Government needs to create a Donation Funding plan

[Squeakbox]

Salary inequality, people who can't afford gas or food, families ending up on the streets! I'm sick of the fake lakes and fighter jets, I'm sure we all are. There are people out there who can't live on their own because salaries aren't enough, and then they can't retire, because the new pensions are a joke! Also, the rents keep climbing, and the welfare doesn't budge all that much to the point where people who actually NEED the welfare can't even get into rent-income housing, because there ISN'T enough complexes being created!

If anything - the government needs to create a "Donation Funding" plan to go into building necessary homes, supplying proper pensions, and providing proper care to people on the streets!

Sure - we can get more jobs, but that doesn't help people's self-confidence when they aren't in a comfortable living environment. You just about have to live with room mates, and rent out rooms to get by in this country now! It's not a sound way to live, because you never know what the person you're living with is like!

The issue: the government doesn't care about personal issues, and would rather toss around papers like a bunch of babies.

They need to give the extra money they're spending on extra junk that isn't a high priority to something that actually needs it - not just health care, but housing is a big issue that is on the rise, and will go un-noticed until we have a global issue, or make this matter more public.

In fact, anyone on welfare support or this stupid new "worker's pension" system for people who don't work in the government is a joke, and still have to work to get any means out of their life.

How do they expect people to work into their 80's? Or the rest of their life? It's unrealistic to expect EVERY elderly person to be chippy, healthy, and exercise the rest of their lives to stay on top. Some people have done physical work all their life, and it's taking a toll on their bodies, they can't go dancing if they have back problems... It's NOT WHINING, it's real life, and not everyone can go dancing after a long day of labor!

In fact, they can't take holidays or days off if they don't get paid for not doing their job! A government job may seem like hard work, but you're only fooling yourselves to what real work is like - and they get paid 4 to 10 times less than anyone in the government!

Nevermind paying someone with a college degree or university degree what it's worth when there's people who probably tried to make it through the system, but possibly came down with a sudden illness and couldn't finish their college. A top student may be able to do well, but if they can't do the exam because of a violent flu - oh sorry, you can't complete your college.

That was a FACT over 10 years ago, and because of that people in their 40's can't redo their college because of current limitations. So they don't deserve a decent pension because they couldn't complete their college?

My mother tried for years to finish her college - top student, and kept getting sick. She had to quit and work to pay off student loans. Oh sorry, I guess she's not good enough for your pig money?

-------------------------

What I'm trying to get at is the government needs to fund the people - not brush the issue under the rug, because that's something that Steven Harper loves to do.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Squeakbox

[Bonam]

Salary inequality, people who can't afford gas or food, families ending up on the streets! I'm sick of the fake lakes and fighter jets, I'm sure we all are.

Nope, I like fighter jets. Fake lakes are nice too.

There are people out there who can't live on their own because salaries aren't enough, and then they can't retire, because the new pensions are a joke! Also, the rents keep climbing, and the welfare doesn't budge all that much to the point where people who actually NEED the welfare can't even get into rent-income housing, because there ISN'T enough complexes being created!

People should try harder and get better jobs. Also, they can live with room mates to reduce living expenses.

Sure - we can get more jobs, but that doesn't help people's self-confidence when they aren't in a comfortable living environment. You just about have to live with room mates, and rent out rooms to get by in this country now! It's not a sound way to live, because you never know what the person you're living with is like!

What do you mean? Of course you know what the person you're living with is like. If you don't like them you can find a different room mate. Or better yet, room with a friend you've known for a while or a family member.

In fact, anyone on welfare support or this stupid new "worker's pension" system for people who don't work in the government is a joke, and still have to work to get any means out of their life.

Er... why shouldn't someone have to work to be able to afford a decent life? The rest of us need to work so the government can spend taxes to fund people that don't want to? No thanks.

How do they expect people to work into their 80's? Or the rest of their life? It's unrealistic to expect EVERY elderly person to be chippy, healthy, and exercise the rest of their lives to stay on top. Some people have done physical work all their life, and it's taking a toll on their bodies, they can't go dancing if they have back problems... It's NOT WHINING, it's real life, and not everyone can go dancing after a long day of labor!

What's dancing got to do with it? Anyway, someone employed in a physical job is probably in better shape by the time they get old than someone who works in an office.

In fact, they can't take holidays or days off if they don't get paid for not doing their job! A government job may seem like hard work, but you're only fooling yourselves to what real work is like - and they get paid 4 to 10 times less than anyone in the government!

A private job is 10 times less than government? The cheapest jobs are minimum wage which is $8-10/hour. Are you saying government employees make a minimum of $80-100 per hour?

