The Bigoted Liberal Party of Canada, and the Predictable NDP

[Smallc]

dumb? an important federal position in a country that is officially bilingual not requiring the applicant to be bilingual is what is dumb...

If it would have stopped a more capable auditor from getting the job, then yes, it's dumb. Both languages are official.

when hiring a someone to fly a plane his/her ability to be fully qualified is set in stone...requiring someone to be experienced as manager of the fries machine at McDs is not set in stone...

Uhh, what?

I've got one kid who is bilingual and she doesn't need to be for her career and wyly Jr is on his way to being bilingual as well and this is in calgary!...

And? I'm not bilingual (I'd like to be, but it isn't as easy as you make out), but I'm doing fine.

[wyly]

If it would have stopped a more capable auditor from getting the job, then yes, it's dumb. Both languages are official.

now name some high ranking federal civil servants in ottawa who are unilingual french...

Uhh, what?

importance of the position is relative, manager french fries, not important...a high ranking federal position very important...the more important the position the more stringent are the requirements to fill that position...pilot, surgeon, astronaut very important, manager of french fries or an employee of smallc not very important...

And? I'm not bilingual (I'd like to be, but it isn't as easy as you make out), but I'm doing fine.

if two kids from calgary who can find the time to become bilingual in a province where french is totally irrelevant, then there is no excuse for a civil servant in a important position not to be bilingual... Edited November 4, 2011 by wyly

[Smallc]

You're missing the point entirely. It's far more important for him to be a good auditor. It seems that's something that he is.

[wyly]

You're missing the point entirely. It's far more important for him to be a good auditor. It seems that's something that he is.

in government hiring optics is crucial you are not going to ignore a white supremacists if he/she has the right track record to be the auditor...hire the best person for the job who meets the requirements, one of those requirements in a bilingual country include speaking both languages...I can't accept there is not suitable bilingual candidate...do as mrs wywly does when she can't fill a position, repost the job until you do...

[Smallc]

in government hiring optics is crucial you are not going to ignore a white supremacists if he/she has the right track record to be the auditor

pfft

I can't accept there is not suitable bilingual candidate...do as mrs wywly does when she can't fill a position, repost the job until you do...

And what if you can't wait?

[capricorn]

...a bilingual country...

Is it? Canada recognizes the existence of two official languages. That's the underpinning of the Official Languages Act. But the Act does not declare the country, Canada, is bilingual. There's a huge distinction.

[cybercoma]

The problem is that people need to be able to communicate in either language at the federal level, which means the federal bureaucracy needs to be bilingual whether the country itself is or not (it's not).

[Smallc]

The problem is that people need to be able to communicate in either language at the federal level, which means the federal bureaucracy needs to be bilingual whether the country itself is or not (it's not).

Not all of them though. I'm sure there are people in the Auditor General's office that are at least bilingual, if not some that are unilingual French.

[capricorn]

Not all of them though. I'm sure there are people in the Auditor General's office that are at least bilingual, if not some that are unilingual French.

Yup.

The duty to offer services to the public in either of the official languages applies where there is significant demand.

22. Every federal institution has the duty to ensure that any member of the public can communicate with and obtain available services from its head or central office in either official language, and has the same duty with respect to any of its other offices or facilities

a. within the National Capital Region; or

b. in Canada or elsewhere, where there is significant demand for communications with and services from that office or facility in that language.

My bolding.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/O-3.01/page-6.html#h-7

[Moonlight Graham]

Harper is really doing a great job trying to get the Quebec votes for next election. What a moronic political maneuver.

Having to be bilingual to work for the federal gov (necessary for most decent or advanceable fed jobs) is a joke, a complete discrimination to most Canadians. What kind of moronic country do we live in where the vast majority of Canadians (83% - only 17% are bilingual, over half living in Quebec) aren't even qualified to work for their federal government based on the language they speak?

[Handsome Rob]

Harper is really doing a great job trying to get the Quebec votes for next election. What a moronic political maneuver.

