Layton Lionisation Excessive

[noahbody]

No it is a political issue by its very being a political issue. How about you name someone who has not politicized health care in this country. Go ahead try so I can find a quote and make you look and idiot for your statement.

Preston Manning

[Bitsy]

Nice rebuttal - a personal attack.

Hardly a rebuttal , just an observation since class was never mentioned until criticize other politicians' character is no more classy than those who are criticizing those who mourn Layton.

[punked]

The discussion should be about providing the best possible health care to all Canadians in the most efficient, effective manner, and that includes at the cheapest possible price. I don't think anyone on any party has different objectives. They just have different ideas about how to best bring that about.

That is the discussion in a lot of ways.

[punked]

Preston Manning

He wrote a whole editorial politicizing Health care. Just because you agree with his opinion does not make it different in anyway. I agree with Jack Deal with it.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/opinion/2018-the-new-health-care/article1852490/

You look dumb.

[Guest American Woman]

Hardly a rebuttal , just an observation since class was never mentioned until criticize other politicians' character is no more classy than those who are criticizing those who mourn Layton.

"Hardly a rebuttal" is exactly right. Nothing but a personal attack.

Try sticking to the issue, as I did. So I repeat, I see using Layton's death to bring up other politicians character in a negative way as no more classy than those who are criticizing the people who are mourning him.

[Argus]

That is the discussion in a lot of ways.

Yes, but regarding politicizing, I do think a lot on the Left have politicized it. I don't mean the Right are choir boys, but the main political element in the discussion appears to be the continuing refrain that the Conservatives are trying to bring about an American style health care system - which is silly. I don't personally know anyone who wants such a system. I think that accusation is pure politics, designed to scare people, and it's been used by Liberals and NDP as a handy club for decades now.

[Guest Peeves]

That is the discussion in a lot of ways.

I don't think that was an element of the original post. That had nothing to do with health care.

Good issue, but a different issue.

[punked]

Yes, but regarding politicizing, I do think a lot on the Left have politicized it. I don't mean the Right are choir boys, but the main political element in the discussion appears to be the continuing refrain that the Conservatives are trying to bring about an American style health care system - which is silly. I don't personally know anyone who wants such a system. I think that accusation is pure politics, designed to scare people, and it's been used by Liberals and NDP as a handy club for decades now.

No but from where we are you can't say the Conservatives don't want to move us closer to a US style. Maybe that talking point has been taken to the extreme but I hear the same thing out of Conservatives all the time "Canada is like Cuba, or North Korea with their medical system." We are nothing like those countries. Again the left has done nothing the right doesn't do, it is just a political fact in Canada and around the world.

[Bitsy]

"Hardly a rebuttal" is exactly right. Nothing but a personal attack.

Try sticking to the issue, as I did. So I repeat, I see using Layton's death to bring up other politicians character in a negative way as no more classy than those who are criticizing the people who are mourning him.

As you did when you set yourself up as the doyen on class.

Edited August 28, 2011 by Bitsy

[Guest American Woman]

As you did when you set yourself up as the doyen on class.

You might want to review the rules on personal attacks. In the meantime, carry on ....... any more "discussion" in this direction is clearly a waste of time.

[Guest Peeves]

No but from where we are you can't say the Conservatives don't want to move us closer to a US style. Maybe that talking point has been taken to the extreme but I hear the same thing out of Conservatives all the time "Canada is like Cuba, or North Korea with their medical system." We are nothing like those countries. Again the left has done nothing the right doesn't do, it is just a political fact in Canada and around the world.

That isn't what you hear all the time. What you hear is that Canada and North Korea and Cuba are the only counties without a two tier system.

Please try to be accurate if you make a statement.

This is probably what you mean.

Canada is one of three countries who prevents their citizens from paying directly for healthcare, the other two being Cuba and North Korea.

http://iwarrior.uwaterloo.ca/props/?module=displaystory&story_id=2969&format=html&edition_id=78

[Wild Bill]

That isn't what you hear all the time. What you hear is that Canada and North Korea and Cuba are the only counties without a two tier system.

Please try to be accurate if you make a statement.

This is probably what you mean.

http://iwarrior.uwaterloo.ca/props/?module=displaystory&story_id=2969&format=html&edition_id=78

Actually, I believe Angola is also on the list.

Great company, eh?

