G20 police aggression

[g_bambino]

Sounds like petty excuses from someone who wants to pussyfoot around the issue at hand. The cops failed to do their job when it was required. Plain and simple.

I'd say it sounds like someone who's willing to admit he doesn't have all the information on which to make a well founded answer to your question, unlike some people who first make a conclusion and then believe their assumptions to be facts that support it.

[CitizenX]

So why did the cops just stand there when the hooligans were trashing the cop cars and the shops on that street? Why did the cops not do their job?

How else can the Fed's justify the nearly one billion spent on security. They needed a show for the media, so they sacrificed a few cop cars, and let a some windows be broke. I don't think you need to be wearing a tin foil hat to figure that out.

Just imagine if they spent all that money and nothing happened..shit would hit the fan.

Edited August 27, 2011 by CitizenX

[GostHacked]

I'd say it sounds like someone who's willing to admit he doesn't have all the information on which to make a well founded answer to your question, unlike some people who first make a conclusion and then believe their assumptions to be facts that support it.

I've got more information that I need to make a conclusion, and I stand by it. The cops failed to do their job when it was needed, and overreacted on the next day all over the city to show they were being effective. I've gone through this in other threads related to the G20 summit in which you have participated in and was totaly apologetic about the cops actions.

Question : Why did the cops stand by and do nothing while standing a couple hundred feet away doing nothing?

Don't give me any bull about a command center or whatever or they were not organized, you spend a billion dollars on security for the big wigs, but cannot prevent a couple cop cars from getting trashed? What a shame.

[g_bambino]

The cops failed to do their job when it was needed.

That is, of course, entirely your opinion.

[fix]

Edited August 27, 2011 by g_bambino

[GostHacked]

That is, of course, entirely your opinion.

Yes it is. Funny thing is, many agree with me, only select few such as yourself disagree. I don't care for fence sitters.

[g_bambino]

Funny thing is, many agree with me, only select few such as yourself disagree.

Putting aside the lack of numbers upon which you're basing your assertion, even if the majority jumped to a conclusion, that doesn't mean the majority is right. Popular opinion is not truth.

[c/e]

Edited August 27, 2011 by g_bambino

[CitizenX]

Putting aside the lack of numbers upon which you're basing your assertion, even if the majority jumped to a conclusion, that doesn't mean the majority is right. Popular opinion is not truth.

[c/e]

I'm with you GostHacked. If A picture is worth a thousand words, and many words are video's worth? Popular opinion is not truth? Seeing with your own two eyes is.

[g_bambino]

Seeing with your own two eyes is.

Seems like you're just seeing whatever you want to.

[Argus]

That is, of course, entirely your opinion.

[fix]

And mine, and the courts, and a whole lot of other people. What was it the court said, the only people commiting acts of violence were the police?

[CitizenX]

I would like to see some justice. A lot of cops broke the law. If they don't follow the law, and the legal system doesn't apply to them what kind of justice do we have in Canada? :angry:

[g_bambino]

I would like to see some justice. A lot of cops broke the law.

Those who broke laws should face justice; no doubt about it. That some police have been charged with committing criminal acts, and even if there are indeed more who should, doesn't, however, mean "the police" - as in the entire collection of forces - didn't "do their job".

And, to get back to where I started: is it not the job of the police to clear unorganised, impromptu crowds (as opposed to pre-arranged marches on designated routes) off of pubic streets?

[+]

Edited August 28, 2011 by g_bambino

[CitizenX]

Those who broke laws should face justice; no doubt about it. That some police have been charged with committing criminal acts, and even if there are indeed more who should, doesn't, however, mean "the police" - as in the entire collection of forces - didn't "do their job".

If a member of the police force witnessed another police member break the law and did nothing, he is just as guilty.They are put in a position to protect the public not each other. With all the laws that were broken I just don't see how in one way or another how the vast majority of police aren't guilty.

The sad thing of it is, they did do their job. they followed the RCMP orders as per Harper's directions. They acted like political thugs.

Edited August 28, 2011 by CitizenX

[g_bambino]

With all the laws that were broken I just don't see how in one way or another how the vast majority of police aren't guilty.

There were somewhere around 10,000 police engaged in the G20 security. Can you list all the laws the majority of them broke? (Assuming you actually know these laws were broken.)

they followed the RCMP orders as per Harper's directions.

Good grief. Security was a provincial affair; remember the "secret law" "passed" by the Ontario Crown-in-Council? It was Toronto Police chief Bill Blair in charge that weekend. Constitutionally, the federal government has no jurisdiction over provincial policing.

[c/e]

Edited August 28, 2011 by g_bambino

[Tilter]

So why were the looters not detained when the looting took place? Why did they let it happen then crack heads the next day. Think about it.

Was that a necessary time to do it? with all the media of the assholes rioting, looting and vandalizing and all the film of the acts there will still be arrests made of the idiots that were part of that insanity

[CitizenX]

There were somewhere around 10,000 police engaged in the G20 security. Can you list all the laws the majority of them broke? (Assuming you actually know these laws were broken.)

Sure, some of them.

