On Health Care

[guyser]

To be clear - was the American patient you are referring to being treated in Canada simply because the doctor was recommended as the gold standard? In other words, could he have been treated in the U.S. but chose Canada instead because he preferred this doctor? Or was treatment not available in the U.S. due to lack of services/facilities?

Honestly I have no idea.

It could be because of his expertise, hell everytime I take my mom in there is another Doc from somehwere on this globe learning his technique.

I also do not know if a US provider paid or this was out of pocket.

I realize Canada, too, has exceptional doctors. I hope you don't think I was saying otherwise.

Not at all.

I'm simply speaking of the lack of facilities/services that exists in some instances in Canada - and relying on the U.S. in such instances does save the Canadian health care system the cost of having to build more facilities/provide more services. The Canadian health care system does use the U.S. as a safety net in such instances, and the U.S. has no such safety net. It stands to reason that would be reflected to some extent in both Canada's and our health care costs.

I agree.

The more I think of it, the more it makes sense to utilize the over abundance of care available in the US.

It makes excellent economic sense and with demographic changes it allows for far greater flexibility plus the cost contained and no ongoing facility costs .

[Guest American Woman]

The more I think of it, the more it makes sense to utilize the over abundance of care available in the US.

It makes excellent economic sense and with demographic changes it allows for far greater flexibility plus the cost contained and no ongoing facility costs .

You're basically supporting what I've said. It's been said by some here that the cost of health care in the U.S. is so high compared to Canada and I pointed out that the cost of health care in Canada would be higher if it didn't have the United States to fall back on; and since the U.S. has no such back up, of course that would account for some of the higher cost.

Same with providing services for some procedures/medical conditions that can't be treated in Canada.

Furthermore, in an emergency situation, I'm not so sure relying on another nation is the best situation.

It's also been said that the U.S. has the worst health care system in the world. Makes me wonder why Canada would rely on such a terrible system as a back up.

Those were the comments I was taking issue with. I doubt if you and I disagree on a lot regarding both of our health care systems - both strengths and weaknesses.

[wyly]

Sorry, no go with you on this.

It wasnt a stupid statement at all. In fact I believe it to be quite rare for any US healthcare provider to send someone up here.

Our system can be used by US providers, they pay cash or cheque, but again,quite rare. Drs in the US are wise enought to see the shortfall and fill it ratehr quick. Then they can tell any provider that hey , I do X so send 'em here

which is the point I was making...it's also rare for canadian MDs'to send someone to the US as well, so rare it makes the news when it does happen...canadians seeking treatment in the US do so almost exclusively to beat wait times not because of better outcomes...

You are correct, it does appear that its approaching 1M will leave for medical tourism. But a lot of that is just money issues, including people from Canada.

Lost go to Mexico for tooth whitening et al....not surgery per se , but improvements and they too are listed under out of country healthcare.

fewer % of canadians seek treatment out of canada for any reason compared to americans...canadians don't go for money issues unless the treatment is not covered here, which would be things like cosmetic surgery or experimental procedures...no one is going to go elsewhere to a questionable foreign healthcare system to pay for a procedure that is free here with the best of MD's and care... Edited September 20, 2011 by wyly

[wyly]

My linkHealth outcomes often better in Canada than U.S.: review

Overall, 14 of the 38 studies showed better outcomes in Canada, while five favoured the United States. The other 19 studies showed equivalent or mixed results in the two countries.

"What it [the study] shows is that despite an enormous investment in money, we do not see better health outcomes [in the U.S.]," Devereaux said.

[jacee]

You're basically supporting what I've said. It's been said by some here that the cost of health care in the U.S. is so high compared to Canada and I pointed out that the cost of health care in Canada would be higher if it didn't have the United States to fall back on; and since the U.S. has no such back up, of course that would account for some of the higher cost.

Same with providing services for some procedures/medical conditions that can't be treated in Canada.

Furthermore, in an emergency situation, I'm not so sure relying on another nation is the best situation.

It's also been said that the U.S. has the worst health care system in the world. Makes me wonder why Canada would rely on such a terrible system as a back up.

Those were the comments I was taking issue with. I doubt if you and I disagree on a lot regarding both of our health care systems - both strengths and weaknesses.

Canadians going to the US for health care do not increase your public costs as they pay in full. It is as I said earlier that your costs are higher per capita than ours due to higher administration costs.

The gap between U.S. and Canadian spending on health care administration has grown to $752 per capita. A large sum might be saved in the United States if administrative costs could be trimmed by mplementing a Canadian-style health care system

My link

And see wikilink

Edited September 21, 2011 by jacee

[waldo]

I know our system fails some. I know it also does a most excellent job of providing care for others.