[punked]

That isn't what you hear all the time. What you hear is that Canada and North Korea and Cuba are the only counties without a two tier system.

Please try to be accurate if you make a statement.

This is probably what you mean.

http://iwarrior.uwaterloo.ca/props/?module=displaystory&story_id=2969&format=html&edition_id=78

Yah that is what I hear all the time. It is as factually incorrect when it comes from the right as "The right wants us to be the US" is from the left when it comes to Canadian Healthcare. Please go back and read the context of what I said thank you.

[punked]

Actually, I believe Angola is also on the list.

Great company, eh?

There it is. That false equalization from the right I was talking about.

"Poor countries have only public healthcare, thus if Canada has only public Healthcare its healthcare must be on the same level as poor countries."

Thank you for making my point clear.

[Guest American Woman]

There it is. That false equalization from the right I was talking about.

"Poor countries have only public healthcare, thus if Canada has only public Healthcare its healthcare must be on the same level as poor countries."

Thank you for making my point clear.

Actually, if you look at the list of countries with public healthcare, Canada isn't ranked that high. There must be a reason for that.

[punked]

Actually, if you look at the list of countries with public healthcare, Canada isn't ranked that high. There must be a reason for that.

Depends on what you use as a measure. If you use life expectancy Canada is very high, Cancer treatment also, although if we talk something like elective surgery and so on it is very very low. I guess we have decided as a country we have priorities.

[bush_cheney2004]

Depends on what you use as a measure. If you use life expectancy Canada is very high, Cancer treatment also, although if we talk something like elective surgery and so on it is very very low. I guess we have decided as a country we have priorities.

Indeed...Canada has the most expensive universal access "priorities" in the world.

[Hydraboss]

Man, am I sick of hearing "Canada should or should not have a two-tier health system".

Canada has so many tiers it'll make you dizzy. Always has. I paid for an MRI on the wife and got it in just over 24 hours. Cost me $500. I deal with a ton of workers through WCB and guess what? We can get them into a Occ Specialist in...just over 24 hours if we pay; usually about a week if we let WCB handle it. Same doc is booking 6-9 months ahead for any "regular joe blow" being referred by a GP.

Jack used a private health care facility. Tons of Canadians go to private practitioners. Tons of Canadians pay for their own tests so they don't have to wait (this is why Medical Imaging Consultants - MIC keeps an MRI machine that is not for use by Alberta Health Services).

Armed Forces.

Sports teams.

Politicians.

WCB.

Private citizens.

Medical personnel (like my wife).

and....

...everyone else.

[bush_cheney2004]

....Jack used a private health care facility. Tons of Canadians go to private practitioners. Tons of Canadians pay for their own tests so they don't have to wait (this is why Medical Imaging Consultants - MIC keeps an MRI machine that is not for use by Alberta Health Services).

I don't know why your perspective isn't better understood by the masses. The political hacks pretend that n-tier health care doesn't exist in Canada. Strange.....

[Guest Derek L]

Actually, if you look at the list of countries with public healthcare, Canada isn't ranked that high. There must be a reason for that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WHO's_ranking_of_health_care_systems

That even surprised me.......We’re behind Oman, Columbia and Morocco…….And our healthcare is something many Canadians (In 30th) use to distinguish ourselves from the Americans (In 37th)………That’s not much to be proud of…

[punked]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WHO's_ranking_of_health_care_systems

That even surprised me.......We’re behind Oman, Columbia and Morocco…….And our healthcare is something many Canadians (In 30th) use to distinguish ourselves from the Americans (In 37th)………That’s not much to be proud of…

That is from 11 years ago and before the new healthcare accord you know that right? You can post some studies from the 1950s if you want to Derek.

[Guest Derek L]

That is from 11 years ago and before the new healthcare accord you know that right? You can post some studies from the 1950s if you want to Derek.

Do you have a current ranking from the WHO?

[Guest Peeves]

Actually, I believe Angola is also on the list.

Great company, eh?

I sit corrected.

Probably others as well, but I doubt any that we would like to be compared with.

[punked]

Do you have a current ranking from the WHO?

They don't exist people like you said things like that are a waste of tax dollars.

[punked]

I sit corrected.

Probably others as well, but I doubt any that we would like to be compared with.

See this is what I was saying. We aren't Angola we aren't even comparable although that doesn't stop you from making snide remarks so don't get mad when the left says the right wants us to have the US system.