committed there. Burn it to the ground I say! Because it would be plain stupid to do so. No matter, they weren't in the running for the Rose Bowl anyway. Tall order for Penn to reach it, they may, but who knows what this horrible scandal will do to the team. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 9, 2011 Report Posted November 9, 2011 Because it would be plain stupid to do so. They must cleanse the earth of the heinous crimes! Then build an even bigger stadium for Happy Valley....I love that...maybe you guys don't know, but it's called "Happy valley". Tall order for Penn to reach it, they may, but who knows what this horrible scandal will do to the team. As good a chance as any other team in the Big 10. Ouch..I just thought of a very bad joke. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 10, 2011 Report Posted November 10, 2011 Joe Pa is out as of tonight...the trustees have moved fast to cover their asses as best they can. The lawyers can smell blood in the water. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Shwa Posted November 10, 2011 Author Report Posted November 10, 2011 Paterno Is Finished at Penn State, and President Is Out Just adding the link from the Times. STATE COLLEGE, Pa. — Graham B. Spanier, one of the longest-serving and highest-paid university presidents in the nation, who has helped raise the academic profile of Penn State during his tenure, stepped down Wednesday night in the wake of a sexual-abuse scandal involving a prominent former assistant football coach and the university’s failure to act to halt further harm. Spanier’s departure came as the university’s Board of Trustees also ended the 84-year-old Joe Paterno’s career, denying him his wish to finish out the season, his 46th as the head football coach and his 62nd over all at the school. Quote
guyser Posted November 10, 2011 Report Posted November 10, 2011 (edited) Joe Pa is out as of tonight...the trustees have moved fast to cover their asses as best they can. The lawyers can smell blood in the water. No surprise, it was the only thing they could do to stop the bleeding. Sad for his legacy , but he had a chance a long time ago to correct it and didnt Anyone can smell the blood, and rightly so, not just lawyers. The one thing I dont understand is why the AD has his job (likely not for long) and why would Sandusky be free on bail? Oh wait, thats two things Edited November 10, 2011 by guyser Quote
fellowtraveller Posted November 10, 2011 Report Posted November 10, 2011 Gee...then you really are advocating that the Roman Catholic Church and the Canadian Government be abolished, because sexual abuse happened on their watch, they knew about it, and did not act in a timely manner to stop it. If the allegations prove to be true...in court...then the university will act accordingly. No way that Penn State refused to act just to protect one perp. Doesn't make any sense. I am not advocating anything about the Catholic Church, it is not the topic of the OP. The school has already acted to protect its revneue stream. That is clearly what they care about, and the evidnce for that is their corporate knowledge of abuse for about 13 years and complete failure to protect the children involved. Now - in a tactic beloved by potential defendants- they have fired everybody and thereby widened the pool of defendants in the avalanche of lawsuits yet to come. Quote The government should do something.
guyser Posted November 10, 2011 Report Posted November 10, 2011 Now - in a tactic beloved by potential defendants- they have fired everybody and thereby widened the pool of defendants in the avalanche of lawsuits yet to come. They can widen it tenfold, Penn State has the deep pockets and will be , likely, the only payer in the whole shebang. Payer as in money, the others will pay handsomely via other ways. Quote
Shady Posted November 10, 2011 Report Posted November 10, 2011 PennState should shut down their football programs immediately. I disagree. Punishing the players for something they had nothing to do with solves nothing. Cleaning out the president, athletic director and the coach is sufficient. And criminal charges can always be pursued. There's no reason to shut down the program itself. Quote
fellowtraveller Posted November 10, 2011 Report Posted November 10, 2011 They can widen it tenfold, Penn State has the deep pockets and will be , likely, the only payer in the whole shebang. Payer as in money, the others will pay handsomely via other ways. That is not how it works. When the pool of defendants is widended, and the $50 million dollar judgement is apportioned between them, the court does not necessarily address the ability to pay....... So if Penn Sate is corporately assessed 25% of the liability, they can certainly pay that and thereby save themselves $37.5 million. They are not obliged to pay other defendantws shares. And that is one reason they have fired everybody and will now hunker down into full prevent defence. They have far less fear of any wrongful dismissal lawsuits than they do of lawsuits from victims. It is all about the money for Penn State and NCAA, always has been. Rotten, rotten, rotten. Quote The government should do something.