Nevermind paying someone with a college degree or university degree what it's worth when there's people who probably tried to make it through the system, but possibly came down with a sudden illness and couldn't finish their college. A top student may be able to do well, but if they can't do the exam because of a violent flu - oh sorry, you can't complete your college.

There's plenty of accommodation in university for people who get sick or have other unforeseeable circumstances. I should know, I just graduated (from my PhD) in June.

That was a FACT over 10 years ago, and because of that people in their 40's can't redo their college because of current limitations. So they don't deserve a decent pension because they couldn't complete their college?

They get CPP and/or OAS just like everyone else.

My mother tried for years to finish her college - top student, and kept getting sick. She had to quit and work to pay off student loans. Oh sorry, I guess she's not good enough for your pig money?

If she was a top student she woulda had a scholarship and never had student loans. Hole in your story.

What I'm trying to get at is the government needs to fund the people - not brush the issue under the rug, because that's something that Steven Harper loves to do.

Fund the people? That's impossible. The government only gets it funding from the people, from taxing us. To fund some people more, it has to tax others more. Since I'd be on the getting taxed side of that equation, I say no thanks. Paying almost ~30% of my income, and then another 10% as sales tax, is more than enough of a contribution.

Just cause you want me to pay more money so you can sit at home and not work and enjoy a nice lifestyle doesn't mean I want to pay for you to do it.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Bonam

[Squeakbox]

People should try harder and get better jobs. Also, they can live with room mates to reduce living expenses.

What do you mean? Of course you know what the person you're living with is like. If you don't like them you can find a different room mate. Or better yet, room with a friend you've known for a while or a family member.

Er... why shouldn't someone have to work to be able to afford a decent life? The rest of us need to work so the government can spend taxes to fund people that don't want to? No thanks.

What's dancing got to do with it? Anyway, someone employed in a physical job is probably in better shape by the time they get old than someone who works in an office.

A private job is 10 times less than government? The cheapest jobs are minimum wage which is $8-10/hour. Are you saying government employees make a minimum of $80-100 per hour?

There's plenty of accommodation in university for people who get sick or have other unforeseeable circumstances. I should know, I just graduated (from my PhD) in June.

They get CPP and/or OAS just like everyone else.

If she was a top student she woulda had a scholarship and never had student loans. Hole in your story.

Fund the people? That's impossible. The government only gets it funding from the people, from taxing us. To fund some people more, it has to tax others more. Since I'd be on the getting taxed side of that equation, I say no thanks. Paying almost ~30% of my income, and then another 10% as sales tax, is more than enough of a contribution.

Just cause you want me to pay more money so you can sit at home and not work and enjoy a nice lifestyle doesn't mean I want to pay for you to do it.

I'm talking about YEARLY SALARIES for one thing. A person in a government job can earn as much as $120,000 a year compared to $15,000 a year for the lowest type of salary - look up IT professions to get an idea of what I'm getting at. Might not be what the government pays, but I've seen IT jobs out there for $45,000 to $55,000 at a low salary.

Also - if you have a room mate you know, fine enough, but if you need to rent out a room to someone you DON'T know because you need to sub the cost of living, by advertising - no you DON'T know what they're like.

I am talking about people who work, maybe they clean for a living and don't earn much. Is that fair?

Also, my mother was a top student COLLEGE, she wasn't able to go to College right after highschool due to real life issues - her parents kicked her out because she was 18. They wouldn't PAY for her college. She had to GET student loans to fund her college years, which didn't help when she kept getting the flu, and standards back then in the college she went to didn't allow her to complete certain things to get her diploma. She had ME to deal with as a baby during those years. Do you like being a smart ass?

There wasn't any scholarships back then for college, nor is there ANY for college even now, ONLY for university - IF you met certain criteria. Hole in your statement right there.

YES THERE'S ACCOMMODATIONS NOW THESE DAYS, but there WASN'T any when she was in college. She can't do anything about it because real-life crap keeps happening. You want me to explain how drivers these days are screwing up car insurance with all the retarded accidents? Fantastic, you got through university - don't you sound smart<sarcasm>.

I know plenty of people who went through university, and they're not too smart! Total screwballs I've seen with PhD's, doesn't mean much if you're not still learning.

As for the dancing - I'm talking about people with back injuries! People who do physical work may be in better shape, but if they get an injury they aren't!

Keep spewing crap, I'm talking about the college system OVER 10 YEARS AGO, not NOW in 2011! Back when they didn't HAVE these accommodations. She can't go back to college because the protocols were never in place until now after the H1N1!

Edited September 18, 2011 by Squeakbox

[Bonam]

Keep spewing crap, I'm talking about the college system OVER 10 YEARS AGO, not NOW in 2011! Back when they didn't HAVE these accommodations. She can't go back to college because the protocols were never in place until now after the H1N1!

