Guest Derek L Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 Or Somalia! Zero percent tax rates baby!!! Clearly the economy must be pipin hot without the jack-boots of big government on peoples necks, and no taxes. Oh wait... :angry: Ahhhh……probably not, as much as being a warlord might appeal to some, my wife is an Afrikaner, and the thought of being wealthy and white in a poor African country has lost all it’s appeal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek L Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 Those of you who aspire to their wealth are their toadies, defending their right to commit tax fraud and deplete government coffers to provide them with more obscene wealth sucked from the rest of us ... including you. They're laughing at you all the way to the Caymans! We need special jails for people like that, where they clean the toilets of the prostitutes, pimps and dealers, or maybe chain gangs to clean the playgrounds of condoms and needles for the safety of the kids, or maybe cooking and serving nutritious meals for kids whose parents are unemployed and on welfare and cannot afford to feed them well. The possibilities are endless! We’re not laughing at anyone....I’d much prefer to stay in Canada and keep the majority of my “wealth”, and I’m more than willing to pay my fair amount of taxes in doing so, but when people starting talking like you (or the NDP or Obama in the States) about taking even more, I’m quite prepared finically to bugger off………and don’t be surprised if a lot of others follow First world countries become second & third world countries rather quick when the wealthy take their money and run...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 Man the recent influx of new left wing posters here are a really hate-filled bunch. That's all I can say. Jails and chain gangs for people who happened to do well and succeed? Stalin already tried that. Sick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 Man the recent influx of new left wing posters here are a really hate-filled bunch. That's all I can say. Jails and chain gangs for people who happened to do well and succeed? Stalin already tried that. Sick. Are we?Or are we the conscience of what the average Canadian is feeling and thinking but too 'nice and polite' to say publicly...? Trust me, there's more than you think who feel this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPCFTW Posted September 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 Are we? Or are we the conscience of what the average Canadian is feeling and thinking but too 'nice and polite' to say publicly...? Trust me, there's more than you think who feel this way. I'm pretty sure the average Canadian isn't so anti-democratic that they want to overthrow a government that was just elected less than 6 months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiddleClassCentrist Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 If people from a lower class are willing to do your "middle-class" job for less, then it's not your noble right to keep the job. You have no right to keep the lower class down. Sorry Jacee. Why doesn't that apply to top jobs where there are lots of talented people below? Why do conservatives consistenly hate middle and lower class workers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 I'm pretty sure the average Canadian isn't so anti-democratic that they want to overthrow a government that was just elected less than 6 months ago. And I'm in agreement with CPCFTW. That doesn't happen too often! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPCFTW Posted September 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 (edited) Why doesn't that apply to top jobs where there are lots of talented people below? Why do conservatives consistenly hate middle and lower class workers? How does it not apply? CEOs are routinely replaced. Just because you think you or your coworkers can do a CEO's job for 1/4 the price, doesn't mean the owners will trust you to do so. There's a lot less risk in replacing the bottom rung of the ladder... Not to mention it's a lot cheaper. Edited September 14, 2011 by CPCFTW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 I'm pretty sure the average Canadian isn't so anti-democratic that they want to overthrow a government that was just elected less than 6 months ago. How would you know, did your servants inform of the things you wanted to hear while you sit way up in your ivory tower?Clearly, you know little of what the average joe is feeling these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPCFTW Posted September 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 (edited) How would you know, did your servants inform of the things you wanted to hear while you sit way up in your ivory tower? Clearly, you know little of what the average joe is feeling these days. I'm under 30 years old and I hardly live in an ivory tower. In fact, I've worked more blue collar job than white collar ones, and I continue to work part-time blue collar jobs on the side of my full-time white collar job, plus continue to pursue continuing education on top of that. When that hard work pays off I don't want scrubs who think putting 37.5hrs/wk towards your career/wealth, and then going out every weekend spending $100 on drinks should have been hard enough work to live a comfortable life, and that they should have a right to my income and wealth. There's over 100 waking hours during the week... A couple years of hard work and anyone can dig themselves out of poverty. Most people in poverty think they should be able to get out working an unskilled 9-5. When you dig yourself a hole, you have to dig a lot harder to get out. Edited September 14, 2011 by CPCFTW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zachary Young Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 I really hate taxes and the idea of wealth redistribution (not least of all because the wealth tends to get redistributed towards the people who are doing the redistributing!). Why should someone else enjoy the fruits of my labour? It doesn't make sense. I would like to see all taxes abolished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 I would like to see all taxes abolished. What a great society that would produce. How do you expect to get to those skyscrapers that people are building, let alone flush the toilets in them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zachary Young Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 The government didn't build the sky scrapers, private industry did. So, the same guys who built them now. Corporations. Businesses. People trying to make an honest buck - not politicians trying to steal every dollar you make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zachary Young Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 Historically societies which have had the most amount of economic freedom - that is to say the lowest taxes - have been the most prosperous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek L Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 I really hate taxes and the idea of wealth redistribution (not least of all because the wealth tends to get redistributed towards the people who are doing the redistributing!). Why should someone else enjoy the fruits of my labour? It doesn't make sense. I would like to see all taxes abolished. That is not realistic……We’ll always have to pay some form of tax….the argument is what percent of income. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 Historically societies which have had the most amount of economic freedom - that is to say the lowest taxes - have been the most prosperous. There is a limit. Government needs to provide a suitable background for society to function. Law enforcement, justice, national defense. These three really should not be handled by private enterprise, I don't think. To fund these activities, some level of taxation must exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zachary Young Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 I suggest 0%. That sounds about fair. First we will get rid of the income tax... then we can focus on getting rid of sales taxes, property taxes and other taxes. The unrealistic idea is that the government should be able to rob us all constantly. That is unrealistic. That is antithetical to a free society. Everyone should be able to keep 100% of their income. That's the only fair system. It's completely unfair to use violence and coercion to obtain revenue, and that is what the income tax is. It's armed robbery. Give us this money or we will lock you in a cage and take away your freedom. That's disgusting. It's immoral. The income tax must be done away with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zachary Young Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 There is certainly a market for justice and security, but clearly government monopoly provision of these goods is not the way to go. Rather we should allow private competing courts to arbitrate disputes and have private security firms and insurance firms take over the few necessary functions of police. Anyone who has ever stood in a government court understands the miscarriages of justice that occur with a government monopoly on justice. There is no justice in our current society. Law has been turned from an instrument to defend property rights to an instrument of plunder. How can you say the state should provide justice and protect property rights when the state is nothing more than a criminal organization, when the state is the most aggregious and constant violator of our rights? It is immoral to steal. It is immoral for me to steal, it is immoral for you to steal, so how can you say it is moral for the government to steal? Shouldn't all individuals and organizations be held to the same moral standards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 The government didn't build the sky scrapers, private industry did. Please read again. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zachary Young Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 Oh... I see the point you are trying to make. I will allow Frederic Bastiat to rebut. “Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all. We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all. We object to a state-enforced equality. Then they say that we are against equality. And so on, and so on. It is as if the socialists were to accuse us of not wanting persons to eat because we do not want the state to raise grain.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 I'm not sure...no I'm quite sure, that you aren't understanding. Society forms itself into the structures that you see because it's necessary. Libertarianism is an impossible ideal (and not that ideal at all, in fact). We need government. Government is the road that you drive on, the net that keeps people from dying in the streets. Beyond that, it's a foundation for the creation of wealth an the growth of any successful society. Beyond even that, at its core, government in the democratic form used in the western world, is a reflection of the will of the people through the history of a country, culminating in what we have today. The reality is that government is a natural progression, and our societies can't exist without it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zachary Young Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 Societies have existed and indeed prospered without government. The not so wild west and iceland during the middle ages are two examples of prosperous anarchistic societies. The state's origin is in conquest, not preservation of society, as Oppenheimer pointed out in his excellent work 'The State'. http://www.franz-oppenheimer.de/state0.htm Do not imagine that simply because government currently provides a service, like roads, that this is the only means of organizing society. Society can and must be organized upon voluntary lines. And your argument that without government people would die in the streets is non sensical. Why? Wealth is created by trade, by the voluntary interactions of profit seeking individuals on the free market. The government does not create wealth, it confiscates it. It steals it. It retards the creation of wealth. Government is a dead weight on the economy. Government is not a reflection of the will of the people. It is a reflection of the will of those in power. The will of individuals is expressed most accurately through their interactions on the market. There everyone gets exactly what they want in exactly the degree they are willing to pay for it. The state was created by conquest and exists through exploitation. The state is the enemy of society not it's saviour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 Societies have existed and indeed prospered without government. No, in fact they haven't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 (edited) We’re not laughing at anyone....I’d much prefer to stay in Canada and keep the majority of my “wealth”, and I’m more than willing to pay my fair amount of taxes in doing so, but when people starting talking like you (or the NDP or Obama in the States) about taking even more, I’m quite prepared finically to bugger off………and don’t be surprised if a lot of others follow First world countries become second & third world countries rather quick when the wealthy take their money and run...... You pay your taxes so why would you have to run away, silly. I'm just after the 20% of Canada's wealth that hasn't been taxed. Fair's fair: If well-off Canadians pay their taxes, why shouldn't the wealthiEST? And if the wealthiEST did pay their fair share of taxes, no one would have to come after you for more. Unfortunately for you, they don't, leaving you the sitting ducks. Edited September 16, 2011 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 (edited) Man the recent influx of new left wing posters here are a really hate-filled bunch. That's all I can say. Jails and chain gangs for people who happened to do well and succeed? Stalin already tried that. Sick. For people who hide vast wealth and avoid paying tax on it?Those are crimes against ALL OF US honest people who do pay their taxes. And they are criminal offences in Canada. And in Tim Hudak's vision of Torytario, there would be chain gangs. So I'm poking fun at the Ontario PC's cos wouldn't a chain gang of extremely wealthy tax evaders be ironically hilarious? Edited September 16, 2011 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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