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 10, 2011 Report Posted November 10, 2011 No surprise, it was the only thing they could do to stop the bleeding. It surprised a lot of Penn State faithful...to the point of riot. Sad for his legacy , but he had a chance a long time ago to correct it and didnt Not really, he still would have been crucified, even thoug he was in no way culpable or a witness to events. Anyone can smell the blood, and rightly so, not just lawyers. The one thing I dont understand is why the AD has his job (likely not for long) and why would Sandusky be free on bail? Oh wait, thats two things I don't know why the graduate assistant who reported the incident is still employed there as well. If Joe had to go, the entire organization should be turfed, including the trustees. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
guyser Posted November 10, 2011 Report Posted November 10, 2011 That is not how it works. When the pool of defendants is widended, and the $50 million dollar judgement is apportioned between them, the court does not necessarily address the ability to pay....... So if Penn Sate is corporately assessed 25% of the liability, they can certainly pay that and thereby save themselves $37.5 million. They are not obliged to pay other defendantws shares. And that is one reason they have fired everybody and will now hunker down into full prevent defence. No. The court will/can/may direct Penn to pay if all lose. Lawyers are not going to sue just Sandusky because his pocket is too short. Lawyers will first say..."Who has the money?" "what do the other defendants have?" ....'Nothing, ok include Penn State on every claim" They were employees of the school, the school may have (likely but 12 yrs ago? Who knows) Sexaul Harassment/Assault insurance to cover damages , at least partly.It will depend on the reporting clause of the insurance. They have far less fear of any wrongful dismissal lawsuits than they do of lawsuits from victims. It is all about the money for Penn State and NCAA, always has been. Rotten, rotten, rotten. I seriously doubt anyone will sue for wrongful dismissal. Thats is one can of worms no 'injured' party will want to take on. Joe Pa for sure wont be suing, he has more money that he can think of. Quote
blueblood Posted November 10, 2011 Report Posted November 10, 2011 I disagree. Punishing the players for something they had nothing to do with solves nothing. Cleaning out the president, athletic director and the coach is sufficient. And criminal charges can always be pursued. There's no reason to shut down the program itself. No, for something like this, the NCAA death penalty would be very appropriate. It sends a clear message that if you screw around like this you run the risk of ruining your entire program. It's like the scene from full metal jacket where private pile has to watch his whole platoon do pushups in training while eating the jelly donut. It sends the signal that if you screw around someone else pays which would provide much incentive to have your crap together. The players won't be punished, other schools will snap them up. You really need to watch the pony excess espn 30 for 30. Quote "Stop the Madness!!!" - Kevin O'Leary "Money is the ultimate scorecard of life!". - Kevin O'Leary Economic Left/Right: 4.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77
guyser Posted November 10, 2011 Report Posted November 10, 2011 It surprised a lot of Penn State faithful...to the point of riot. Sad that happened, and if they stopped for a moment and asked why they are rioting, they truly should come to the conclusion they are misguided, but they are colleg kids so... Not really, he still would have been crucified, even thoug he was in no way culpable or a witness to events. I cant see how that would have been true. Blemished yes, but when Joe was told that one of his coaches was seen engaging in a sex act w a 10 yr old boy in Joe's shower, and an immediate call to the cops was placed, Joe would have come away intact. "Success with Honor"......sure Joe. I don't know why the graduate assistant who reported the incident is still employed there as well. If Joe had to go, the entire organization should be turfed, including the trustees. Doesnt make sense. As for inclouding the Trustees, I would imagine some of them werent in the position at the time of the crime so they should be exonerated. Quote
Shady Posted November 10, 2011 Report Posted November 10, 2011 The players won't be punished, other schools will snap them up. You really need to watch the pony excess espn 30 for 30. I disagree. Closing the program does punish the players. Also, when a teacher does something like this, we don't close a school right? We don't shut down a hosptial if a doctor does something like this. So why do we have to shut down a program. When the vast majority of people comprising the pgrogam have absolutely nothing to do with this? Quote
blueblood Posted November 10, 2011 Report Posted November 10, 2011 I disagree. Closing the program does punish the players. Also, when a teacher does something like this, we don't close a school right? We don't shut down a hosptial if a doctor does something like this. So why do we have to shut down a program. When the vast majority of people comprising the pgrogam have absolutely nothing to do with this? You close it down to send a message to management that if you hire perverts, you will pay the ultimate price plus tax. Buckley's tastes bad but it works. And the death penalty isn't canceling the program. NCAA death penalty I think shady recruiting and paying players is less of a crime than what the guys at Penn state did. Quote "Stop the Madness!!!" - Kevin O'Leary "Money is the ultimate scorecard of life!". - Kevin O'Leary Economic Left/Right: 4.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77
Shady Posted November 10, 2011 Report Posted November 10, 2011 You close it down to send a message to management that if you hire perverts, you will pay the ultimate price plus tax. Buckley's tastes bad but it works. And the death penalty isn't canceling the program. NCAA death penalty I think shady recruiting and paying players is less of a crime than what the guys at Penn state did. You send a message by putting people in jail if they break the law. Raping children certainly qualifies. Spending 15 years in prison is a much better message sender than punishing people that had nothing to do with it. Quote
