Thorn Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Canada has a legislated mandatory vacation period of two weeks. That is, all employers must grant their full-time employees a minimum of ten days of paid vacation per calender year. That is just about the lowest in the civilized world, and there are studies which seem to show that contrary to popular belief this does not lead to higher productivity, but lower. Why can the people of Australia and Brazil, the people of France, Germany and Lithuania enjoy 4, 5 or even 6 weeks of paid annual vacation a week without their economies collapsing? Btw, popular sentiment among business is to attack anyone who has more than 2 weeks, especially government unions, but also unions in general, and to demand those vacation rights be cut back. A Middle Eastern store clerk in the Annex, who used to live in France, said it best. "There is no life here. People only work, and for little in return." We work, they play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiddleClassCentrist Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 The ugly right wing side believes in the old traditional methods... Keep the worker at work, keep them fearful of losing their job, pay them as low as possible. More progressive methods have been proven to improve quality of work. Anyone who has studied modern business practices would know this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Btw, popular sentiment among business is to attack anyone who has more than 2 weeks, especially government unions, but also unions in general, and to demand those vacation rights be cut back. Well, in BC it is 2 weeks and then after 5 years employment it is 3 weeks. The reality at my firm is 3 weeks of vacation/personal time to start and then after that staff inevitably "negotiate" to 4 - 6 weeks of time. We gladly give this to them otherwise we would never have any staff that would last more than a few years in this business. As for "popular sentiment among business" - show the study that proves this sentiment to be "popular." I suspect that you're assuming a few opinions spoken by some idiots as being from amongst business people, and also being representative of business people, which really is nothing more than an opinion based on nothing (yours and mine). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorn Posted August 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Well, in BC it is 2 weeks and then after 5 years employment it is 3 weeks. The reality at my firm is 3 weeks of vacation/personal time to start and then after that staff inevitably "negotiate" to 4 - 6 weeks of time. We gladly give this to them otherwise we would never have any staff that would last more than a few years in this business. Whether you personally, or your firm, due to local conditions or the type of employment involved get more vacations really is irrelevant given that Canadians as a whole don't share in that wealth. Canadians take fewer vacation times than almost anyone in the world. As for "popular sentiment among business" - show the study that proves this sentiment to be "popular." Well, the Canadian Federation of Independent Business has pretty consistently opposed unions, union dues, pensions, extra holidays and vacations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiddleClassCentrist Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 (edited) My friend has a job in Alberta for an architectural firm. 2 weeks for 3 years 3 weeks for 2 years after 5 years 4 weeks 4 weeks isn't bad if you split it up. Even 10 days can turn into 10 extra long weekends. My mother gets 5 weeks in Ontario... after like 20 years. Edited August 21, 2011 by MiddleClassCentrist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saipan Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 (edited) Canada should legislate more FREEDOM. If someone wants to work for $5/hr and no vacation who to dictate him he can't? We live under increasing number of rules, laws, by-laws and the noose is getting tighter by the day. Now even boating with electric Min-Kota now requires a licence (money) with the usual exception for one race only (that cannot even be mentined here) Edited August 21, 2011 by Saipan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Whether you personally, or your firm, due to local conditions or the type of employment involved get more vacations really is irrelevant given that Canadians as a whole don't share in that wealth. Canadians take fewer vacation times than almost anyone in the world. Then perhaps Canadians should ask for more vacation time. That's what our staff have done and that's why the get the time. My wife went through a similar thing at one time. I told her to just ask for more paid time off in lieu of a pay raise and she got it (basically, her employer at that time wasn't willing to pay her any more in absolute dollars but recognized that she did need some kind of raise). I think the problem is more so with employees than with employers. Well, the Canadian Federation of Independent Business has pretty consistently opposed unions, union dues, pensions, extra holidays and vacations. You are assuming that the CFIB represents business which I think is absurd. I certainly don't belong to them. You also make some claims about their opinions that I can't seem to back up with a google search when it comes to vacation policy. As for their opinions on unions - not relevant to the discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Canada should legislate more FREEDOM. Good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilter Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Canada should legislate more FREEDOM. If someone wants to work for $5/hr and no vacation who to dictate him he can't? We live under increasing number of rules, laws, by-laws and the noose is getting tighter by the day. Now even boating with electric Min-Kota now requires a licence (money) with the usual exception for one race only (that cannot even be mentined here) I thot the whole boating regulation licencing idea was a crock of crap because when it came out & for 4 or 5 years after A canoe with a Min-Kota operator had to be licensed buit a 30 foot house boat operator was OK bare of license. :lol: Now it's everybody and the country will be better off for it--- less drownings by boat operators IF they follow regs. one rule tyhey should put into practice would be that everyone in a boat--- any boat should have to wear a flotation device. If this were brot into play there would soon be an approved lightweight device that didn't have to overheat the wearer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiddleClassCentrist Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 (edited) Canada should legislate more FREEDOM. If someone wants to work for $5/hr and no vacation who to dictate him he can't? We live under increasing number of rules, laws, by-laws and the noose is getting tighter by the day. Now even boating with electric Min-Kota now requires a licence (money) with the usual exception for one race only (that cannot even be mentined here) Canada should legislate more corporate oppression. If someone's only option is to work for $5/hr and no vacation who to dictate him he can't starve? Corporations live under increasing number of rules to protect citizens, laws, by-laws and the requirement to adhere to ethical actions is growing by the day. Now even boating with electric Min-Kota now requires a licence (money) with the usual exception for one race only (that cannot even be mentined here) (not the same) Edited August 21, 2011 by MiddleClassCentrist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIEN Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Canada should legislate more FREEDOM. If someone wants to work for $5/hr and no vacation who to dictate him he can't? Why stop there? Let's re-instate slavery. After all, people should be free to be treated