Shipbuilding contracts

[Smallc]

Sponsoring Department Department of National Defence (DND)

spon·sor

noun
1.

a person or organization that provides funds for a project or activity carried out by another, in particular.

verb
1.
provide funds for (a project or activity or the person carrying it out).

Edited December 6, 2015 by Smallc

[Derek 2.0]

Sponsoring Department Department of National Defence (DND)

spon·sor

noun

1.

a person or organization that provides funds for a project or activity carried out by another, in particular.

verb

1.

provide funds for (a project or activity or the person carrying it out).

Nope, I just provided the Government tender website, where all public tenders are listed by law..........and guess who is the procurement entity for items DND is seeking? Christ on a cracker, DND has to go through Public Works to contract out porta potties......

[Smallc]

Nope, I just provided the Government tender website, where all public tenders are listed by law..........and guess who is the procurement entity for items DND is seeking? Christ on a cracker, DND has to go through Public Works to contract out porta potties......

What are you even arguing? I'm not saying (nor have I ever said) that PWGS doesn't buy the products - I'm saying that they don't provide the funding. The funding is part of the DND (or whichever department) budget.

[Derek 2.0]

What are you even arguing? I'm not saying (nor have I ever said) that PWGS doesn't buy the products - I'm saying that they don't provide the funding. The funding is part of the DND (or whichever department) budget.

Yes, they do......the Receiver General writes all the cheques (figuratively) for the Government of Canada..........and the Receiver General is who?

[Smallc]

What I'm telling you is that the funding comes from the DND budget. I don't know why this is so hard to understand.

The money is part of the DND budget. The money is spent by PWGS. The same is true of every department.

Edited December 6, 2015 by Smallc

[On Guard for Thee]

Nope, I just provided the Government tender website, where all public tenders are listed by law..........and guess who is the procurement entity for items DND is seeking? Christ on a cracker, DND has to go through Public Works to contract out porta potties......

That would be fallout from how they mashed up the F 35 issue. The AG's report was pretty damning.

[Derek 2.0]

Okay, first of all, the Receiver General receives all money and pays it to the government.

Yes and issues all federal government cheques..........

Second, what I'm telling you is that the funding comes from the DND budget. I don't know why this is so hard to understand.

Simple, because it doesn't, as confirmed by DND's budget that I cited

The money is part of the DND budget. The money is spent by PWGS. The same is true of every department.

No it isn't........as already cited

[Smallc]

Yes and issues all federal government cheques..........

You're right - I should have known that, I see enough of them.

Simple, because it doesn't, as confirmed by DND's budget that I cited

Except that the link BC provided clearly shows that there is an operating and capital budget within the funding envelope. Go back and look.

No it isn't........as already cited

You need to read that link.

http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/hgw-cgf/finances/pgs-pdg/be-bd/nba-abn-eng.asp

[Derek 2.0]

Except that the link BC provided clearly shows that there is an operating and capital budget within the funding envelope. Go back and look

There is a procurement budget that DND has access to for items under 100000 dollars at purchase.

You need to read that link.

You need to read the law:

Every payment out of the Consolidated Revenue Fund shall be made under the direction and control of the Receiver General by the issuance of an instruction for payment, in such form and authenticated in such manner as the Treasury Board may direct.

[Smallc]

I don't think you're arguing the same thing. It's clear that PWGS (the minister of which is RGOC) purchases things. It's clear also, from a page found on your own link, that DND sponsors (provides funds for, as per the definition) procurements undertaken for it by PWGSC. It's not that difficult.

[Derek 2.0]

I don't think you're arguing the same thing. It's clear that PWGS (the minister of which is RGOC) purchases things. It's clear also, from a page found on your own link, that DND sponsors (provides funds for, as per the definition) procurements undertaken for it by PWGSC. It's not that difficult.

Nope........I've provided the agency that all public tenders go through, the same agency that is headed by the Receiver General of Canada, as I've provided the budget breakdown for this year from DND (the same link can also be used to examine previous budgets).............

Low and behold, not this year, or the year previous, were the funds to purchase the AOPS found inside the DND budget.......

So either Irving provided DND with zero down financing (and we've yet to make a payment) or "some other Government department" paid for the vessels.............likewise, looking at this year's budget, DND didn't have the money to pay for the interim AOR.......yet, "somehow", $89 million dollars were just approved and paid to Davie......perhaps DND held car washes and bake sales......or "some other Government department" paid said money to Davie.

It is clearly difficult for you.

[Smallc]

It's clear that you're not going to back away from your idea. I'll only encourage you to again go look at he approved expenditure chart laid out in the link provided by BC breaking down each departments budgets by their core elements.

Edited December 6, 2015 by Smallc

[Smallc]

In fact your own link proves you wrong. Note 1 under Budgetary Planning Summary for Strategic Outcomes and Programs and net increase and decrease explanations all refer to changes related to capital and equipment programs. Nothing supports your position.