Having to be bilingual to work for the federal gov (necessary for most decent or advanceable fed jobs) is a joke, a complete discrimination to most Canadians. What kind of moronic country do we live in where the vast majority of Canadians (83% - only 17% are bilingual, over half living in Quebec) aren't even qualified to work for their federal government based on the language they speak?

It could be seen as brilliant.

It forces the NDP to stand up for Quebec, which in turn alienates them to much of the rest of Canada.

Harper has to know he will never find smashing success anywhere in Quebec, regardless of what he does or does not do.

[Argus]

The Tories would like us to believe that out of the population in Canada there is only one guy for the job and he doesn't speak French, even though he's from New Brunswick??? The Tories also said in there advertisement that the person must speak French.

One can presume, then, that none of the candidates found by the firm hired was of sufficient experience and ability to be considered in the same class as Ferguson.

You can teach an outstanding person to speak French. You can't teach an ordinary person who is bilingual to be outstanding. The appointment is for ten years. He'll be bilingual for nine of them. That's more than enough.

[Argus]

You know bilingual means you have to speak both languages right? Like, when someone from Quebec wants to be AG they need to speak English or if they want to be a Supreme Court Justice they need to speak English.

Bilingualism was designed specifically to placate Quebecers, yet they have rejected the very notion of bilingualism in their own province.

In fact, one of the promises made by the NDP is to ensure that French is predominant in all federal institutions in Quebec. Hitherto the federal government only ensured bilingualism within Quebec, but rejected the French supremacy nonsense. The NDP are clearly eager to make up for lost time in whoring to the nationalist vote.

[Argus]

and if the best candidate spoke only french?...let's be honest here we all we know that a unilingual francophone would never be considered for the job...

So what? Practically, 99% of the people he'll need to be dealing with are either English or are able to understand English. Comparatively few know or can understand French.

[Argus]

When the Auditor General investigates into a matter, they have interpreters go through all the documents involved and translate them into both languages?

The AG does not personally go through the papers. Teams of auditors and financial analysts go out and do interviews and check files, then they make reports which go up the ladder. The higher they go, the more likely they are to be bilingual.

[Argus]

dumb? an important federal position in a country that is officially bilingual not requiring the applicant to be bilingual is what is dumb...

If we required all senior people working for the federal government to be bilingual on application that would inevitably mean we would have to say that 99% of all senior people will be residents of Quebec, or a few small parts of Eastern Ontario and New Brunswick. We would be shutting out 98% of the population of Canada, and selecting those who should be our best from a very, very small population. It is unlikely this would result in us having the best people. In fact, the odds are 50-1 we would NOT get the best people.

Only a small percentage of Canadians outside Quebec are bilingual. And a much smaller percentage are actually fluent enough to be able to function in the other language at a high level involving complex technical discussions.

[Argus]

in government hiring optics is crucial you are not going to ignore a white supremacists if he/she has the right track record to be the auditor...hire the best person for the job who meets the requirements, one of those requirements in a bilingual country include speaking both languages...I can't accept there is not suitable bilingual candidate...do as mrs wywly does when she can't fill a position, repost the job until you do...

Here is what I'd do in the next election. I would have every conservative MP in British Columbia tell everyone they see that the Liberals and NDP have, as a matter of official policy, that no British Columbian can ever work at any high level in their own federal government. I would point out that the level of bilingualism the NDP insists must be a prerequisite for any federal position shuts out virtually all British Columbians - and indeed, virtually any western Canadian. I would hammer away on the fact the Liberals and NDP are disgusted by the notion that any British Columbian would be hired to do any important job for the federal government, and that, in whoring themselves to Quebec, those parties no longer have the best interests of British Columbians in mind. When BCs Supreme Court seat opens up, the NDP and Liberals will appoint a Quebecer to fill it, as they will every other senior federal job. I would hammer away at that in every meeting, and see how many seats the Libs and NDP lose in the West. The same strategy would work well in Alberta and Saskatchewan, as well as in Eastern Canada and most of Ontario, too.

