So Mcguinty's pride and joy

[PIK]

That is pretty well shut down. In the papers McGuinty is touring a green energy plant, solar or something and the press buys it up, but yet a reporter from the NP starts to asked questions and finds out the plant is shut down do to poor demand. When are people going to smarten up and dump this guy.

Edited September 19, 2011 by PIK

[scribblet]

Not soon enough, but I fear he may win, at least a minority gov't.

[jbg]

I've been hearing differently. Is Hodek that ineffective?

[Argus]

I've been hearing differently. Is Hodek that ineffective?

His campaign certainly has been. And he's, in a word, boring.

McGuinty has been running a very lively fear campaign for months, with the aid of those who have profited from his incompetence, like the teachers unions and the 'green industry'

Hudak will destroy health care and education and burn babies and make everyone suffer, etc. This has been extremely effective among society's more timid sorts - ie, women.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Argus

[capricorn]

In the papers McLiar is touring a green energy plant, solar or something and the press buys it up, but yet a reporter from the NP starts to asked questions and finds out the plant is shut down do to poor demand. When are people going to smarten up and dump this guy.

Well PIK, there are plenty of reasons to turf McGuinty and his merry band but Hudak hasn't hit the right chords. Why isn't he hammering McGuinty's pie in the sky green energy gaffes with more vigor?

McGuinty is trying very hard to sell his green energy experiments. It's becoming more apparent his dream of positioning Ontario as the world's capital for green energy is being heavily subsidized by Ontario taxpayers. His vision and quest for a legacy is rapidly turning into a nightmare.

“The prize for me is not just taking advantage of electricity generated by the wind and the sun, it’s the American market. As I see it, we are positioning ourselves to take advantage of what will be an emerging demand by Americans, particularly American moms and dads, who will eventually say ‘we’ve got to stop burning coal, it doesn’t make sense’.”

See, Premier Dad is in tune with moms and dads everywhere, and he knows … he just knows … that American moms and dads are going to want solar power because, dagnab it, they just can’t tolerate the continued use of coal.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/09/16/kelly-mcparland-mcguinty-determined-to-bet-ontarios-money-on-energy-gamble/

Oh yeah, the American market. I say BS to that until Ontario's own energy needs are met at a cost that won't bankrupt families.

A couple of years ago the McGuinty government went green crazy.

As part of its Green Energy Act the province agreed to purchase energy from windmills and solar farms at a huge premium to the market price for energy.

The trouble is those windmills and solar panels don’t produce energy when we need it. As a result, the province is compelled to pay as much as 13 times the going rate for power we don’t need and then export the surplus power at discount rates.

Crazy, right? What’s even crazier is you and I get to pay for all of that exported, high premium power in our hydro bills.

---

In full spin mode, McGuinty is now pointing to the 15,000 jobs the Samsung deal is supposed to create. He isn’t talking about the jobs that have been lost because of high-energy costs to Ontario businesses.

Hydro bills increasing

Or the chilling economic effects of having Ontario families spend more every month on their hydro bills.

Or the WTO challenge to the legality of the Green Energy Act.

Or the bankrupt solar panel plants in the U.S.

Or the dismal economic record of green energy in Europe.

Or the real elephant in the green energy room — China.

China is spending huge sums of state money supporting the manufacture and export of about half of the worlds solar panels and wind turbines.

Of course, for domestic power consumption China relies largely on cheap and dirty coal power.

On top of all that China controls most of the world’s supply of the rare earth materials that are required for wind turbine production.

So lets add this up; Ontario is charging huge premiums for domestic energy and exporting cheap power while China burns cheap coal and bangs out subsidized wind turbines and solar panels. Wonder who will be more competitive?

A few years ago, when McGuinty signed the deal with Samsung, he believed he had found the magic solution to growing Ontario.

Give a few billion to a foreign corporation, charge homeowners more for hydro and sit back and wait till the jobs show up. It’s the government equivalent to hitting the big red easy button.

Now that dream is turning into a nightmare.

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/09/16/sweet-deal-it-aint

About that Eclipsall photo op. At least we're getting some comedy out of the whole sordid business.

According to the National Post, McGuinty made a campaign stop at the Eclipsall Energy Corp. solar panel plant in Scarborough earlier this week where he touted the province’s growing green energy economy boosting his pitch to go bigger and go greener.

Not so much.

You see, the company’s production line is temporarily shut down because of low demand for those solar panels. Oh, and those employees flanking him as he did the requisite photo-op taking a turn working on a panel? Most of them were cardboard cutouts.

http://ninthave.ca/front/2011/09/16/mcguinty-gets-kneecapped-on-green-energy/

I can't wait for the debate on September 27 just to hear McGuinty spin his green energy fiasco.