[Derek 2.0]

In fact your own link proves you wrong. Note 1 under Budgetary Planning Summary for Strategic Outcomes and Programs and net increase and decrease explanations all refer to changes related to capital and equipment programs. Nothing supports your position.

Actually, no, it doesn't.........

The Materiel Acquisition Program aims to augment the defence materiel portfolio by delivering acquisition services for defence material, equipment, equipment fleets, and supporting elements. This Program is primarily focused on meeting Defence materiel capability needs to enable readiness training and employment of multi-purpose combat capable forces as well as other Defence services. Results are accomplished through the delivery of Major Capital Project, Minor Capital Project, and Minor Capital Equipment Project services. The Materiel Acquisition Program sustains Defence by directly enabling the Materiel Portfolio Management Program which in-turn provides the materiel elements of Defence capabilities for the Defence Ready Force Element Production Program, the Defence Services and Contributions to Government Program, and the Defence Capability Development and ResearchProgram.

A ~half billion annual budget to provide from everything from fuel, hotels, catered meals, charted bus & flights, contracted out repairs etc does not make a budget for procuring new warships

[Derek 2.0]

It's clear that you're not going to back away from your idea. I'll only encourage you to again go look at he approved expenditure chart laid out in the link provided by BC breaking down each departments budgets by their core elements.

You mean the chart that showed previous items procured on behalf of the DND by Public Works......including the contract for the AOPS?

[Argus]

So the US navy's newest ship arrived in Canada the other day on its maiden voyage. I wonder how the USS Milwaukee compares to the new frigates Canada is contemplating. It seems to cost an awful lot less, and I understand they are currently developing a larger, frigate version. Seems to me we could save a lot of time, money and aggravation by just putting in our order with them.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/new-littoral-combat-ship-uss-milwaukee-visits-halifax

[Smallc]

Actually, no, it doesn't.........

A ~half billion annual budget to provide from everything from fuel, hotels, catered meals, charted bus & flights, contracted out repairs etc does not make a budget for procuring new warships

It reflected a change of $512 million in capital, per note 1 on your original link. Edited December 6, 2015 by Smallc

[Smallc]

So the US navy's newest ship arrived in Canada the other day on its maiden voyage. I wonder how the USS Milwaukee compares to the new frigates Canada is contemplating. It seems to cost an awful lot less, and I understand they are currently developing a larger, frigate version. Seems to me we could save a lot of time, money and aggravation by just putting in our order with them.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/new-littoral-combat-ship-uss-milwaukee-visits-halifax

The LCS is overpriced for what it is. We'd be far better buying ships from France or Spain.

[bush_cheney2004]

The LCS is overpriced for what it is. We'd be far better buying ships from France or Spain.

Any surface combatant will be overpriced compared to one that does not exist.

[Smallc]

You mean the chart that showed previous items procured on behalf of the DND by Public Works......including the contract for the AOPS?

The chart showed an operating budget for DND of just over $13B per year and a capital budget of just under $13B per year.

[Derek 2.0]

It reflected a change of $512 million in capital, per note 1 on your original link.

In the overall defense budget...........remember when Harper destroyed the military but cutting its budget, resulting in ships, aircraft and trucks sitting idle?

Again, from the same link:

Support Public Works and Government Services Canada in the implementation of the Defence Procurement Strategy 47 to ensure defence procurement delivers the right equipment to the CAF, creates economic opportunities and jobs in Canada, and streamlines the defence procurement process.

[Derek 2.0]

The chart showed an operating budget for DND of just over $13B per year and a capital budget of just under $13B per year.

Ahh no..........and the Defence Acquisition Guide:

Stage 4 - Implementation. Implementation approval enables the Department of National Defence to have the contract awarded through Public Works and Government Services Canada.

Stage 5 - Close-Out. When a project reaches its full operational capability, it becomes a managed capability and no longer a project. The project approving authority will receive a final report during the Close-Out of each project.

I've provided the budget, the agency that awards public tenders, the DND material acquisition guide, the (previous) Government's defence acquisition guide and the law encompassing Government procurement..........

I'm going to ignore you now, since its obvious you're just attempting to troll/bait.

[Smallc]

You told me that the defence acquisition guide was outdated.

I have never - not once - said that DND awarded contracts. DND is where the money comes from. The evidence is there. It's not up to me to make you understand what a sponsoring department is, or how government works. It says so right in your bold underline, after all - have the contract awarded through. To have something done, you need to be able to pay for it.

The 2013 - 2014 year even has a handy procurement funding chart (Figure D)

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-reports-pubs-report-plan-priorities/2013-other-reports-plans-priorities.page

Edited December 6, 2015 by Smallc

[Derek 2.0]

Any surface combatant will be overpriced compared to one that does not exist.

Exactly, likewise any vessels procured from Canadian industry.

[Smallc]

Exactly, likewise any vessels procured from Canadian industry.

The LCS certainly doesn't meet what that Navy says we need - and what you agree we need.