[Argus]

The problem is that people need to be able to communicate in either language at the federal level, which means the federal bureaucracy needs to be bilingual whether the country itself is or not (it's not).

The problem is that the level of bilingualism required for senior and management jobs is so high that if you insist that all applicants have it then virtually all senior federal positions will be taken by Quebecers or Francophones from outside Quebec.

[Argus]

Having to be bilingual to work for the federal gov (necessary for most decent or advanceable fed jobs) is a joke, a complete discrimination to most Canadians. What kind of moronic country do we live in where the vast majority of Canadians (83% - only 17% are bilingual, over half living in Quebec) aren't even qualified to work for their federal government based on the language they speak?

The numbers for "bilingual" come from statistics Canada, which draws them from one question in the census. The census question asks people whether or not they could carry on a conversation in the other official language. Well, taxi drivers can do that. But is their broken English good enough to read through long, complex, technical documents? Nope. Would you want a person with broken English (or French) hearing your trial? Nope. Real fluency in the other language is rare, and includes the ability to read and write at a very high level - a question not asked in the census at all.

The vast, vast majority of such people are minorities within the majority. That is, Francophones living in parts of Ontario, Manitoba and New Brunswick, and Anglophones living in Quebec. Because of the massive English entertainment and business influence, mostly from the Americans, and because they are, in Canada, a minority, a lot of Quebec Francophones are also very good with English. So you are not talking about eliminating 83% of all candidates. It's more like 98%.

Virtually all management and executive level jobs would go to these groups under the Liberal/NDP demand for bilingualism-first employment.

Edited November 4, 2011 by Argus

[Shwa]

Why would you say that? I see no evidence. I would personally be fine with it.

Oh NOW you say you don't have "evidence?" I see. Did you realize this before or after you started a thread about the "Bigoted Liberal Part of Canada?"

[Smallc]

Oh NOW you say you don't have "evidence?"

Do you actually read the things that you respond to?

[Shwa]

If we required all senior people working for the federal government to be bilingual on application that would inevitably mean we would have to say that 99% of all senior people will be residents of Quebec, or a few small parts of Eastern Ontario and New Brunswick. We would be shutting out 98% of the population of Canada, and selecting those who should be our best from a very, very small population. It is unlikely this would result in us having the best people. In fact, the odds are 50-1 we would NOT get the best people.

Only a small percentage of Canadians outside Quebec are bilingual. And a much smaller percentage are actually fluent enough to be able to function in the other language at a high level involving complex technical discussions.

Once again, here is proof you don't know what you are talking about and usually just pull shit out of your ass.

English-French Bilingualism

Nationally, 43.4% of francophones reported that they were bilingual, compared with 9.0% of anglophones.

In 2001, these individuals represented 17.7% of the population, up from 17.0% in 1996.

And that was 10 years ago.

[Shwa]

Do you actually read the things that you respond to?

Absolutely, because my comment provides context to your comedy.

[wyly]

Harper is really doing a great job trying to get the Quebec votes for next election. What a moronic political maneuver.

Having to be bilingual to work for the federal gov (necessary for most decent or advanceable fed jobs) is a joke, a complete discrimination to most Canadians. What kind of moronic country do we live in where the vast majority of Canadians (83% - only 17% are bilingual, over half living in Quebec) aren't even qualified to work for their federal government based on the language they speak?

the majority of canadians 2/3s believe federal employees(and judges) should be bilingual despite the fact that most of them are not bilingual...

[wyly]

Not all of them though. I'm sure there are people in the Auditor General's office that are at least bilingual, if not some that are unilingual French.

you're missing the point the posted "essential" requirement for the job was being bilingual...it just isn't plausible that in the entire country there weren't others as qualified and bilingual... Edited November 4, 2011 by wyly