[Bob]

His campaign certainly has been. And he's, in a word, boring.

McGuinty has been running a very lively fear campaign for months, with the aid of those who have profited from his incompetence, like the teachers unions and the 'green industry'

Hudak will destroy health care and education and burn babies and make everyone suffer, etc. This has been extremely effective among society's more timid sorts - ie, women.

I think the fear campaign is effective among certain groups of people because of decades of social indoctrination via media and schools. Canadian political culture is to the hard left, and many of these fools respond positively to the usual rhetoric against the evils of conservatism... When the CPC is barely conservative, yet described as "far-right" or "right-wing" (complete with menacing ads of Harper's "secret agenda"), you know you've got a problem with the country's political culture.

[jacee]

His campaign certainly has been. And he's, in a word, boring.

McGuinty has been running a very lively fear campaign for months, with the aid of those who have profited from his incompetence, like the teachers unions and the 'green industry'

Hudak will destroy health care and education and burn babies and make everyone suffer, etc. This has been extremely effective among society's more timid sorts - ie, women.

I think it's ... Hudak will 'burn your health cards, steal kids' school lunches, and deliver sacrificial babies to corporate tables' ...

Or something like that.

And they didn't even have to put in "kick all the foreigners out" as Hudak did that for himself.

I agree that the prospects for this election just aren't too interesting ...

Though Andrea Horwath seems to have her hand on a good lever ...

Edited September 18, 2011 by jacee

[Shwa]

His vision and quest for a legacy is rapidly turning into a nightmare.

I say BS to that until Ontario's own energy needs are met at a cost that won't bankrupt families.

Right. Liberal fear mongering.

As opposed to neocon hyperbole eh?

It all balances out.

[capricorn]

Right. Liberal fear mongering.

As opposed to neocon hyperbole eh?

It all balances out.

I've learned a lot from observing the Liberals spook their opponents.

[Shwa]

I've learned a lot from observing the Liberals spook their opponents.

Right, because, you know, it's the Liberals fault, even on a personal level.

[Wild Bill]

Right. Liberal fear mongering.

As opposed to neocon hyperbole eh?

It all balances out.

I don't know about fear mongering but I can say as a techie who makes his living from volts, McGuinty is obviously "technically challenged" to the point where one could define him as a "special" kid...

I think he got bamboozled by the Samsung salespeople. A potential customer who was both ignorant and gullible. They must have thought they'd died and gone to heaven!

[Shwa]

I don't know about fear mongering but I can say as a techie who makes his living from volts, McGuinty is obviously "technically challenged" to the point where one could define him as a "special" kid...

I think he got bamboozled by the Samsung salespeople. A potential customer who was both ignorant and gullible. They must have thought they'd died and gone to heaven!

Right. How could anyone forget your eminent qualifications? Because everyone equates the expertise gained by noodling around with Radio Shack parts in your garage as being qualified to evaluate regional power systems.

[capricorn]

Right, because, you know, it's the Liberals fault, even on a personal level.

On a personal level, all politics affect us.

[capricorn]

Right. How could anyone forget your eminent qualifications? Because everyone equates the expertise gained by noodling around with Radio Shack parts in your garage as being qualified to evaluate regional power systems.

How rude of you. In your attempt to belittle a fellow poster, does that make you feel better about your own shortcomings? Or was that your motive right from the start.

[Wild Bill]

Right. How could anyone forget your eminent qualifications? Because everyone equates the expertise gained by noodling around with Radio Shack parts in your garage as being qualified to evaluate regional power systems.

First off, Radio Shack hasn't been a good source for DIY parts for about 20 years now. They sell computers, phones and accessories for such to pay the rent on their stores. I you need a replacement resistor, perhaps the most basic electronic part, you're S.O.L.

Second, I've helped engineers from Northern Telecom to Yorkville Sound/Traynor amplifiers choose suitable parts for their projects. I was there selling computer chips when they were first invented!

So your opinion is frankly, worthless! You aren't qualified to judge me. I make my living not just servicing but also building guitar amplifiers. How much solder have YOU melted in your life?

However, I feel no need to argue. It looks like Dalton may stay in power, albeit with a minority. All I have to do is wait to seen my points proven. His schemes CAN'T work! I have Mother Nature and her Laws of Physics on my side.

His is just a large scale cockup of what we have seen at box stores like Canadian Tire over the past year or two. Have you strolled down the aisle where they have all the solar panels and the accessories that go with them? These stores invested heavily in inventory and most of it is still unsold! The public would love to use the products but once they get into it they find out the hard way that they need to buy a lot MORE panels than they thought! And those panels are a LOT more expensive than they thought they would be!

