Cross Border Policing (Urgent topic)

[jacee]

The world does not hate Americans...more choose to emigrate to America than to Canada...always have.

It's not about the American people of course, and olp is out of line in my opinion

It's about the American state.

First of all co-opting "American" when there are 35 countries and 23 territories in the Americas.

And then there's the tendency to meddle in the affairs of other countries around the world, propping up nasty dictators to protect corporate profits, and such. Quite a bit of the world does have a point.

And we are very small, outnumbered and outgunned, and we really don't want to be taken over by the US ... really ... reallyreallyreally,

Reallyreallyreallyreallyreally,

Do not want to be 'American'.

It's not 'an accident' that we're still here.

Really.

Edited October 3, 2011 by jacee

[Kanoe]

Just a comment on the numbers of immigrants to the US and to Canada.

Careful what you read into those numbers.

Canada accepts 'more immigrants per taxpayer' than the US does.

As a nation, a larger percentage of the Canadian budget is directed towards immigration than in the US.

We have 1/10th the population, yet we spend more per immigrant.

Because of our smaller economy, our acceptance process for immigrants that we allow into this country needs to be more selective.

[Kanoe]

Just ask Haiti, Iraq, Serbia, East Timor, Libya, etc

You'll need to provide us all with a little more detail. When Canada does involve itself in the affairs of other nations we

do so for humanitarian purposes and we are usually invited.

Canada is not an imperialistic nation and we do not mess with the affairs of other sovereign nations to further our own domestic interests.

The US on the other hand ........ DOES!

The following link is a brief history of the US's ongoing invasions of sovereign countries.

http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/interventions.html

Here's an extract from that list - For a complete history of the imperialistic nature of US foreign policy, you really should read some history ..........

1890 to the present, in chronological order.

SOUTH DAKOTA 1890 (-?) Troops 300 Lakota Indians massacred at Wounded Knee.

ARGENTINA 1890 Troops Buenos Aires interests protected.

CHILE 1891 Troops Marines clash with nationalist rebels.

HAITI 1891 Troops Black revolt on Navassa defeated.

IDAHO 1892 Troops Army suppresses silver miners' strike.

HAWAII 1893 (-?) Naval, troops Independent kingdom overthrown, annexed.

CHICAGO 1894 Troops Breaking of rail strike, 34 killed.

NICARAGUA 1894 Troops Month-long occupation of Bluefields.

CHINA 1894-95 Naval, troops Marines land in Sino-Japanese War

KOREA 1894-96 Troops Marines kept in Seoul during war.

PANAMA 1895 Troops, naval Marines land in Colombian province.

NICARAGUA 1896 Troops Marines land in port of Corinto.

CHINA 1898-1900 Troops Boxer Rebellion fought by foreign armies.

PHILIPPINES 1898-1910 (-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, killed 600,000 Filipinos

CUBA 1898-1902 (-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, still hold Navy base.

PUERTO RICO 1898 (-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, occupation continues.

GUAM 1898 (-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, still use as base.

MINNESOTA 1898 (-?) Troops Army battles Chippewa at Leech Lake.

NICARAGUA 1898 Troops Marines land at port of San Juan del Sur.

SAMOA 1899 (-?) Troops Battle over succession to throne.

NICARAGUA 1899 Troops Marines land at port of Bluefields.

IDAHO 1899-1901 Troops Army occupies Coeur d'Alene mining region.

OKLAHOMA 1901 Troops Army battles Creek Indian revolt.

PANAMA 1901-14 Naval, troops Broke off from Colombia 1903, annexed Canal Zone; Opened canal 1914.

HONDURAS 1903 Troops Marines intervene in revolution.

DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1903-04 Troops U.S. interests protected in Revolution.

KOREA 1904-05 Troops Marines land in Russo-Japanese War.

CUBA 1906-09 Troops Marines land in democratic election.

NICARAGUA 1907 Troops "Dollar Diplomacy" protectorate set up.

HONDURAS 1907 Troops Marines land during war with Nicaragua

PANAMA 1908 Troops Marines intervene in election contest.

NICARAGUA 1910 Troops Marines land in Bluefields and Corinto.

HONDURAS 1911 Troops U.S. interests protected in civil war.

CHINA 1911-41 Naval, troops Continuous occupation with flare-ups.

CUBA 1912 Troops U.S. interests protected in civil war.

PANAMA 1912 Troops Marines land during heated election.

HONDURAS 1912 Troops Marines protect U.S. economic interests.

NICARAGUA 1912-33 Troops, bombing 10-year occupation, fought guerillas

MEXICO 1913 Naval Americans evacuated during revolution.

DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1914 Naval Fight with rebels over Santo Domingo.

COLORADO 1914 Troops Breaking of miners' strike by Army.

MEXICO 1914-18 Naval, troops Series of interventions against nationalists.

HAITI 1914-34 Troops, bombing 19-year occupation after revolts.

TEXAS 1915 Troops Federal soldiers crush "Plan of San Diego" Mexican-American rebellion

DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1916-24 Troops 8-year Marine occupation.

CUBA 1917-33 Troops Military occupation, economic protectorate.

WORLD WAR I 1917-18 Naval, troops Ships sunk, fought Germany for 1 1/2 years.

RUSSIA 1918-22 Naval, troops Five landings to fight Bolsheviks

PANAMA 1918-20 Troops "Police duty" during unrest after elections.

HONDURAS 1919 Troops Marines land during election campaign.

YUGOSLAVIA 1919 Troops/Marines intervene for Italy against Serbs in Dalmatia.

GUATEMALA 1920 Troops 2-week intervention against unionists.

WEST VIRGINIA 1920-21 Troops, bombing Army intervenes against mineworkers.

TURKEY 1922 Troops Fought nationalists in Smyrna.

CHINA 1922-27 Naval, troops Deployment during nationalist revolt.

MEXICO

HONDURAS

1923

1924-25

Bombing

Troops

Airpower defends Calles from rebellion

Landed twice during election strife.

PANAMA 1925 Troops Marines suppress general strike.

CHINA 1927-34 Troops Marines stationed throughout the country.

EL SALVADOR 1932 Naval Warships send during Marti revolt.

WASHINGTON DC 1932 Troops Army stops WWI vet bonus protest.

WORLD WAR II 1941-45 Naval, troops, bombing, nuclear Hawaii bombed, fought Japan, Italy and Germay for 3 years; first nuclear war.

DETROIT 1943 Troops Army put down Black rebellion.

IRAN 1946 Nuclear threat Soviet troops told to leave north.

YUGOSLAVIA 1946 Nuclear threat, naval Response to shoot-down of US plane.

URUGUAY 1947 Nuclear threat Bombers deployed as show of strength.

GREECE 1947-49 Command operation U.S. directs extreme-right in civil war.

GERMANY 1948 Nuclear Threat Atomic-capable bombers guard Berlin Airlift.

CHINA 1948-49 Troops/Marines evacuate Americans before Communist victory.

PHILIPPINES 1948-54 Command operation CIA directs war against Huk Rebellion.

PUERTO RICO 1950 Command operation Independence rebellion crushed in Ponce.

KOREA 1951-53 (-?) Troops, naval, bombing , nuclear threats U.S./So. Korea fights China/No. Korea to stalemate; A-bomb threat in 1950, and against China in 1953. Still have bases.

IRAN 1953 Command Operation CIA overthrows democracy, installs Shah.

VIETNAM 1954 Nuclear threat French offered bombs to use against seige.

GUATEMALA 1954 Command operation, bombing, nuclear threat CIA directs exile invasion after new gov't nationalized U.S. company lands; bombers based in Nicaragua.