Ok so the situation is fixed now with the new "protocols" in place? Sounds good, we can then safely check this issue off as a problem corrected and move on. Btw, it doesn't take any protocol to talk to your prof and explain that you were sick and to retake the test at a later date. The vast majority of the time they are only too happy to accommodate. That was as true 10 years ago as it is now.

I'm talking about YEARLY SALARIES for one thing. A person in a government job can earn as much as $120,000 a year compared to $15,000 a year for the lowest type of salary

Yes, and a person in the private sector can earn $120k too, or $120M for that matter. What's your point?

I am talking about people who work, maybe they clean for a living and don't earn much. Is that fair?

Of course its fair. If there are plenty of other people willing and able to do the same work for that price, why should they be paid any more?

As for the dancing - I'm talking about people with back injuries! People who do physical work may be in better shape, but if they get an injury they aren't!

If they get an injury on the job, they get 1) "free" healthcare in Canada to get them rehabilitated if possible and 2) WCB benefits to replace lost wages.

Keep spewing crap,

Sure thing.

[Squeakbox]

This has nothing to do with funding people who don't want to do anything, it's about who works harder for less money is the big problem.

It's nice being able to work for the government and get 6-weeks vacation, but for someone who has to work physically to pay off things in their life can't get that freedom! So the person who gets 6-weeks off still gets a nice fat $45,000 a year, at least, while someone who couldn't make it through college because they had to deal with a robbery and paying off student loans is only earning maybe $15,000 to 20,000 a year at best! They don't get 6-weeks off or any days off unless they're throwing up all day and can't go anywhere because of a severe flu!

Even with the free health care - a nice flu shot is great, but you can still get a nasty flu that the shot doesn't prepare you for, or worse. Does "deadly pandemic" concern you at all?

Free health care is only good if you NEED medical care, free health care only amounts to a small portion of life, and it's not like you're paying for health care every waking day of your life, other than taxes.

I don't know where you work, maybe you do work physically and got lucky with a nice business going on, but that's not a reality for people. It's not easy for people to find a job, even if they are good at it.

A college diploma, or even a university degree doesn't necessarily guarantee a job (except with a university degree you can more likely get a comfortable job and not realize how hard people truly work, and they are no less than you are)!

Edited September 18, 2011 by Squeakbox

[Bonam]

This has nothing to do with funding people who don't want to do anything, it's about who works harder for less money is the big problem.

I'm not sure what you want. Some kind of government supplement for people who work low paying jobs? Bring that minimum wage worker up to 45k / year? Such a program would be ridiculously expensive, plus employers who pay less than $45k but more than minimum wage would all just drop their wages down to minimum and let the government fill in the rest. Such expenses would dwarf existing government spending, and would cause dramatic inflation as $45k became the new effective minimum.

It's nice being able to work for the government and get 6-weeks vacation, but for someone who has to work physically to pay off things in their life can't get that freedom! So the person who gets 6-weeks off still gets a nice fat $45,000 a year, at least, while someone who couldn't make it through college because they had to deal with a robbery and paying off student loans is only earning maybe $15,000 to 20,000 a year at best! They don't get 6-weeks off or any days off unless they're throwing up all day and can't go anywhere because of a severe flu!

1) You still get at least two weeks off almost whatever kind of job you have (unless you're self-employed/entrepreneur).

2) Government workers getting too high of a salary and too high benefits for simple jobs that would pay much less in the private sectors is certainly a problem. I've often argued against the entitlements that public sector unions receive. Lowering government workers wages and reducing their vacation time isn't gonna help you to earn more than $15k though if that's all you earn, however.

Even with the free health care - a nice flu shot is great, but you can still get a nasty flu that the shot doesn't prepare you for, or worse.

I sense you had some kind of traumatic flu-related experiences. For most people, a flu is a minor inconvenience that lasts a few days, just one step up above a common cold.

A college diploma, or even a university degree doesn't necessarily guarantee a job (except with a university degree you can more likely get a comfortable job and not realize how hard people truly work, and they are no less than you are)!

Of course they don't. Everyone has to compete for jobs, whatever degree they may or may not have. That being said, there's hundreds of thousands of unfilled engineering positions right now, and not enough qualified people to fill them. Companies are desperately bring in people from all around the world to try to fill these jobs, and they can't do it fast enough. Get a useful degree and, while a job is not guaranteed, you have a very very good chance of getting one. Of my dozens of friends and acquaintances who graduated with various engineering degrees, every single one had a good professional job immediately after graduating.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Bonam

[Squeakbox]

I'm not sure what you want. Some kind of government supplement for people who work low paying jobs? Bring that minimum wage worker up to 45k / year? Such a program would be ridiculously expensive, plus employers who pay less than $45k but more than minimum wage would all just drop their wages down to minimum and let the government fill in the rest. Such expenses would dwarf existing government spending, and would cause dramatic inflation as $45k became the new effective minimum.