Meanwhile, any techie who understands how to calculate amp/hrs from batteries and average power delivered from solar panels to charge them is standing back just watching and shaking his head.

Solar power has a long way to go to be affordable for the average consumer. It also has a long way to go to make Dalton look like he knows what he's doing.

It has nothing to do with politics. Physics just doesn't give a crap!

Edited September 23, 2011 by Wild Bill

[jbg]

First off, Radio Shack hasn't been a good source for DIY parts for about 20 years now. They sell computers, phones and accessories for such to pay the rent on their stores. I you need a replacement resistor, perhaps the most basic electronic part, you're S.O.L.

Actually I went to the Radio Shack on Mamaroneck Avenue in White Plains and for $80 solved a knotty problem with my ability to record from vinyl to MP3; an amplifier so I could listen to what I was recording. The salesman was uber helpful and when I drove back to the store he showed me how to set it up.

On this issue we disagree so I will proceed to belittle you.

[Wild Bill]

Actually I went to the Radio Shack on Mamaroneck Avenue in White Plains and for $80 solved a knotty problem with my ability to record from vinyl to MP3; an amplifier so I could listen to what I was recording. The salesman was uber helpful and when I drove back to the store he showed me how to set it up.

On this issue we disagree so I will proceed to belittle you.

I think we need some common definitions, jbg!

Any one can buy such a unit and be shown how to plug in the in/out cables. That does NOT make you a technician!

A technician would BUILD the unit! Inside are resistors, capacitors, transistors and/or integrated circuits, maybe a power transformer and so on.

Some of us can drive a car. Fewer can work on the engine. Fewer still can actually fabricate PARTS for an engine!

There was a time when you could walk into a Radio Shack and buy all the itty bitty parts to construct an amplifier from scratch. Perhaps it's still true in the States but in Canada those days are long gone. Their idea of parts is some connectors to fix your patch cords, assuming you don't want to simply buy new ones in blister packs.

It's an important difference. My premise is that McGuinty and his government appear to be like someone who because he has heard a bit about the parts inside his car engine thinks he's qualified to work on it.

[capricorn]

It looks like Dalton may stay in power, albeit with a minority.

It depends how hungry the NDP is for a piece of government. The NDP's Ms. Horwath won't commit one way or another whether she would join a losing Tory or Liberal vote to form a coalition.

Anyway WB, Dalton's "stories" may just be the thing to push him over the top.

In a visit to the Mount Sinai Hospital Thursday morning, Mr. McGuinty visited the maternity ward, admired and held a newborn baby, and then joked he wanted to take the infant with him – all this before making an announcement about an expansion to the hospital.

Standing in front of assembled doctors and nurses at Mount Sinai, Mr. McGuinty spoke about how “magical” babies are. He noted that he comes from a family of 10. He joked that his family had a “unique” way of celebrating Christmas.

“My friends would get a puppy and I’d get a new brother,” he said.

---

“Just to tell you one little story. The stories are always good. I grew up in a big family, you all know this. And we were entitled to get up in the morning, leave our beds, go down to the breakfast table and we had access to pretty well an unlimited supply of puffed wheat. … No cereal was ever designed to more quickly absorb milk and sink to the bottom of your bowl than puffed wheat. So we weren’t big fans of puffed wheat. But we also had the ‘gold’ and it was hidden under my mother’s bed. It was Corn Flakes. And when she woke up, she would produce the ‘gold’ and then we knew we had hit the big time. We had access to Kellogg’s Corn Flakes. So, gentlemen: Just so you know, you have a distinct and proud history with the McGuinty household.”

---

“In the late 70s my mom started to work here as a nurse. She loved her experience here. She really enjoyed the profession of nursing. On one particular occasion, my dad threw our roto-tiller – it’s a garden tiller – in the back of the truck and threw a couple of kids in the back of the truck as well, and we came over here and we tilled some of the lawn here at CHEO. … Today, you would be arrested for something like that. … We planted a vegetable garden because my mom thought it would be a good idea for patients to see a garden grow, perhaps … even get into the garden to pick some food.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ontario-election/on-the-hustings/gather-round-ontario-voters-its-story-time-with-dalton-mcguinty/article2175920/

As I read these stories, I got a whiff of apple pie baking in the oven (during off peak Hydro hours of course) followed by the scent of freshly washed clothes flapping in the breeze (if it's allowed). Yeah, I can see gullible Ontarians falling for Dalton's tales.

[charter.rights]

I think we need some common definitions, jbg!