EGYPT 1956 Nuclear threat, troops Soviets told to keep out of Suez crisis; Marines evacuate foreigners.

LEBANON l958 Troops, naval Army & Marine occupation against rebels.

IRAQ 1958 Nuclear threat Iraq warned against invading Kuwait.

CHINA l958 Nuclear threat China told not to move on Taiwan isles.

PANAMA 1958 Troops Flag protests erupt into confrontation.

VIETNAM l960-75 Troops, naval, bombing, nuclear threats Fought South Vietnam revolt & North Vietnam; one million killed in longest U.S. war; atomic bomb threats in l968 and l969.

CUBA l961 Command operation CIA-directed exile invasion fails.

GERMANY l961 Nuclear threat Alert during Berlin Wall crisis.

LAOS 1962 Command operation Military buildup during guerrilla war.

CUBA l962 Nuclear threat, naval Blockade during missile crisis; near-war with Soviet Union.

IRAQ 1963 Command operation CIA organizes coup that killed president, brings Ba'ath Party to power, and Saddam Hussein back from exile to be head of the secret service.

PANAMA l964 Troops Panamanians shot for urging canal's return.

INDONESIA l965 Command operation Million killed in CIA-assisted army coup.

DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1965-66 Troops, bombing Army & Marines land during election campaign.

GUATEMALA l966-67 Command operation Green Berets intervene against rebels.

DETROIT l967 Troops Army battles African Americans, 43 killed.

UNITED STATES l968 Troops After King is shot; over 21,000 soldiers in cities.

CAMBODIA l969-75 Bombing, troops, naval Up to 2 million killed in decade of bombing, starvation, and political chaos.

OMAN l970 Command operation U.S. directs Iranian marine invasion.

LAOS l971-73 Command operation, bombing U.S. directs South Vietnamese invasion; "carpet-bombs" countryside.

SOUTH DAKOTA l973 Command operation Army directs Wounded Knee siege of Lakotas.

MIDEAST 1973 Nuclear threat World-wide alert during Mideast War.

CHILE 1973 Command operation CIA-backed coup ousts elected marxist president.

CAMBODIA l975 Troops, bombing Gassing of captured ship Mayagüez, 28 troops die when copter shot down.

ANGOLA l976-92 Command operation CIA assists South African-backed rebels.

IRAN l980 Troops, nuclear threat, aborted bombing Raid to rescue Embassy hostages; 8 troops die in copter-plane crash. Soviets warned not to get involved in revolution.

LIBYA l981 Naval jets Two Libyan jets shot down in maneuvers.

EL SALVADOR l981-92 Command operation, troops Advisors, overflights aid anti-rebel war, soldiers briefly involved in hostage clash.

NICARAGUA l981-90 Command operation, naval CIA directs exile (Contra) invasions, plants harbor mines against revolution.

LEBANON l982-84 Naval, bombing, troops Marines expel PLO and back Phalangists, Navy bombs and shells Muslim positions. 241 Marines killed when Shi'a rebel bombs barracks.

GRENADA l983-84 Troops, bombing Invasion four years after revolution.

HONDURAS l983-89 Troops Maneuvers help build bases near borders.

IRAN l984 Jets Two Iranian jets shot down over Persian Gulf.

LIBYA l986 Bombing, naval Air strikes to topple nationalist gov't.

BOLIVIA 1986 Troops Army assists raids on cocaine region.

IRAN l987-88 Naval, bombing US intervenes on side of Iraq in war.

LIBYA 1989 Naval jets Two Libyan jets shot down.

VIRGIN ISLANDS 1989 Troops St. Croix Black unrest after storm.

PHILIPPINES 1989 Jets Air cover provided for government against coup.

PANAMA 1989 (-?) Troops, bombing Nationalist government ousted by 27,000 soldiers, leaders arrested, 2000+ killed.

LIBERIA 1990 Troops Foreigners evacuated during civil war.

SAUDI ARABIA 1990-91 Troops, jets Iraq countered after invading Kuwait. 540,000 troops also stationed in Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Israel.

IRAQ 1990-91 Bombing, troops, naval Blockade of Iraqi and Jordanian ports, air strikes; 200,000+ killed in invasion of Iraq and Kuwait; large-scale destruction of Iraqi military.

KUWAIT 1991 Naval, bombing, troops Kuwait royal family returned to throne.

IRAQ 1991-2003 Bombing, naval No-fly zone over Kurdish north, Shiite south; constant air strikes and naval-enforced economic sanctions

LOS ANGELES 1992 Troops Army, Marines deployed against anti-police uprising.

SOMALIA 1992-94 Troops, naval, bombing U.S.-led United Nations occupation during civil war; raids against one Mogadishu faction.

YUGOSLAVIA 1992-94 Naval NATO blockade of Serbia and Montenegro.

BOSNIA 1993-? Jets, bombing No-fly zone patrolled in civil war; downed jets, bombed Serbs.

HAITI 1994 Troops, naval Blockade against military government; troops restore President Aristide to office three years after coup.

ZAIRE (CONGO) 1996-97 Troops Troops at Rwandan Hutu refugee camps, in area where Congo revolution begins.

LIBERIA 1997 Troops Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners.

ALBANIA 1997 Troops Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners.

SUDAN 1998 Missiles Attack on pharmaceutical plant alleged to be "terrorist" nerve gas plant.

AFGHANISTAN 1998 Missiles Attack on former CIA training camps used by Islamic fundamentalist groups alleged to have attacked embassies.

IRAQ 1998 Bombing, Missiles Four days of intensive air strikes after weapons inspectors allege Iraqi obstructions.

YUGOSLAVIA 1999 Bombing, Missiles Heavy NATO air strikes after Serbia declines to withdraw from Kosovo. NATO occupation of Kosovo.

YEMEN 2000 Naval USS Cole, docked in Aden, bombed.

MACEDONIA 2001 Troops NATO forces deployed to move and disarm Albanian rebels.

UNITED STATES 2001 Jets, naval Reaction to hijacker attacks on New York, DC

AFGHANISTAN 2001-? Troops, bombing, missiles Massive U.S. mobilization to overthrow Taliban, hunt Al Qaeda fighters, install Karzai regime, and battle Taliban insurgency. More than 30,000 U.S. troops and numerous private security contractors carry our occupation.

YEMEN 2002 Missiles Predator drone missile attack on Al Qaeda, including a US citizen.

PHILIPPINES 2002-? Troops, naval Training mission for Philippine military fighting Abu Sayyaf rebels evolves into combat missions in Sulu Archipelago, west of Mindanao.

COLOMBIA 2003-? Troops US special forces sent to rebel zone to back up Colombian military protecting oil pipeline.

IRAQ 2003-? Troops, naval, bombing, missiles Saddam regime toppled in Baghdad. More than 250,000 U.S. personnel participate in invasion. US and UK forces occupy country and battle Sunni and Shi'ite insurgencies. More than 160,000 troops and numerous private contractors carry out occupation and build large permanent bases.

LIBERIA 2003 Troops Brief involvement in peacekeeping force as rebels drove out leader.

HAITI 2004-05 Troops, naval Marines & Army land after right-wing rebels oust elected President Aristide, who was advised to leave by Washington.

PAKISTAN 2005-? Missiles, bombing, covert operation CIA missile and air strikes and Special Forces raids on alleged Al Qaeda and Taliban refuge villages kill multiple civilians. Drone attacks also on Pakistani Mehsud network.