1. Unlawful search and seizure
   
2. Assault
   
3. Unlawful arrests. The Charter of Rights and Freedoms was infringed upon for those that were arrested. Police need warrrants and reasonable doubt to search and detain you.
   
4. From what I heard about the holding cells, torture might apply.
   

I realize it's not against the law to lie to the public but there was whole lot of that going on.

This is not the way you treat citizens in Canada or Toronto. We have laws that police must follow and this was not done. The police should be charged, and the police chief should resign for his decision to suspend the very law he pledged to uphold.

“Do as I say and not as I do” does not cut it in a civilized society. Toronto is not a police state. Huge mistakes were committed. Laws were not communicated to the public. The police cannot terrorize Toronto citizens in the name of keeping order in the city of Toronto.

P.S. 10,000 police engaged in the G20 security against maybe 200 anarchists, and they could not contain them...What a joke.

Edited August 28, 2011 by CitizenX

[g_bambino]

Sure, some of them.

I asked for all of them. You should at least be able to do that before asserting that the majority of 10,000 police officers broke them.

[CitizenX]

I asked for all of them. You should at least be able to do that before asserting that the majority of 10,000 police officers broke them.

All that is needed is for anyone of these officers to see a law being broken by another officer, and do nothing about it....boom guilty.

Edited August 28, 2011 by CitizenX

[g_bambino]

All that is needed is for anyone of these officers to see a law being broken and do nothing about it....boom guilty.

Perhaps. But that has nothing to do with your original accusation that the majority of 10,000 officers broke the law. I suspect you pulled that claim out of a particular orifice on your body.

[sp]

Edited August 28, 2011 by g_bambino

[CitizenX]

Perhaps. But that has nothing to do with your original accusation that the majority of 10,000 officers broke the law. I suspect you pulled that claim out of a particular orifice on your body.

[sp]

edumacational guesstation on my part. Guilty as 'not' charged.

[g_bambino]

edumacational guesstation on my part. Guilty as 'not' charged.

Well, okay, fair enough that you admit it.

The whole weekend was a complex, multi-layered and interconnected affair with a "cast" of tens of thousands. Of course it's perfectly reasonable to accept that there would be delinquents in there, amongst police and protesters and opportunists alike. However, I still believe that justice - which is what you rightly want for law-breakers, including officers of the law themselves - still holds that people are innocent until proven guilty.

[GostHacked]

Well, okay, fair enough that you admit it.

The whole weekend was a complex, multi-layered and interconnected affair with a "cast" of tens of thousands. Of course it's perfectly reasonable to accept that there would be delinquents in there, amongst police and protesters and opportunists alike. However, I still believe that justice - which is what you rightly want for law-breakers, including officers of the law themselves - still holds that people are innocent until proven guilty.

Bull, detainment without charge and held indefinately is not 'innocent until proven guilty'. More like the othe way around.

Also.....

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1038347--aggression-during-g20-rally-perpetrated-by-police-judge-rules

I know you wanted to wait for an official report of some kind ... here it is ..

A Toronto judge has ruled that “adrenalized” police officers acted as aggressors at a peaceful political rally that led to dozens of arrests during last year’s G20 summit.

“The only organized or collective physical aggression at that location that evening was perpetrated by police each time they advanced on demonstrators,” Justice Melvyn Green ruled on Thursday. He was referring to a demonstration at Queen St. and Spadina Ave. on Saturday, June 26, 2010.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu43uji-RCY

Keep sitting on that fence g_bambino.

[g_bambino]

detainment without charge and held indefinately is not 'innocent until proven guilty'. More like the othe way around.

How predictable. You're assuming the police met out justice. They don't. That's the job of the courts.

[Argus]

Those who broke laws should face justice; no doubt about it. That some police have been charged with committing criminal acts, and even if there are indeed more who should, doesn't, however, mean "the police" - as in the entire collection of forces - didn't "do their job".

And, to get back to where I started: is it not the job of the police to clear unorganised, impromptu crowds (as opposed to pre-arranged marches on designated routes) off of pubic streets?

[+]

It's certainly their job to break up crowds of yobos smashing windows and setting fire to things. And they failed miserably.

[g_bambino]

It's certainly their job to break up crowds of yobos smashing windows and setting fire to things. And they failed miserably.

Maybe. But it was also their job to protect the secure area where the summit was taking place, which they did perfectly.

[Argus]

Was that a necessary time to do it? with all the media of the assholes rioting, looting and vandalizing and all the film of the acts there will still be arrests made of the idiots that were part of that insanity

There was no rioting. There was a brief period, something like an hour, I believe, where a bunch of punks walked along streets smashing windows and spray painting walls. A couple of people set fire to some police cars left alone in the middle of an intersection. Calling it a riot is an exaggeration. How many people were beaten? How many hospitalized? As far as I'm aware - none.

Then, hours later, even the next day, we had the police response, against no one in particular, attacking people all over the streets, dragging cripples off to cages, rousting people in beds and arresting them because, well, maybe some of them were involved, or planned to be involved, or maybe thought about it. If you go by the rule "kill em all and let God sort it out" as applied to policing then I suppose that's your kind of police work. It's likely there were at least a few potential rioters among the hundreds of law-abiding citizens they beat and caged over the following hours.