Any one can buy such a unit and be shown how to plug in the in/out cables. That does NOT make you a technician!

A technician would BUILD the unit! Inside are resistors, capacitors, transistors and/or integrated circuits, maybe a power transformer and so on.

Some of us can drive a car. Fewer can work on the engine. Fewer still can actually fabricate PARTS for an engine!

There was a time when you could walk into a Radio Shack and buy all the itty bitty parts to construct an amplifier from scratch. Perhaps it's still true in the States but in Canada those days are long gone. Their idea of parts is some connectors to fix your patch cords, assuming you don't want to simply buy new ones in blister packs.

It's an important difference. My premise is that McGuinty and his government appear to be like someone who because he has heard a bit about the parts inside his car engine thinks he's qualified to work on it.

All the parts for an amplifier or a radio can be purchased on-line in about 5 minutes. Radio Shack is a dead duck and The Source is on its way to redundancy.

[Shwa]

First off, Radio Shack hasn't been a good source for DIY parts for about 20 years now. They sell computers, phones and accessories for such to pay the rent on their stores. I you need a replacement resistor, perhaps the most basic electronic part, you're S.O.L.

Second, I've helped engineers from Northern Telecom to Yorkville Sound/Traynor amplifiers choose suitable parts for their projects. I was there selling computer chips when they were first invented!

So your opinion is frankly, worthless! You aren't qualified to judge me. I make my living not just servicing but also building guitar amplifiers. How much solder have YOU melted in your life?

I rest my case about your qualifications.

However, I feel no need to argue. It looks like Dalton may stay in power, albeit with a minority. All I have to do is wait to seen my points proven. His schemes CAN'T work! I have Mother Nature and her Laws of Physics on my side.

"His schemes," like he is a dictator with no expertise from industry consultants and advisors. They have bibliographies. You have notes from tinkering.

His is just a large scale cockup of what we have seen at box stores like Canadian Tire over the past year or two. Have you strolled down the aisle where they have all the solar panels and the accessories that go with them? These stores invested heavily in inventory and most of it is still unsold! The public would love to use the products but once they get into it they find out the hard way that they need to buy a lot MORE panels than they thought! And those panels are a LOT more expensive than they thought they would be!

So we have gone from the garage to the box store spacial construct have we? Good for you. Now keep going...

Meanwhile, any techie who understands how to calculate amp/hrs from batteries and average power delivered from solar panels to charge them is standing back just watching and shaking his head.

Solar power has a long way to go to be affordable for the average consumer. It also has a long way to go to make Dalton look like he knows what he's doing.

It has nothing to do with politics. Physics just doesn't give a crap!

Is has everything to do with forward looking innovation which would explain your comfort in fixing up old stuff.

[capricorn]

Is has everything to do with forward looking innovation which would explain your comfort in fixing up old stuff.

Hey Shwa, many products have been improved because someone tried to "fix" something and discovered answers to problems in those products.

[Shwa]

Hey Shwa, many products have been improved because someone tried to "fix" something and discovered answers to problems in those products.

Noooooo. Well then I guess we can truly correlate guitar amps and regional power systems after all because their innovative tracks, at the highest philosophical level, are just that similar. Thanks for clearing that up Capricorn, I feel better already.

[Wild Bill]

Noooooo. Well then I guess we can truly correlate guitar amps and regional power systems after all because their innovative tracks, at the highest philosophical level, are just that similar. Thanks for clearing that up Capricorn, I feel better already.

Same old, same old. Ad hominem, ad hominem, ad hominem. Predictable as the dawn.

Back to the 'ignore' list. Life is too short. If I wanted to catalog my own failings I would get married again! I was hoping to learn something besides personal insults and propaganda.

[Shwa]

Same old, same old. Ad hominem, ad hominem, ad hominem. Predictable as the dawn.

Back to the 'ignore' list. Life is too short. If I wanted to catalog my own failings I would get married again! I was hoping to learn something besides personal insults and propaganda.

It is really easy to debate someone who uses personal anecdote as their main form of evidence. But you've been told this before and not just by me. So there is no ad hominem going on here sport, I am just attacking your "evidence" and you are taking it personally.

[Wild Bill]

It is really easy to debate someone who uses personal anecdote as their main form of evidence. But you've been told this before and not just by me. So there is no ad hominem going on here sport, I am just attacking your "evidence" and you are taking it personally.

"Right. How could anyone forget your eminent qualifications? Because everyone equates the expertise gained by noodling around with Radio Shack parts in your garage as being qualified to evaluate regional power systems. "

Yeah right, Shwa! Tell us another one!

Buh-bye!