SOMALIA 2006-? Missiles, naval, troops, command operation Special Forces advise Ethiopian invasion that topples Islamist government; AC-130 strikes, Cruise missile attacks and helicopter raids against Islamist rebels; naval blockade against "pirates" and insurgents.

SYRIA 2008 Troops Special Forces in helicopter raid 5 miles from Iraq kill 8 Syrian civilians

YEMEN 2009-? Missiles, command operation Cruise missile attack on Al Qaeda kills 49 civilians; Yemeni military assaults on rebels

LIBYA 2011-? Bombing, missiles, command operation NATO coordinates air strikes and missile attacks against Qaddafi government during uprising by rebel army.

Comments ???

[bush_cheney2004]

Just ask Haiti, Iraq, Serbia, East Timor, Libya, etc

You'll need to provide us all with a little more detail. When Canada does involve itself in the affairs of other nations we

do so for humanitarian purposes and we are usually invited.

Was Canada invited by Haiti's democratically elected president to be kidnapped and exiled? Did Libya invite Canada to bomb its citizens for "humanitarian purposes"? Did Serbia invite Canada to drop over 500 bombs as an international favor? Did Iraq beg Canada to bomb its surrendering forces during the first Gulf War? Was Canada attacked prior to participation in Boer Wars, WWI, WW2, or Korean Conflict?

You are either purposely ignoring Canada's complicity in such things or totally ignorant of these and other actions by Canada or Canadian companies in other nations around the world (e.g. mining).

Edited October 3, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

[bush_cheney2004]

It's not about the American people of course, and olp is out of line in my opinion

It's about the American state.

Yeah...we get a lot of that, but there are constant references and dependencies on the product(s) of the American state evidenced right here, from bitching over climate change with data from NASA to the very backbone of the Internet itself. Much of American R&D is funded by the "American state", and we have more Nobel prizes to prove it....Canada doesn't.

And then there's the tendency to meddle in the affairs of other countries around the world, propping up nasty dictators to protect corporate profits, and such. Quite a bit of the world does have a point.

You mean like PM Martin hob knobbing with Ghadaffi in his tent to secure oil services contracts?

And we are very small, outnumbered and outgunned, and we really don't want to be taken over by the US ... really ... reallyreallyreally,

Reallyreallyreallyreallyreally,

Do not want to be 'American'.

It's not 'an accident' that we're still here.

Really.

That's funny, because for all the hatred for America it is odd how much of it you rely on each day and incorporate into your own culture, from media to your satellite weather maps....from excess health care capacity to defense treaties and products....from dry goods to fresh produce...and even to the point of giving up domestic voting rights to a chance to vote for an American president (15% of polled Canadians - 2008).

It is also odd that some Canadian haters would bristle at draconian US border security measures...why would they want to enter such a terrible country to begin with? Stay home....it's what you preach to us, right?

Edited October 3, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

[Kanoe]

When Canada does involve itself in the affairs of other nations we do so for humanitarian purposes and we are usually invited.

Canada is not an imperialistic nation and we do not mess with the affairs of other sovereign nations to further our own domestic interests.

Guess you should read what I said once more. I'm not being self-righeous here.

What is implied, is that Canada's interests and involvement in the affairs of other countries are humanitarian and are not

carried out for imperialistic or economic gains. Our history on the world stage proves us out.

Look at your own history for gawd sakes!

I feel sorry for the average American, actually ... their government has bamboozled them. Trillions of dollars spent on foreign wars and many of your citizens live under Third world conditions. The foreign policy of the US government has ruined your reputation on the international stage and it has delivered terrorism to your front door.

On another note ....... we were attacked before the Boer Wars etc ....... by the US in the War of 1812. In addition to that and the Fenian Raids, it's the only time that I am aware of in our history that we have been invaded. (I think maybe, a German U boat may have fired a torpedo or two at St Johns NFLD, but thay may not be true.) Coincidentally, we beat you back both times. In both cases, the US was the agressor.

you rely on each day and incorporate into your own culture, from media to your satellite weather maps....from excess health care capacity to defense treaties and products....from dry goods to fresh produce...and even to the point of giving up domestic voting rights to a chance to vote for an American president (15% of polled Canadians - 2008).

A lot of this is actually quite funny ....... I'm not even sure what the inferences are ??

First of all, I have travelled to every Canadian Province and Territory , including the Arctic, several times. I have also visited 42 of the US States. I have a pretty good perspective on how different our 2 cultures really are. We have our own TV and radio reporting networks up here ..... we have a federal government department called Environment Canada which provides us with daily weather forecasts that are a combination of our own weather models combined with those of other weather bureaus throughout the world ....... WE supply YOU with 70% of your import needs .... WE are YOUR largest supplier of oil and in some regions of YOUR country, WE are YOUR largest supplier of electricity .... YOU need OUR resources, not the other way around.

Thankfully, our government is actively pursuing other foreign trading partners in an effort to supplant the skewed trading relationship we have with the US. The US has a habit of breaking the rules of just too many international agreements .... think NAFTA, softwood lumber, BC salmon industry, Porcupine Caribou herd migration etc etc

I have to respond to your election comment, because it was actually the most comical and used totally out of context. It's true, what you say, but I believe the numbers were even higher. First of all, Canadians were NOT willing to give up voting in their own election, they wanted an additional vote. Some Canadians thought 'it would be neat' to vote Bush out and thought we should maybe be given the right - we just about tricked you too. Canada, was, like most other nations in the world, simply outraged by the record and actions of the Bush administration.

I need to add some clarifying comments here ...........

I don't for one minute believe that the Canadian government has not made mistakes when dealing with foreign governments, but for the most part, our history has been quite different than that of the US. As A Canadian I am quite aware of the failings of my government. Americans on the other hand, are seemingly blinded by the outrageous history their government has as a warmonger worldwide. They seem willing to accept it and even defend it ... I find that astonishing.

Most Americans, like to think that we are quite a lot like them, but most Canadians would disagree. If you start to look closely at our form of government, to all of our institutions and to our history of development you would recognize a lot of very dramatic differences. It has been said that Canada is more favourably compared to the Scandinavian countries than to the US. We share similar social programs, standard of living and quality of life.

I happen to like Americans .......

I have relatives and friends down south ... I've had similar conversations with all of them. There is a move afoot down there, they tell me ....... a lot of Americans are beginning to realize that maybe their foreign policy isn't all that benevolent after all ... maybe the trillions they spend on guns and bullets would be better spent at home ... maybe they have been stickin their noses into other people's business for too long.

... but, I sure don't like American foreign policy. I blame it directly for a lot of the terrorism problems that the whole world is presently faced with.

Edited October 3, 2011 by Kanoe

[bush_cheney2004]

Canada is not an imperialistic nation and we do not mess with the affairs of other sovereign nations to further our own domestic interests.[/i]

This is patently false....Canada does "mess with" other sovereign nations for its own interests.

Guess you should read what I said once more. I'm not being self-righeous here.

What is implied, is that Canada's interests and involvement in the affairs of other countries are humanitarian and are not

carried out for imperialistic or economic gains. Our history on the world stage proves us out.

You are being self righteous...Canada's economic interests around the world are supported by your government in ways you refuse to acknowledge, even if under the guise of "humanitarian interests" or (my favorite)....the "Responsibility to Protect".

Look at your own history for gawd sakes!

Unlike you, I acknowledge and embrace my country's role in such matters in the pursuit of American interests. You refuse to do this.

I feel sorry for the average American, actually ... their government has bamboozled them. Trillions of dollars spent on foreign wars and many of your citizens live under Third world conditions. The foreign policy of the US government has ruined your reputation on the international stage and it has delivered terrorism to your front door.