like belongings, right? The problem is not that there are laws to provide for decent working conditions. It's that attitudes like yours make those laws necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saipan Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Why stop there? Let's re-instate slavery. Let's not. Let's legislate FREEDOM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saipan Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 people should be free to be treated like belongings, right? Have you met someone - in non-Islamic country - who wishes so?? Or someone who wishes to be aborted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPCFTW Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Whether you personally, or your firm, due to local conditions or the type of employment involved get more vacations really is irrelevant given that Canadians as a whole don't share in that wealth. Canadians take fewer vacation times than almost anyone in the world. Well, the Canadian Federation of Independent Business has pretty consistently opposed unions, union dues, pensions, extra holidays and vacations. The issue is the combination of all those benefits and declaring them inalienable rights for lower class workers. No one would care if mailmen and bus drivers got 4 weeks vacation. The problem is that the unions insist they get that (or more) plus an unsustainable defined benefit pension plan, plus bankable sick days, plus ridiculous wages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIEN Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Have you met someone - in non-Islamic country - who wishes so?? Of course, you didn't realize that I was mocking your non-sense. So-called "freedom" to be exploited is no freedom at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIEN Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 The issue is the combination of all those benefits and declaring them inalienable rights for lower class workers. No one would care if mailmen and bus drivers got 4 weeks vacation. The problem is that the unions insist they get that (or more) plus an unsustainable defined benefit pension plan, plus bankable sick days, plus ridiculous wages. Oh yes, it's the fault of the union. A lot of employers give 2 or 3 weeks because they can give as little as 2 to 3 weeks. If they could, there are many wthat would give none at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPCFTW Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 The ugly right wing side believes in the old traditional methods... Keep the worker at work, keep them fearful of losing their job, pay them as low as possible. More progressive methods have been proven to improve quality of work. Anyone who has studied modern business practices would know this. The problem with those "progressive" minds is that they think that anything that increases productivity is good economically. Pay me $100/hr with 50 weeks vacation and I can guarantee you that for the 2 weeks I work I will be at least 3 times as productive as I currently am. That doesn't mean it makes any kind of economic sense for the business or society to promote those kind of benefits. To compete in a globalized economy, people will have to start working MORE, not less. That is the only way we can avoid going the way of Greece, Italy, Ireland, Portugal, Spain, and probably France/US in the near future. The days of relaxing off of the slavery of the 3rd world are gone. Sorry "progressives", no more slave labour generated benefits for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saipan Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Oh yes, it's the fault of the union. A lot of employers give 2 or 3 weeks because they can give as little as 2 to 3 weeks. If they could, there are many wthat would give none at all. There's a solution. Become an employer and keep giving till it hurts. Why stay behind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPCFTW Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Question for the self proclaimed "progressives" in here: who pays for these "progressive" benefits? Well the government does of course! But how does the government pay for our "progress"? By borrowing money of course! And who lends them that money? Well China is by far the greatest creditor nation in the world. How did they get all that money? By enslaving billions of impoverished chinese who are lucky enough to get 1 vacation day. What a progressive world you guys have created! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIEN Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 There's a solution. Become an employer and keep giving till it hurts. Why stay behind The solution is decent wages and decent working conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIEN Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Question for the self proclaimed "progressives" in here: who pays for these "progressive" benefits? Well the government does of course! But how does the government pay for our "progress"? By borrowing money of course! And who lends them that money? Well China is by far the greatest creditor nation in the world. How did they get all that money? By enslaving billions of impoverished chinese who are lucky enough to get 1 vacation day. What a progressive world you guys have created! Question for you. Will you voluntarily accept a reduction of your salary and working conditions out of concern for Chinese workers? In other words, do you actually believe that anyone will buy the cr*p you just wrote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPCFTW Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 (edited) Question for you. Will you voluntarily accept a reduction of your salary and working conditions out of concern for Chinese workers? In other words, do you actually believe that anyone will buy the cr*p you just wrote? Why would I? I work for a private company and my company would go out of business if they overcompensated their employees. Furthermore, a private company's creditors are far less likely to be foreign governments. Finally, I'm not even talking about a voluntary reduction in salary, so your point is irrelevant. My point was that people will need to work more to compete in a globalized economy, not take vacations and sick days paid for by a chinese government that generates its revenue through tyranny and oppression of workers far less fortunate than us. I will certainly continue to vote for any party which addresses this hypocrisy and is in favour of involuntarily decreasing benefits to those public servants who sustain their luxurious lifestyles through the oppression of foreign workers. You are free to vote for your 4th reich society, 40% of Canadians and I will continue to ensure that the parties who support your unbounded greed and hypocrisy remain powerless. Edited August 21, 2011 by CPCFTW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saipan Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 The solution is decent wages and decent working conditions. What wages do YOU pay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorn Posted August 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Canada should legislate more FREEDOM. If someone wants to work for $5/hr and no vacation who to dictate him he can't? The government, with minimum wage laws. I know you like the theory of each being willing to work for whatever the market will pay, but in practice this inevitably leads to a downward spiral of wages until most people, those not in jobs which have a scarcity of workers, are working for next to nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saipan Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 In other words, do you actually believe that anyone will buy the cr*p you just wrote? Did you ask "anyone" if they buy yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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