Time to dump the UN?

[Uncle 3 dogs]

Oh we could replace parts of the UN, but many parts are unsalvageable.

The General Assembly is pretty much without any merit.

[wyly]

The General Assembly is pretty much without any merit.

and like everyone else who makes this comment you haven't a clue why and when asked to explain you have nothing...

[GostHacked]

We can hardly "avoid criticism." People can, and do, criticize to their hearts' content.

It's just as you said - the U.S. wishes to remain a sovereign state. Once another force has jurisdiction over that, once that power has been handed to someone outside the state, sovereignty is actually questionable:

I think we have reached that crossroad. The UN is slowly taking control over everything. Most soveriegnty in the EU no longer exists because of the creation of EU and Brussels tells the countries what they can/can't do.

State sovereignty is slowly being eroded away.

[Bob]

you were wrong about the ICC being a UN organization...you were wrong about the US funding for the ICC...you were wrong about the US funding the ICC through third parties...you are unable to come up with a list of cases to back up "kangaroo" court charges...you must have an endless supply of crap up there bob, perhaps if you get your arm in up to your shoulder you can come up with some more.....

Your claim was that the ICC is "independent" from the UN. It is not. It "judges" on "international law" largely established by the UN. And the USA's obscene funding of the UN (about 25% of its budget) frees up money for other countries to pay for the ICC, since they don't pay their share in the UN. It's just like how Canada and Europe freeload off of American security guarantees (which are paid for by the American taxpayer).

[wyly]

I think we have reached that crossroad. The UN is slowly taking control over everything. Most soveriegnty in the EU no longer exists because of the creation of EU and Brussels tells the countries what they can/can't do.

State sovereignty is slowly being eroded away.

you live in the EU? you this how? because you read it on some rightwing blog so it must be true?...

[wyly]

Your claim was that the ICC is "independent" from the UN. It is not. It "judges" on "international law" largely established by the UN. And the USA's obscene funding of the UN (about 25% of its budget) frees up money for other countries to pay for the ICC, since they don't pay their share in the UN. It's just like how Canada and Europe freeload off of American security guarantees (which are paid for by the American taxpayer).

:lol: we dealt with this on another thread and you were shown to be full of crap then and here you are regurgitating the same poo (short term memory issues?)...repeating the lie doesn't make it true...

[Oleg Bach]

Since we pay 400 billion a year , to support a UN that has lost it's way, where most nations were applauding Amadadiddlediddle rant, why are we there?

They have had decades of time to bring about world peace and harmony - they failed ----------I say if you have an employee who has had chance after chance - but continues to falter and lose direction - YOU FIRE THEM!

[GostHacked]

you live in the EU? you this how? because you read it on some rightwing blog so it must be true?...

Someday many of you will understand that there really is no left, there is no right. Because the policy continues. Don't forget the EU has existed for some time, and recently celebrated their 50th anniversary. So over the last 50 years, both people on the left and the right have brought us to this stage. Both the left and right have done it in small increments over a long period of time so no one really notices it until it is fully in place and affects you directly.

The EU is really one geo-political and a geo-economic entity.

http://www.allbusiness.com/legal/922588-1.html

http://london.cafebabel.com/en/post/2007/07/26/Does-the-EUs-Reform-Treaty-Erode-the-UKs-Sovereignty

"Once enforced, there will quite simply be no more significant powers left solely with the governments of the member states, and outside the orbit of the EU's formal institutions. Of course, member states may still pursue their individual foreign and defence policies, for example, but their activities will be increasingly circumscribed by the EU and their national sovereignty diminished."

The first step was economic integration with the EU members. The second step was political integration with the EU members. The third step (and that would be the kicker) is military integration with the EU members.So again, over the years in every country that is currently an EU member, on both the left and the right, have brought it to what we see the EU is today.

[wyly]

They have had decades of time to bring about world peace and harmony - they failed ----------I say if you have an employee who has had chance after chance - but continues to falter and lose direction - YOU FIRE THEM!

another vague statement...