You are being inconsistent....how can my nation's reputation be "ruined" if it was already engaged in such foreign interventions from the very beginning? Terrorism has existed in the US since at least the 1850's.

On another note ....... we were attacked before the Boer Wars etc ....... by the US in the War of 1812. In addition to that and the Fenian Raids, it's the only time that I am aware of in our history that we have been invaded. (I think maybe, a German U boat may have fired a torpedo or two at St Johns NFLD, but thay may not be true.) Coincidentally, we beat you back both times. In both cases, the US was the agressor.

You missed the point entirely...Canada's many foreign interventions were without any direct cause or response save for king/queen and furthering the intersts of the former British Empire. To divorce your nation's complicity in such things reveals a purposeful naivete and denial. Also, see the Caroline Affair.

A lot of this is actually quite funny ....... I'm not even sure what the inferences are ??

The inferences are that even while you spew your hatred for America's policies, you consistently import and consume all manner of products and services from the United States in the largest trading partnership the world has ever known. More Canadians emigrate to the USA than do Americans going north, and the US has ten times the population.

....WE supply YOU with 70% of your import needs .... WE are YOUR largest supplier of oil and in some regions of YOUR country, WE are YOUR largest supplier of electricity .... YOU need OUR resources, not the other way around.

Your oil resources were largely developed with American capital and extraction technology (e.g. Sun Oil). You lack the capability to transport, refine, or distribute the bulk of oil exported to the USA, and in fact import finished distillate product back into Canada. Your weather satellite data is completely dependent on US resources. You lack slaughterhouse capacity for meat packing of domestic beef and pork. American media is so pervasive in Canada you ahve erected CanCon barriers in a futile attempt to protect your culture even as US media is consumed by many Canadians.

Thankfully, our government is actively pursuing other foreign trading partners in an effort to supplant the skewed trading relationship we have with the US. The US has a habit of breaking the rules of just too many international agreements .... think NAFTA, softwood lumber, BC salmon industry, Porcupine Caribou herd migration etc etc

True, but money talks and bullshit walks. We know what you are, now all we have to do is negotiate the price.

I have to respond to your election comment, because it was actually the most comical and used totally out of context. It's true, what you say, but I believe the numbers were even higher. First of all, Canadians were NOT willing to give up voting in their own election, they wanted an additional vote. Some Canadians thought 'it would be neat' to vote Bush out and thought we should maybe be given the right - we just about tricked you too. Canada, was, like most other nations in the world, simply outraged by the record and actions of the Bush administration.

No, I was right about giving up the domestic vote acording to the CBC story. It is unfathomable to me that a Canadian national would sacrifice a voting right just to participate in an American federal election. It speaks volumes about perceived impotence, lack of identity, and intervention in another nations' affairs, the very thing you criticize. That is what's comical.

Edited October 3, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

[Oleg Bach]

Was Canada invited by Haiti's democratically elected president to be kidnapped and exiled? Did Libya invite Canada to bomb its citizens for "humanitarian purposes"? Did Serbia invite Canada to drop over 500 bombs as an international favor? Did Iraq beg Canada to bomb its surrendering forces during the first Gulf War? Was Canada attacked prior to participation in Boer Wars, WWI, WW2, or Korean Conflict?

You are either purposely ignoring Canada's complicity in such things or totally ignorant of these and other actions by Canada or Canadian companies in other nations around the world (e.g. mining).

Dear old Dad who served at the Kremlin said..."there are no good guys" - in the early stages of the internet when there was no editing ---you could look up high rolling respectable Canadian families and you would see the spoked graph...in the bottom in tiny letters would be these words.............."war supplies" - They are all rats..but not publically of course.

[bush_cheney2004]

....They are all rats..but not publically of course.

Indeed...the world needs rats, but some people refuse to admit it. Pretending the rats don't exit or only reside in another place will not make them go away.

[Oleg Bach]

Indeed...the world needs rats, but some people refuse to admit it. Pretending the rats don't exit or only reside in another place will not make them go away.

Rats and king rats eat - our garbage and make good use of it...In every hollow in every wall, in every building resides a rat - in the slum - in the bank tower.... People like to dream that their world is good and pure - that wealth is generated through ethical means..That they can look up to the highly successful and say - the person is good and to be emulated - the fact is evil is part of the game - to gather wealth into a large pile - a pile else where has to be deminished - it`s phyisic..and evil is in existance....AND is also a creation of the all mighty God...after all the all mighty is all powerful and he made the positive as well as the negative.

[Kanoe]

Unlike you, I acknowledge and embrace my country's role in such matters in the pursuit of American interests. You refuse to do this

I wouldn't be proud of that. Problem is American interests quite often cost someone else something they are not willing to give up ... no benevolence or higher good there.

'You are being inconsistent....how can my nation's reputation be "ruined" if it was already engaged in such foreign interventions from the very beginning? Terrorism has existed in the US since at least the 1850's.

But, your nation's reputation is ruined ........... can't you see that? Violence has existed in the US since the very beginning. Your nation was founded on violence .... from the Indian Wars, to the Civil War to the invasion of Mexico, to the attempted invasion of Canada ....... and all the way up to the present day ...... it's all about wars and violence. No other nation in the history of the world has the reputation for imperialistic pursuits that the US does ....... not the Romans, not Germany, not the Soviets

Canada's many foreign interventions were without any direct cause or response save for king/queen and furthering the intersts of the former British Empire

Canada's many foreign interventions were in defense of our quality of life in response to agression from other nations in support of the British Empire. I would call that a very direct cause and much more honourable than an economic pursuit at some other nations cost!

More Canadians emigrate to the USA than do Americans going north, and the US has ten times the population.

Well, you may be right, I'd need to see the stats - but, DO THEY STAY? An intersting study by Macleans magazine indicated that Canadians emigrate to the US primarily for jobs in certain fields (high tech usually), but once the jobs are complete, they return home to retire. Americans on the other hand, emigrate to Canada, primarily for the higher quality of life (less crime, better social programs, fewer guns, better beer ) and they usually stay.

Your weather satellite data is completely dependent on US resources.

No this is wrong. As I said, Environment Canada utilizes a number of domestic models and international models, including the US, but also European, Chinese and Japanese satellites to predict weather in this country. This is not unusual in the science of weather prediction - most countries share this information and most rely on it.

Your oil resources were largely developed with American capital and extraction technology

Most nations encourage foreign investment. The US, in the year 2011 had the greatest amount of foreign investment on earth. Does this mean you need more support than the rest of us. This industry is a two way street - you have a greater reliance on us,than we do on you. The majority of your energy needs are supplied by us ...... oil, natural gas, electricity.

From Government of Canada website:

Canadian oil companies are major investors in the U.S. petroleum industry, providing jobs and income for Americans. Similarily, U.S. firms are significant investors, producers and developers of new technology in Canada’s oil sector.

No, I was right about giving up the domestic vote acording to the CBC story. It is unfathomable to me that a Canadian national would sacrifice a voting right just to participate in an American federal election.

Canadians, really, really ... really, really didn't want to trade their vote, it was just our way of trying to indicate to the American public how important 'getting rid of Bush and a Republican government' was. Didn't work though - you still have your Republican government and your problems.

And now China owns you, you are in debt for trillions, your real estate is worthless, third world conditions exit in numerous places in many states , but you still have the world's most powerful military ... kinda ironic eh!

[bush_cheney2004]

I wouldn't be proud of that. Problem is American interests quite often cost someone else something they are not willing to give up ... no benevolence or higher good there.