Canada's system also fails some - and would fail more if the U.S. couldn't/didn't take them in. I know it also does a most excellent job of providing care for others.

the number of Canadians being sent/seeking health care in the U.S. is... mice-nuts, compared to the numbers of U.S. citizens, under the guise of so-called 'medical tourism', seeking medical care outside the U.S. - notwithstanding the growing numbers of persons covered by U.S. insurers offering foreign medical procedures among those covered by their health plans. What would be the cause/rationale behind all these 'hundreds of thousands/projecting into millions' of U.S. citizens seeking medical care abroad?

[bush_cheney2004]

the number of Canadians being sent/seeking health care in the U.S. is... mice-nuts, compared to the numbers of U.S. citizens,

I agree...there are many more US citizens in the data domain. Makes me wonder about your analysis of climate change data sets as well...DUH!

[Guest American Woman]

Canadians going to the US for health care do not increase your public costs as they pay in full.

Which likely explains why I never claimed that it did. Now if you would - could -address what I did say, it would be refreshing.

[waldo]

It's been said by some here that the cost of health care in the U.S. is so high compared to Canada and I pointed out that the cost of health care in Canada would be higher if it didn't have the United States to fall back on; and since the U.S. has no such back up, of course that would account for some of the higher cost.

Canadians going to the US for health care do not increase your public costs as they pay in full.

Which likely explains why I never claimed that it did. Now if you would - could -address what I did say, it would be refreshing.

with a broad-sweeping, open-ended, unaccountable and unsubstantiated statement, you're attempting to attribute a portion of the high cost of U.S. health care to providing a so-called "fall back/back-up" avenue for the relatively insignificant number of Canadians that avail themselves of U.S. health care. Alternatively, you appear oblivious to a U.S. "fall back/back-up" outlet that most certainly imparts a cost affect to the U.S. health care system; i.e., the most significant number of Americans who, in lieu of the high cost of U.S. health care, seek medical treatment abroad (either under the guise of "medical tourism" or as a competitive end result of U.S. insurers offering foreign medical procedures within their health plan coverage).

[Guest American Woman]

with a broad-sweeping, open-ended, unaccountable and unsubstantiated statement, you're attempting to attribute a portion of the high cost of U.S. health care to providing a so-called "fall back/back-up" avenue for the relatively insignificant number of Canadians that avail themselves of U.S. health care.

I'm attempting to do no such thing. Please don't summarize my posts for me; you really suck at it.

[bush_cheney2004]

I'm attempting to do no such thing. Please don't summarize my posts for me; you really suck at it.

Zing! That's gonna leave a mark. Canadian provinces do use the excess capacity of the US health care "system" because they lack the resources (money) to pay for surplus services (staff/facilities). They squeeze their budgets until Canadians scream too loud to ignore, so they built web site for wait time scoreboards....like that'll help!

[waldo]

It's been said by some here that the cost of health care in the U.S. is so high compared to Canada and I pointed out that the cost of health care in Canada would be higher if it didn't have the United States to fall back on; and since the U.S. has no such back up, of course that would account for some of the higher cost.

Canadians going to the US for health care do not increase your public costs as they pay in full.

Which likely explains why I never claimed that it did. Now if you would - could -address what I did say, it would be refreshing.

with a broad-sweeping, open-ended, unaccountable and unsubstantiated statement, you're attempting to attribute a portion of the high cost of U.S. health care to providing a so-called "fall back/back-up" avenue for the relatively insignificant number of Canadians that avail themselves of U.S. health care. Alternatively, you appear oblivious to a U.S. "fall back/back-up" outlet that most certainly imparts a cost affect to the U.S. health care system; i.e., the most significant number of Americans who, in lieu of the high cost of U.S. health care, seek medical treatment abroad (either under the guise of "medical tourism" or as a competitive end result of U.S. insurers offering foreign medical procedures within their health plan coverage).

I'm attempting to do no such thing. Please don't summarize my posts for me; you really suck at it.

there are at least two of us (as quoted above), that formed an interpretation of your post, also, as quoted above and red colour emphasized... if the, as you say, summary of your post... sucks... please take a moment to offer greater clarity and state exactly, specifically and unequivocally what your post was intended to imply. Please frame that summary with particular attention to your referenced, (1)high cost of the U.S. health care system and, (2) the cost affecting impact of Canadians on the high cost of the U.S. health care system, and (3) a reaffirmation of your claim that the U.S. health care system does not have a "fall back/back-up" outlet, particularly in direct regards to U.S. insurers offering foreign medical procedures within their health plan coverages, and in indirect regards to so-called "medical tourism".