guyser Posted November 10, 2011 Report Posted November 10, 2011 You close it down to send a message to management that if you hire perverts, you will pay the ultimate price plus tax. Buckley's tastes bad but it works. And the death penalty isn't canceling the program. NCAA death penalty I think shady recruiting and paying players is less of a crime than what the guys at Penn state did. Sorry , I cannot agree for various reasons. FOr starters, those who appear culpable have been pink slipped. There will be more to go soon, including charges and that may involve Joe. Seniors are graduating and getting drafted. Without the balance of the season, some innocent will miss his shot. Thats blatantly unfair. NCAA knows this is a billion dollar programme and they share in it. Doubt they want to kill that goose. The players are betw 18 and 22 yrs old, none of them having anything to do with any of this. They too will be victimized (by a far less serious action)if they get tossed out on the street. Quote
fellowtraveller Posted November 10, 2011 Report Posted November 10, 2011 [quoteNo. The court will/can/may direct Penn to pay if all lose. Lawyers are not going to sue just Sandusky because his pocket is too short. Lawyers will first say..."Who has the money?" "what do the other defendants have?" ....'Nothing, ok include Penn State on every claim" They were employees of the school, the school may have (likely but 12 yrs ago? Who knows) Sexaul Harassment/Assault insurance to cover damages , at least partly.It will depend on the reporting clause of the insurance. ] Nope. You are correct when you say "Lawyers will first say..."Who has the money?" " The very first lawyers to say that are the Penn State lawyers, who will be well paid and formidable. You can see their first act already, which is to try and separate the school itself from some liability by making emplyees into both former employees and co-defendants. They will acknowledge they were employees since they cannot deny it, but will also claim that the trusteees had no knowledge, that none of was their fault and that as soon as they learned of the issue(which will be November 2011) they acted by firing everybody. Lawyers will of course sue Sandusky because they cannot tar Penn state until they tar Sandusky first and foremost. Quote The government should do something.
guyser Posted November 10, 2011 Report Posted November 10, 2011 You can see their first act already, which is to try and separate the school itself from some liability by making emplyees into both former employees and co-defendants. They will acknowledge they were employees since they cannot deny it, but will also claim that the trusteees had no knowledge, that none of was their fault and that as soon as they learned of the issue(which will be November 2011) they acted by firing everybody. Lawyers will of course sue Sandusky because they cannot tar Penn state until they tar Sandusky first and foremost. The school cannot seperate themselvbes from liability one iota. Mitigating yes, but thats done to stop the bleeding. Employees, school property, school sanctioned charity,all points to Penn St paying. At all and any material times, these were paid school employees, ergo they are covered by the various policies Penn has. Sandusky doesnt have the money, so Penn State will have to pay. All assuming any plaintiffs win. Which, if one is a betting man, they will. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 10, 2011 Report Posted November 10, 2011 (edited) Sad that happened, and if they stopped for a moment and asked why they are rioting, they truly should come to the conclusion they are misguided, but they are colleg kids so... It wasn't just college kids who felt that way over the firing, and the way it was done. I watched the pinhead trustees news conference and clearly they had lawyered up. Joe Paterno helped to transform Penn States from a noname ag school to a respected national institution on and off the field. I cant see how that would have been true. Blemished yes, but when Joe was told that one of his coaches was seen engaging in a sex act w a 10 yr old boy in Joe's shower, and an immediate call to the cops was placed, Joe would have come away intact. No, the trustees had been gunning for Joe over the past ten years....said he had too much power. Doesnt make sense. As for inclouding the Trustees, I would imagine some of them werent in the position at the time of the crime so they should be exonerated. No...there were post grand jury discussions and decisions with impact to this day...fire them all for complicity during or after the fact. Edited November 10, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Shwa Posted November 10, 2011 Author Report Posted November 10, 2011 (edited) You send a message by putting people in jail if they break the law. Raping children certainly qualifies. Spending 15 years in prison is a much better message sender than punishing people that had nothing to do with it. The issue isn't about the child rape, it is about it going unreported and who was implicated in that and it points directly at the football program. It wasn't just a coach, it was a former coach who was repeatedly welcome back into the football facilities. Didn't Paterno know that nothing had come of the allegation of child rape against a guy that was always floating around the football program and ran a prgram for kids? Didn't he have a single clue? However, killing the football program is taking it a little too far. But Penn State has to do the right thing or leave it up the NCAA to slam them good. Pull out of the BCS and self-impose sanctions for a multi-year period. If Ohio State can do this and man-up about some memorabilia-for-cash that netted a few thousand dollars, then certainly Penn State can for unreported child rape. Edited November 10, 2011 by Shwa Quote
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