Yes and no...America's interests are quite varied and include humanitarian aid on a scale that Canada cannot begin to match. I am "proud" of all...good or bad...and certainly don't ignore those motivated for self interest the way you do for Canada.

But, your nation's reputation is ruined ........... can't you see that?

Again, you are being inconsistent. What "reputation", as America is the same as it ever was. Being loved by the rest of the world is a Canadian value and delusion, not America's.

Canada's many foreign interventions were in defense of our quality of life in response to agression from other nations in support of the British Empire. I would call that a very direct cause and much more honourable than an economic pursuit at some other nations cost!

So you admit that Canada has executed interventionist policies on behalf of the "imperialist" British Empire, and in fact only exists because of such imperialism. Your monarch remains to this day as a "queen" of the commonwealth.

Well, you may be right, I'd need to see the stats - but, DO THEY STAY? An intersting study by Macleans magazine indicated that Canadians emigrate to the US primarily for jobs in certain fields (high tech usually), but once the jobs are complete, they return home to retire. Americans on the other hand, emigrate to Canada, primarily for the higher quality of life (less crime, better social programs, fewer guns, better beer ) and they usually stay.

Doesn't matter, the fact is that many Canadians, and millions of other nationals, do go to America for better/more opportunities, better higher ed institutions, lower taxes, better health care, etc. This directly contradicts any notion that America is hated by the world. America's population is ten times that of Canada's for very specific reasons....it is not just the weather.

Today a Canadian shared in the Nobel Prize award for physiology, but he did his research in....the USA.

No this is wrong. As I said, Environment Canada utilizes a number of domestic models and international models, including the US, but also European, Chinese and Japanese satellites to predict weather in this country. This is not unusual in the science of weather prediction - most countries share this information and most rely on it.

Nice dodge...Environment Canada specifically references American satellite resources on its web site, and NOAA is clearly visible on the imagery templates. Canada is far more dependent on US spaced based infrastructure than the other way around, simply because Canada doesn't have as much to offer.

Most nations encourage foreign investment. The US, in the year 2011 had the greatest amount of foreign investment on earth. Does this mean you need more support than the rest of us. This industry is a two way street - you have a greater reliance on us,than we do on you. The majority of your energy needs are supplied by us ...... oil, natural gas, electricity.

This is false....Canada is only one of many energy suppliers to the US, and Canada is not the majority (>50%). The US purposely maintains a diverse supplier base.

Canadians, really, really ... really, really didn't want to trade their vote, it was just our way of trying to indicate to the American public how important 'getting rid of Bush and a Republican government' was. Didn't work though - you still have your Republican government and your problems.

Then why did 15% of the polled Canadians indicate otherwise? Of course it didn't work...we know damn well that Canadians would resent any such attempt by American voters to influence your elections in such a way. Canadians who feel so strongly just do the logical thing and become American citizens....hundreds of thousands have and still do for lots of reasons.

And now China owns you, you are in debt for trillions, your real estate is worthless, third world conditions exit in numerous places in many states , but you still have the world's most powerful military ... kinda ironic eh!

That's OK...we still own Canada...you don't have a domestic car make (unlike smaller nations that do...you watch American television and films...you use the American invented internet, search engines, personal computers, and YouTube.....this very web site is hosted in America and runs on an American forum engine. Yea...America really sucks...LOL!

[Kanoe]

Yes and no...America's interests are quite varied and include humanitarian aid on a scale that Canada cannot begin to match. I am "proud" of all...good or bad...and certainly don't ignore those motivated for self interest the way you do for Canada.

Careful how you interpret numbers. On a per capita basis, Canadians give more towards humanitarian aid than Americans do. Individually, we are charitable on a scale that the USA cannot begin to match.

Being loved by the rest of the world is a Canadian value and delusion, not America's.

But, it should be, shoudn't it?

So you admit that Canada has executed interventionist policies on behalf of the "imperialist" British Empire, and in fact only exists because of such imperialism. Your monarch remains to this day as a "queen" of the commonwealth

Nope. During WWI, After Germany invaded France through Belgium, Britain and therfore Canada were drawn into the war in an act of nationalism, not imperialism. During WWII, once again Canada, fought as a membetr of the British Commonwealth against an agressor. No imperialistic motives, certainly no economic benefits - economies suffered greatly - purely defense of a way of life.

better/more opportunities, better higher ed institutions, lower taxes, better health care, etc

Nope. I'll give you the 'more opportunities' comment - the US does have a larger economy, so I can't argue that. Canadian higher education ranks as some of the best in the world - lots of foreigners attend our Colleges and Universities and our graduatea consistently rank high in international competitions. Yes our taxes are marginally higher, about 5% by the latest survey, but our disposable income is higher than the average American. Check it out yourself - your government maintains the same stats. As far as health care goes, well there has to be a reason why the US is looking to the Canadian model to create a better health care system, doesn't there? We have a problem with Americans coming over the border into Southern Ontario to buy cheaper medication and using health cards for hospital visits, obtaining laser surgery not available in the States --- geez, recently one of your actors, Mike Douglas was up in Montreal getting cancer treatments for a problem that was missed down your way at that Mayo clinic.

Nice dodge...Environment Canada specifically references American satellite resources on its web site, and NOAA is clearly visible on the imagery templates.

Once again, you are wrong. I didn't say it didn't. You said that NOAA was the sole provider and they are not. Once again, Canadian weather reporting relies on Canadian, European, Chinese, Japanese and American technologies and data to create it's weather models ..... an approach that many countries worldwide use.

Most nations encourage foreign investment. The US, in the year 2011 had the greatest amount of foreign investment on earth. Does this mean you need more support than the rest of us. This industry is a two way street - you have a greater reliance on us,than we do on you.

You didn't really respond to my main point. You tried to infer in your previous comment that Canada was somehow indebted to the US, because without your investment in our energy sector we wouldn't have the industry we now have. The question I put to you is does the US, by it's 'largest in the world foreign investment assistance package', by extension, not have the same industrial climate?? Come on ....... all nations do this! Foreign investment is often necessary. For every skill you think only the US is capable of providing to Canadians, I can show you a skill that I believe only Canadians can provide for Americans. It's a no win argument.

That's OK...we still own Canada...you don't have a domestic car make (unlike smaller nations that do...you watch American television and films...you use the American invented internet, search engines, personal computers, and YouTube.....this very web site is hosted in America and runs on an American forum engine.

Well you are our largrest foreign investor, but I wouldn't classify that as ownership. The Chinese on the other hand, do own you. Their banks have your economy by the proverbial short hairs. Canada is the single largest foreign supplier of energy to the United States--providing 20% of U.S. oil imports and 18% of U.S. natural gas imports. Canada is the leading export market for 35 of the 50 U.S. states and is a larger market for U.S. goods than all 27 countries of the European Union. Check out domestic car manufacturing in North America sometime. Canadian plants consitently perform higher than American plants when turning out new vehicles for Ford, GM and Chrysler. A lot of hollywood, nashville and memphis can thank the talents of Canadians for contributing to your TV and recording arts industry. All your funniest comedians are Canadian. As far as your American TV programming goes - you won't find many sitcoms, game shows or reality shows whose ideas weren't first shown on British, Australian or Japanees TV first - you stole most of your programming - those weren't American ideas first.

Thanks for the internet.

[Kanoe]

And speaking of Nobel Prize winners ... only because you brought this up earlier. I would expect the US to have produced more because you are 10x larger afterall. What's interesting is that a very large percentage of the 300 and some winners from the US an inordinantly high percentage are originally from other countries - not many born Americans on the list. Canada on the other hand, produced and understandably smaller number given our lower population, but most were born in Canada.