[lukin]

another vague statement...

Maybe vague, but nonetheless, true.

[wyly]

Someday many of you will understand that there really is no left, there is no right. Because the policy continues. Don't forget the EU has existed for some time, and recently celebrated their 50th anniversary. So over the last 50 years, both people on the left and the right have brought us to this stage. Both the left and right have done it in small increments over a long period of time so no one really notices it until it is fully in place and affects you directly.

The EU is really one geo-political and a geo-economic entity.

http://www.allbusiness.com/legal/922588-1.html

http://london.cafebabel.com/en/post/2007/07/26/Does-the-EUs-Reform-Treaty-Erode-the-UKs-Sovereignty

The first step was economic integration with the EU members. The second step was political integration with the EU members. The third step (and that would be the kicker) is military integration with the EU members.So again, over the years in every country that is currently an EU member, on both the left and the right, have brought it to what we see the EU is today.

oh wow citations from blog sites that certainly definitive and you failed to notice the 2nd source/blog also deny's the point you make the summation of which was

The EU reform treaty does not erode the UK's sovereignty any more than being a member of the EU single market already has done. If one takes sovereignty to mean the ability to use force either against one's own population or another's and the ability to redistribute wealth, then the UK has preserved it sovereignty entirely, with the caveat that the single market has limited some policy choices. Whether or not these choices are limited, the ability to take decisions in these areas remain in the hands of member states and "outside the orbit of the EU's formal institutions." The EU reform treaty has not transferred these competencies to the EU's institutions, nor is it likely that any future treaty will.

...maybe you've noticed the 'financial bailout of greece underway?...the bailout needs consent from every eu member, each member needs to approve it in their own parliament first...the economics is just a more advanced version of N american free trade agreement...political union is decades away if ever. likely never...military co-operation already exists in NATO...

and the eu is not 50 yrs old it came into being as it is now in 1993...the preceding organizations ECC, ECSC, and BENELUX were not the same...

Edited September 30, 2011 by wyly

[jbg]

The UN was a great idea but after Rwanda, and the Americans under minding it with their illegal war. I don't know what purpose it has anymore.

I guess we agree on something.

[jbg]

Without an International Criminal Court, the Nazis would have never been put to trial for Crimes Against Humanity because they created the laws in their country and made it legal to exterminate the Jews, "Gypsies", homosexuals, political dissidents, etc.

I think Israel took care of trying Adolph Eichman quite nicely.

[cybercoma]

I think Israel took care of trying Adolph Eichman quite nicely.

I don't think Israel had any legitimacy in their trial of Eichmann, although I believe he should have been tried.

[GostHacked]

oh wow citations from blog sites that certainly definitive and you failed to notice the 2nd source/blog also deny's the point you make the summation of which was

The UK is really the only entity that has been fighting back against that. So it shows the concern that I have about sovereignty, or else the UK would not be fighting back against it trying to keep theirs.

...maybe you've noticed the 'financial bailout of greece underway?...the bailout needs consent from every eu member, each member needs to approve it in their own parliament first...the economics is just a more advanced version of N american free trade agreement...political union is decades away if ever. likely never...military co-operation already exists in NATO...

Because North America (well really the US and Canada) have already been economically integrated, and politically integrated (to some extent) and we do have military integration. And wiht the last war on Libya, who has not attacked anyone, Italy cried like a little girl, and now the US and Canada join in on the fight against a country that had not attacked any NATO member.

Think about it.

and the eu is not 50 yrs old it came into being as it is now in 1993...the preceding organizations ECC, ECSC, and BENELUX were not the same...

http://www.eurunion.org/eu/2007-Speeches-and-Press-Conferences/THE-EUROPEAN-UNION-CELEBRATING-50-YEARS-OF-PEACE-PROSPERITY-AND-PARTNERSHIP.html

50 years for the Treaty of Rome, which was the groundwork for the modern EU. You are correct in the modern inception of it in 1993, however, the groundwork to get to that stage had been going on for over 30 years. Hence the 50th anniversary of the EU.