Ya, I wasn't saying $45,000 salary, that is a bit high for any average worker. But what I'm getting at is this - rent has gone up into the $700 range (monthly), and welfare may cover the cost of $500 monthly rent, but that's JUST that much, some welfare only benefits $300 monthly rent, and that's basic (if you still want money left over for yourself), which means you'll be around rooming in lots of places.

This doesn't mean that they're lazy... yes there are lazy people out there, but this could be from other issues. There are mental problems affecting many people, and not to deny history, because historically humans are lazy creatures (in the sense of history itself, other than for necessity).

The minimum someone may be earning for work might be $7,000 to $10,000 a year. Now I'm just guessing, but I have heard of some really low salaries out there. Part-time jobs only last just that - part time. I guess if you do a cycle of jobs when they're available, and save up money - no problem, but you'll end up working a lot of morning-to-late shifts to earn a decent salary.

The reality about part time jobs - people not being able to get part-time jobs. So this runs those savings down if you don't get a job. You're practically bouncing between low welfare, and getting jobs. My friend still can't find a part-time job because the jobs he could get are 3 streets away (about a 1-hour walk), so it's not always practical unless you can bike every day (hoping your bike doesn't give out).

There's flaws everywhere, you have to realize how people truly struggle, and it doesn't mean they're not hard workers.

[Squeakbox]

Of course they don't. Everyone has to compete for jobs, whatever degree they may or may not have. That being said, there's hundreds of thousands of unfilled engineering positions right now, and not enough qualified people to fill them. Companies are desperately bring in people from all around the world to try to fill these jobs, and they can't do it fast enough. Get a useful degree and, while a job is not guaranteed, you have a very very good chance of getting one. Of my dozens of friends and acquaintances who graduated with various engineering degrees, every single one had a good professional job immediately after graduating.

Ya, bringing people from another country... that's another problem.

I've met 3 families in a few years that came from another country, 2 of which were Haitian. When we lived back in our old area, this couple was living below us, the husband was getting his university. Here they are on social assistance - both of them.

He's coming home, then going to university - his wife stays at home all day (your classic house wife) popping babies. She doesn't pop 1 or 2, she popped around 3 in 1 or 2 years! By then, I guess her husband ran low on money because NOW they have babies to care for right? They had to go into rent-income housing - something that CANADIANS can use, and they're STILL on assistance, the husband quit university because he couldn't continue. Smart right? Popping babies because they figure it's rich world here or something (not to sound racist).

I'm in a new place now, and guess what? Another haitian family on social assistance, and she doesn't speak proper french, it's a completely weird french that doesn't make sense, and she doesn't understand my french! (I don't know how to explain it)

There's more places in the states, I don't know why they sent a refuge from that place to live here?

I'm sure there's people from other countries filling job positions, but guess what - they have no connection to the people who live here!

[Shady]

This type of mass socialism doesn't work. All one has to do is look at what Europe is going through. Plus, federal and provincial budgets already contain massive amounts of money being spent on the type of people you're alluding to. Canada has already tried your ideas, and needed to self-correct in the 90s under Chretien and Martin. Their resolve fixed much of our fiscal problems, and paved the way for strong economic growth, and putting us in the best fiscal shape of any western country.

[Squeakbox]

This type of mass socialism doesn't work. All one has to do is look at what Europe is going through. Plus, federal and provincial budgets already contain massive amounts of money being spent on the type of people you're alluding to. Canada has already tried your ideas, and needed to self-correct in the 90s under Chretien and Martin. Their resolve fixed much of our fiscal problems, and paved the way for strong economic growth, and putting us in the best fiscal shape of any western country.

I know they "tried" options like this before, but the issue is that the government can't seem to utilize it properly. They're spending it in the wrong places.

[August1991]

The issue: the government doesn't care about personal issues, and would rather toss around papers like a bunch of babies.

Squeakbox, have you just now discovered that governments don't care about personal issues? How old are you?

I reckon that many older women vote leftish in the belief that government will take care of them, like a responsible husband. Well, these women are in for a rude awakening when they realize that modern government is like a wayward, spendthrift man always chasing the skirts and charming the ladies.

How do they expect people to work into their 80's? Or the rest of their life?

Work in to their 80s? I suspect that if someone in their 60s hasn't organized their life and hence must work into their 80s, nothing the government or anyone else does will make any difference. Some people are impervious to wise decisions and they simply must touch bottom in their own way before they see any light at all. Edited September 18, 2011 by August1991

[William Ashley]

... people in their 40's can't redo their college because of current limitations.

What limitations ?

Edited September 18, 2011 by William Ashley