I don't really know what point you were trying to make when you mentioned this, but just thought I should respond.

Just a thought!

[Guest American Woman]

... a very large percentage of the 300 and some winners from the US an inordinantly high percentage are originally from other countries - not many born Americans on the list. Canada on the other hand, produced and understandably smaller number given our lower population, but most were born in Canada.

I don't really know what point you were trying to make when you mentioned this, but just thought I should respond.

Just a thought!

Perhaps the point was a counterpoint to the claim that Canada gets smarter immigrants than the U.S. does.

Just a thought.

[Kanoe]

Canada gets smarter immigrants than the U.S. does

But, that's also true.

Smaller population & economy + higher financial burden per taxpayer = tighter screening and lower acceptance rate.

Which means - only the BEST get in.

[bush_cheney2004]

Careful how you interpret numbers. On a per capita basis, Canadians give more towards humanitarian aid than Americans do. Individually, we are charitable on a scale that the USA cannot begin to match.

Per capita basis means nothing to the actual disaster. While Canada farted around with its DART team trying to find a way to transport, the Americans were already on scene during the tsunami disaster.

But, it should be, shoudn't it?

No...Canadian values are for Canadians, not the world's lone superpower.

Nope. During WWI, After Germany invaded France through Belgium, Britain and therfore Canada were drawn into the war in an act of nationalism, not imperialism. During WWII, once again Canada, fought as a membetr of the British Commonwealth against an agressor. No imperialistic motives, certainly no economic benefits - economies suffered greatly - purely defense of a way of life.

No...not true at all. Getting troops to go caused riots in Canada and it was the British Empire that was threatened by definition....including Hong Kong and India! Canada was part of the largest imperialist state the world has ever known.

Nope. I'll give you the 'more opportunities' comment - the US does have a larger economy, so I can't argue that. Canadian higher education ranks as some of the best in the world - lots of foreigners attend our Colleges and Universities and our graduatea consistently rank high in international competitions.

Sorry, but Canada routinely ranks but a few schools in the world's top 100...the American universities dominate the list.

Yes our taxes are marginally higher, about 5% by the latest survey, but our disposable income is higher than the average American. Check it out yourself - your government maintains the same stats. As far as health care goes, well there has to be a reason why the US is looking to the Canadian model to create a better health care system, doesn't there?

No, Canada has the worst and most expensive universal health care system amongst OECD nations. France is much better. Canadian provinces use the resources of the American system to make up glaring gaps for things like neo-natal care, bariatric surgery, and diagnostic imaging.

We have a problem with Americans coming over the border into Southern Ontario to buy cheaper medication and using health cards for hospital visits, obtaining laser surgery not available in the States --- geez, recently one of your actors, Mike Douglas was up in Montreal getting cancer treatments for a problem that was missed down your way at that Mayo clinic.

I will meet your Michael Douglas with a PM (Chretien) and MP (Williams), plus Belinda Stronach who wanted the best care possible from America, just like the Saudi princes who fly to the USA, not Canada for health care.

Once again, you are wrong. I didn't say it didn't. You said that NOAA was the sole provider and they are not. Once again, Canadian weather reporting relies on Canadian, European, Chinese, Japanese and American technologies and data to create it's weather models ..... an approach that many countries worldwide use.

Do you also use Japanese GPS satellites....the ones that don't exist?

You didn't really respond to my main point. You tried to infer in your previous comment that Canada was somehow indebted to the US, because without your investment in our energy sector we wouldn't have the industry we now have. The question I put to you is does the US, by it's 'largest in the world foreign investment assistance package', by extension, not have the same industrial climate?? Come on ....... all nations do this! Foreign investment is often necessary. For every skill you think only the US is capable of providing to Canadians, I can show you a skill that I believe only Canadians can provide for Americans. It's a no win argument.

Not in the specific case of petroleum development in Canada, particularly after Trudeau dicked things up with the NEP, forever alienating Alberta. America did not let them down like that, losing lots of money before oil prices reached modern highs. Furthermore, it is American infrastructure and market size that makes the investment worthwhile, not just selling gas in Ontario. SunCorp came from an American subsidiary.

Well you are our largrest foreign investor, but I wouldn't classify that as ownership. The Chinese on the other hand, do own you. Their banks have your economy by the proverbial short hairs. Canada is the single largest foreign supplier of energy to the United States--providing 20% of U.S. oil imports and 18% of U.S. natural gas imports.

Wrong...the Chinese only hold about 12% of US debt....the majority is held by other Americans. At least you admit you were wrong about the majority foreign supplier of US energy.

Canada is the leading export market for 35 of the 50 U.S. states and is a larger market for U.S. goods than all 27 countries of the European Union. Check out domestic car manufacturing in North America sometime.

75% of Canada's exports go to the USA....and Canada has no major domestic car make...all are foreign. Even tiny Sweden manages to build their own cars and tactical aircraft.

Canadian plants consitently perform higher than American plants when turning out new vehicles for Ford, GM and Chrysler. A lot of hollywood, nashville and memphis can thank the talents of Canadians for contributing to your TV and recording arts industry.

Canadian workers rank low in productivity because Canada lacks the capital to modernize plants. It is too dependent on US and other foreign investment.

All your funniest comedians are Canadian. As far as your American TV programming goes - you won't find many sitcoms, game shows or reality shows whose ideas weren't first shown on British, Australian or Japanees TV first

Richard Pryor was not Canadian. Canadians who do well in the states become...Americans. Smart move.

- you stole most of your programming - those weren't American ideas first.

Thanks for the internet.

America doesn't need half ass CanCon rules to protect its culture.....doesn't work anyway. Going back to the days of radio, Canadians would listen to American content not because Canada's sucked, but because it simply didn't exist.

Edited October 3, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

[Guest American Woman]

Canada gets smarter immigrants than the U.S. does

But, that's also true.

Smaller population & economy + higher financial burden per taxpayer = tighter screening and lower acceptance rate.

Which means - only the BEST get in.

It doesn't mean that at all.

Rancorous debates over immigration have erupted from Australia to Sweden, but there is no such thing in Canada as an anti-immigrant politician. Few nations take more immigrants per capita, and perhaps none with less fuss.

link

[Kanoe]

All non answers on your part ........ really .... no real substance there.

It's always interesting, in these sorts of discussions, because you've reached the stage where you can only throw out half truths or insinuations or impressions or rumours or myths or the like or even, in your case ... just make stuff up ... to make a point. No actual facts, mostly just stuff you've pulled out of the air from somewhere and I don't feel like chasing down counter arguments for vapour stats and vapour opinions.

The only one I'll give you is the Japanese satellite comment. They have just launched, so aren't quite in production mode yet.

I worked as a GPS data analyst for the feds in Canada as part of the International GPS System for many years and Japan was a part of that system at the time ... not sure if they are any longer - I'm retired.

Civilians agencies from a number of countries, yours included, fooled the American military GPS system, getting past anti-spoofing and other nonsence and enabled the satellites to determine real time positioning to within cms. My bad - I was thinking of THAT Japanese satellite when I made the comment.

But, To get back to the original posters comment regarding Cross Border Policing.

This action, no matter how insignificant it may seem, if it happens, will only be another attempt by the US to subvert the powers of a soveriegn nation. Canada does not need or want, Americans policing our nation anymore than you need or want us. Stay out of my yard! Look where your self-imposed role of 'World Police' got you and learn from that mistake. No one asked America to take on that role then ....... and no one's doing it now.

[Kanoe]

no such thing in Canada as an anti-immigrant politician

Where does this accusation come from, it's nothing I said or implied.

But you're a fool if you think Canada does not have a list of criteria for selecting immigrants ... ALL nations do.

Because of our population base and our individual burden per taxpayer, perhaps our criteria limits the number of immigrants we are able to let in.

Still doesn't deny the fact that on a per capita basis we support more immigrants in this country than the US does.

[bush_cheney2004]

All non answers on your part ........ really .... no real substance there.

You are new here...my answers are couched in fact and well documented. No need to repeat 23,000 posts just for you.

It's always interesting, in these sorts of discussions, because you've reached the stage where you can only throw out half truths or insinuations or impressions or rumours or myths or the like or even, in your case ... just make stuff up ... to make a point. No actual facts, mostly just stuff you've pulled out of the air from somewhere and I don't feel like chasing down counter arguments for vapour stats and vapour opinions.

Because you can't. Canada is self limiting in many ways, from the Avro Arrow to oil pipelines. That's not America's fault.

The only one I'll give you is the Japanese satellite comment. They have just launched, so aren't quite in production mode yet.

Still waiting for the Canadian GPS, GEOS, and other comparable achievements. The Avro engineers left Canada in disgust to work on America's moon landing project (Mercury/Gemini/Apollo)..you may have heard of these.

I worked as a GPS data analyst for the feds in Canada as part of the International GPS System for many years and Japan was a part of that system at the time ... not sure if they are any longer - I'm retired.

The US is not retired...new stuff goes up all the time.

Civilians agencies from a number of countries, yours included, fooled the American military GPS system, getting past anti-spoofing and other nonsence and enabled the satellites to determine real time positioning to within cms. My bad - I was thinking of THAT Japanese satellite when I made the comment.

No matter, the larger point remains. Canada depends on these foreign systems.

But, To get back to the original posters comment regarding Cross Border Policing.

This action, no matter how insignificant it may seem, if it happens, will only be another attempt by the US to subvert the powers of a soveriegn nation. Canada does not need or want, Americans policing our nation anymore than you need or want us.

Sure....we don't want you voting in our elections either, no matter how badly you want to send a message about George Bush.

Stay out of my yard! Look where your self-imposed role of 'World Police' got you and learn from that mistake. No one asked America to take on that role then ....... and no one's doing it now.

Who says we need anyone to ask? That's the difference between Canada and the US. The Americans have the means and the will...Canada has neither.

Edited October 3, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

[Kanoe]

You are new here...my answers are couched in fact and well documented. No need to repeat 23,000 posts just for you.

Well I may be new HERE ... but, I know your profile bush_cheney ... and you're NOT new .... you're opinions and beliefs are transparent to me ... I know who you are and what you stand for ... I know your discussion style ... it has it's basis in emotion not fact, in innuendo not fact, in fantasy not fact ..........

Please bore me with your 23000 posts ... I'd love to read these facts that you say are so well documented.

Your answers are still evasive, non answers. What are you implying with 'couched' BTW.

Because you can't. Canada is self limiting in many ways, from the Avro Arrow to oil pipelines. That's not America's fault.

Such odd things to say ...... and really don't add anything to the discussion.

The Canadian Aerospace industry was directly threatened by US political interests to 'shut down' the Avro Arrow because it was technically ahead of its time and threatened the American Aerospace because of it's superior capabilities. So, we were bullied. I'm not proud of that - Diefenbaker was wrong to submit to AMerican pressure. Our most popular PM's have always been the ones that stood up to and took no crap from the US - most recently Pearson, Trudeau, Chretian and now Harper. You may not think Harper is 'holding his own' and he is dull looking ......... but, he's a smart, tricky diplomat!!!

As far as oil pipelines are concerned ....... I don't believe they should be constructed ...... anywhere. They are an environmental abomination and hazard on so many fronts - but, that's a topic in itself. The issue of pumping oil from Alberta to Texas is just stupid and a non-issue for me. We need more Canadian refineries and I believe the Canadian and Alberta governments dropped the ball by not having this industry in place. Politicians up here are under a lot of pressure right now to answer to that - refineries should have been built a decade ago in Alberta to support this resource.

Still waiting for the Canadian GPS, GEOS, and other comparable achievements. The Avro engineers left Canada in disgust to work on America's moon landing project (Mercury/Gemini/Apollo)..you may have heard of these.

Well yes, if it wasn't for Canadian input into the American space program ... then I guess you wouldn't have a program .... is that what you're implying. No one else ,in the whole world has had any contribution of any sort to the International GPS System ?

The USA is insular in many respects ... that's not Canada's fault. Wake up to the fact that a lot of 'good' stuff comes from a lot of different countries. You should watch the international news, maybe from other countries, like Canada for instance ... see what the rest of us are doing ... what we're up to ... what we're busy inventing and researching to benefit mankind.

Sure....we don't want you voting in our elections either, no matter how badly you want to send a message about George Bush

You're a Bush supporter. I get that from your username. Also a Cheney supporter too eh! ... wadda ya reaaly think of him! Family man, humanitarian, christian ... which of these labels would you use?

Who says we need anyone to ask?

Because you area a citizen of the world! But, never mind - you did a better job of prooving many of my points by simply constructing the sentence you did ........ Who says we need anyone to ask?

o matter, the larger point remains. Canada depends on these foreign systems.

You didn't get my point. If you are the user of a GPS reciever in the USA, whether it's in your car or in your hand ......... you are relying on an international conglomerate of nations, Canada included, to provide you with the coordinate information. The USA depends on these foreign systems. This is NOT a made in the USA technology! Look up the mandate of the IGS. The GPS information you recieve is not solely American collected, analyzed or distributed.

[bush_cheney2004]

Well I may be new HERE ... but, I know your profile bush_cheney ... and you're NOT new .... you're opinions and beliefs are transparent to me ... I know who you are and what you stand for ... I know your discussion style ... it has it's basis in emotion not fact, in innuendo not fact, in fantasy not fact ..........

Yes...you are new here, and I wish you would use this forum engine's quote feature like the rest of us.

Please bore me with your 23000 posts ... I'd love to read these facts that you say are so well documented.

Again newbie, this forum has a search function and extensive archive.

Your answers are still evasive, non answers. What are you implying with 'couched' BTW.

My answers are no more evasive than yours, and contradict your version of reality.

Such odd things to say ...... and really don't add anything to the discussion.

Non-answer....non-responsive.

The Canadian Aerospace industry was directly threatened by US political interests to 'shut down' the Avro Arrow because it was technically ahead of its time and threatened the American Aerospace because of it's superior capabilities. So, we were bullied.

Nonsense....we (as many members of this forum have debated this point countless times), and your version comes in at the bottom of the list. The Americans gave Canada a B-47 for Iroquois engine testing, wind tunnel time at Langley, fire control, missile, and temporary developement engines. Some "shut down".

I'm not proud of that - Diefenbaker was wrong to submit to AMerican pressure. Our most popular PM's have always been the ones that stood up to and took no crap from the US - most recently Pearson, Trudeau, Chretian and now Harper. You may not think Harper is 'holding his own' and he is dull looking ......... but, he's a smart, tricky diplomat!!!

I like Harper...he knows how Canada's bread gets buttered and stays buttered. Chretien and Martin are war criminals!

As far as oil pipelines are concerned ....... I don't believe they should be constructed ...... anywhere. They are an environmental abomination and hazard on so many fronts - but, that's a topic in itself. The issue of pumping oil from Alberta to Texas is just stupid and a non-issue for me. We need more Canadian refineries and I believe the Canadian and Alberta governments dropped the ball by not having this industry in place. Politicians up here are under a lot of pressure right now to answer to that - refineries should have been built a decade ago in Alberta to support this resource.

But they weren't built, and all the lame excuses you propose as reasons just won't do. The Americans will build the pipelines, and continue to refine the oil that Canada can't. That is the way it has always gone...Canada specializes in excuses for why things can't get done.

Well yes, if it wasn't for Canadian input into the American space program ... then I guess you wouldn't have a program .... is that what you're implying. No one else ,in the whole world has had any contribution of any sort to the International GPS System ?

You are missing the point...lots of other nationals come to the US to work on projects of this scale and technical challenge, because that's where the action is. Werner Von Braun was a captured German scientist. That is what America has always done better than Canada.

The USA is insular in many respects ... that's not Canada's fault. Wake up to the fact that a lot of 'good' stuff comes from a lot of different countries. You should watch the international news, maybe from other countries, like Canada for instance ... see what the rest of us are doing ... what we're up to ... what we're busy inventing and researching to benefit mankind.

I already told you that a Canadian shared today's Nobel Prize in Physiology....he works in the USA!

You're a Bush supporter. I get that from your username. Also a Cheney supporter too eh! ... wadda ya reaaly think of him! Family man, humanitarian, christian ... which of these labels would you use?

He's a wonderful American prick who was available just when America needed one.

Because you area a citizen of the world! But, never mind - you did a better job of prooving many of my points by simply constructing the sentence you did ........ Who says we need anyone to ask?

That was by design...I am not Canadian. I do not apologize for living large or feel guilty about it.

You didn't get my point. If you are the user of a GPS reciever in the USA, whether it's in your car or in your hand ......... you are relying on an international conglomerate of nations, Canada included, to provide you with the coordinate information.

I am not such a user...I was using military satellite positioning systems many years before GPS, and I can guarandamntee you they were not developed by an international "conglomerate".

The USA depends on these foreign systems. This is NOT a made in the USA technology! Look up the mandate of the IGS. The GPS information you recieve is not solely American collected, analyzed or distributed.

The original GNSS was developed by the US DoD from 1973 to 1993, and was a follow up to Transit/Timation (NAVSAT). The Americans needed global positioning and timing accuracy to drop conventional and nuclear bombs anyplace on the planet....so we did it.

[Kanoe]

and I wish you would use this forum engine's quote feature like the rest of us.

I'm an idiot ......... how do I do that?

Canada specializes in excuses for why things can't get done

Hmmmmm! .... and some Americans continues to live in a world where ONLY they count ... so, divisive.

I like Harper...

See, I told you he'd fool you ... keep an eye on him ... he may not do what you'd like him to be!!! He's like Trudeau, but with a conservative bent. Remember the laments of Nixon ........ he couldn't match Trudeau's intelligence, just too smart! Nixon had lots of quite nasty things to say about Trudeau ... all well documented, of course. Up here, we have a few nasty things of our own that Trudeau said about Nixon .......... but, that's fodder for another thread.

because that's where the action is

Or, that's where, YOU think the action is ... Such an amazing, pompous ... but, expected impression of american society ..........

The richest citizens in the world live in Luxembourg

The country with the highest standard of living is Norway

The most technologically advanced nation is Japan

The best cars come from Germany

Ireland has the best stout

The best pristine wilderness is in Canada and I should add the greatest 'quality of life'

South Korea is considered to be the world's most high tech nation

The best food is in Italy

France has the best health care and the most beautiful women

Africa has produced the best roots music

Most great artists and sculptors are European

I could go on, but .......

.... and then we have, the largest military is in the USA

.... the most imperialistic nation in the world's history is the USA

.... the most insular nation in the world is the USA

'Chretian'

Remember Chretian ....... he's the PM that DIDN't get sucked into Bush's WMD LIE ... thank Gawd for Chretian. History vindicated Chretian, NOT Bush .........shame on Bush. Canada didn't go to war against Iraq and I'm proud of that! The war against Iraq was an American supported 'economic' war for oil control. It had nothing to do with terrorism ..... that was another smoke screen, perpetrated on the American public ... shame on Bush!

You are missing the point...lots of other nationals come to the US to work on projects of this scale and technical challenge, because that's where the action is. Werner Von Braun was a captured German scientist. That is what America has always done better than Canada

What;s YOUR point? This argument repeats itself in every nation worldwide. Do you really think that the US is the ONLY nation in the world to attract immigrants who then go on to 'do greater things' .... gimme a break!

He's a wonderful American prick who was available just when America needed one

Nuff said ...........

I am not such a user...I was using military satellite positioning systems many years before GPS, and I can guarandamntee you they were not developed by an international "conglomerate".

... and , once again .... you inferred Canada was reliant on foreign technology. I point out to you that so is the US. I don't particularily care that, in the past, you used another system ......... point is, if you use GPS TODAY, you are also reliant

on foreign technology

The Americans needed global positioning and timing accuracy to drop conventional and nuclear bombs anyplace on the planet....so we did it.

Nuff said .............

And you wonder why you have the international reputation that you do ???????

[bush_cheney2004]

I'm an idiot ......... how do I do that?

Just click the reply button and don't copy/paste/italicize....try it so we can get arguing done around here.

Hmmmmm! .... and some Americans continues to live in a world where ONLY they count ... so, divisive.

Ever been to Quebec?

See, I told you he'd fool you ... keep an eye on him ... he may not do what you'd like him to be!!! He's like Trudeau, but with a conservative bent. Remember the laments of Nixon ........ he couldn't match Trudeau's intelligence, just too smart! Nixon had lots of quite nasty things to say about Trudeau ... all well documented, of course. Up here, we have a few nasty things of our own that Trudeau said about Nixon .......... but, that's fodder for another thread.

Yes...yes...yes...it's all been discussed here ad nauseum. Nixon was right...Trudeau was an "asshole".

Or, that's where, YOU think the action is ... Such an amazing, pompous ... but, expected impression of american society ..........

Count the emigres between our two nations....America wins...by an order of magnitude.

Remember Chretian ....... he's the PM that DIDN't get sucked into Bush's WMD LIE ... thank Gawd for Chretian. History vindicated Chretian, NOT Bush .........shame on Bush. Canada didn't go to war against Iraq and I'm proud of that! The war against Iraq was an American supported 'economic' war for oil control. It had nothing to do with terrorism ..... that was another smoke screen, perpetrated on the American public ... shame on Bush!

Instead PM Martin begged at Bush's feet for oil services contracts in Iraq after the invadin' was done. Afghanistan was Chretien's joint, remember?

What;s YOUR point? This argument repeats itself in every nation worldwide. Do you really think that the US is the ONLY nation in the world to attract immigrants who then go on to 'do greater things' .... gimme a break!

No, not the only one, but certainly more opportunities than in Canada.

... and , once again .... you inferred Canada was reliant on foreign technology. I point out to you that so is the US. I don't particularily care that, in the past, you used another system ......... point is, if you use GPS TODAY, you are also reliant

on foreign technology

I wasn't...but you were/are. Canada even buys the directed munitions kits from the USA...after it buys the aircraft that Canada build on license from the Americans.

And you wonder why you have the international reputation that you do ???????

You still don't get it...I don't have the Canadian ache of an inferiority complex...we have a superiority complex. Americans don't define themselves as !Canadian.

Edited October 3, 2011 by bush_cheney2004