Boges Posted August 2, 2011 Report Posted August 2, 2011 Let me just post something said by a conservative on this form that shows what I am saying. "The CPC couldn't give a flying bleep about Quebec anymore. with Ontario and Western Canada in their pocket they don't have to pander to Quebec anymore like every other Federalist leader since Pearson has had to do. I get it. You guys hate French people and hope they leave the country. It is really to bad they voted for a federalist party because now you will turn that Federalist party into a Separatist party even it kills the country. You need a boogy man because with out one how will you get votes and donations. I don't think they need to do that at all. They can just ignore the province's petty demands. Quebec gets so much more money from the Fed than any other province, the Fed needs to stop bribing Quebec! I actually hope the NDP does well. Because a strong NDP means a weak Liberal party and the NDP aren't taking that support away from the CPC. If anything there are many Liberals in Ontario that would much rather vote CPC than NDP. But it's not like the NDP found a ton of new Liberal or CPC voters in the past election. They got all their support from the Bloc! Quote
punked Posted August 2, 2011 Report Posted August 2, 2011 Care to point out where SHE says she doesn't support her party's goal for separation? It is in the title of the editorial I am glad you dug into the article to see that she was saying that she supported the bloc at the time because she knew there was no chance of separation though. Here is that title of the article written by Mrs. Turmel in 2006. "PSAC endorses Bloc’s progressive policies, not its goal of separatism" You can read more here. BTW this is the 5th time I have posted the endorsement because the Conservatives of this form are to lazy or dumb to read. http://wp.psacbc.com/2006/03/06/psac-endorses-blocs-progressive-policies-not-its-goal-of-separatism/ Quote
punked Posted August 2, 2011 Report Posted August 2, 2011 I don't think they need to do that at all. They can just ignore the province's petty demands. Quebec gets so much more money from the Fed than any other province, the Fed needs to stop bribing Quebec! I actually hope the NDP does well. Because a strong NDP means a weak Liberal party and the NDP aren't taking that support away from the CPC. If anything there are many Liberals in Ontario that would much rather vote CPC than NDP. But it's not like the NDP found a ton of new Liberal or CPC voters in the past election. They got all their support from the Bloc! Great that is fine then stop tearing the party apart over fake issues. Find a real one. Quote
Scotty Posted August 2, 2011 Report Posted August 2, 2011 She wrote a whole editorial in 2006 saying she didn't support separatism. You can read it, it is in this thread. Give it a try. That's not actually true. What she did was, as head of PSAC, sign a statement on behalf of PSAC, that said that PSAC doesn't support separatism. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
M.Dancer Posted August 2, 2011 Report Posted August 2, 2011 It is in the title of the editorial I am glad you dug into the article to see that she was saying that she supported the bloc at the time because she knew there was no chance of separation though. It says PSAC...not The Leader of PSAC, who is a member of the Bloc.... and the link you posted...is the link I C/Ped from...speaking of lazy... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Boges Posted August 2, 2011 Report Posted August 2, 2011 (edited) Great that is fine then stop tearing the party apart over fake issues. Find a real one. I'm just saying the optics are bad with this selection. I don't think she'll be the leader in 4 years anyway though. If she is, don't you think the Bloc and Liberals wouldn't slam the NDP for her past? Edited August 2, 2011 by Boges Quote
Scotty Posted August 2, 2011 Report Posted August 2, 2011 (edited) I get it you say that anyone who ever voted Bloc or belong to the party can never be anything else and Quebec which has has had over 50% of the people vote for the Bloc at one time should just separate She didn't vote for the Bloc. She joined the party. Quite a different thing. And while 25% of BQ members might be federalist, I don't know, that still means 75% are separatists. What information do we have she's not among the latter group as opposed to the former? People seem to think I'm this big Tory supporter. But I've never joined the party. I never joined the Alliance. I never joined Reform. I've never felt that enthusiastic about a political party. Apparently, she was quite enthusiastic about the BQ... Edited August 2, 2011 by Scotty Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Boges Posted August 2, 2011 Report Posted August 2, 2011 She didn't vote for the Bloc. She joined the party. Quite a different thing. And while 25% of BQ members might be federalist, I don't know, that still means 75% are separatists. What information do we have she's not among the latter group as opposed to the former? People seem to think I'm this big Tory supporter. But I've never joined the party. I never joined the Alliance. I never joined Reform. I've never felt that enthusiastic about a political party. Apparently, she was quite enthusiastic about the BQ... Apparently she did it cuz a friend put her up to it. Quote
punked Posted August 2, 2011 Report Posted August 2, 2011 Apparently she did it cuz a friend put her up to it. Have you ever been in a nomination race? You sign up as many people who support as you can to get a nomination. That is true of all parties many many members could care less about the party if they support the candidate. Quote
punked Posted August 2, 2011 Report Posted August 2, 2011 She didn't vote for the Bloc. She joined the party. Quite a different thing. Still don't see your point here. Quote
punked Posted August 2, 2011 Report Posted August 2, 2011 (edited) It says PSAC...not The Leader of PSAC, who is a member of the Bloc.... and the link you posted...is the link I C/Ped from...speaking of lazy... Her name is signed to it, she wrote it, that is her endorsement. Again to lazy or stupid to read? Edited August 2, 2011 by punked Quote
M.Dancer Posted August 2, 2011 Report Posted August 2, 2011 Her name is signed to it, she wrote it, that is her endorsement. Again to lazy or stupid to read? PSAC endorses Bloc’s progressive policies, not its goal of separatism She is speaking for PSAC...not for herself. Her own beliefs were made evident by her donations to the party and her membership and support of separatist candidates. You are either too stupid to know the truth, or too dishonest to admit it...the 3rd option is you are both, which is common amongst the NPD... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
M.Dancer Posted August 2, 2011 Report Posted August 2, 2011 Still, Bloc MP Louis Plamondon said he doesn’t buy Ms. Turmel’s assertion that she was always a federalist, even while she was a member of the Bloc.“When you back a party, you back its program,” Mr. Plamondon said. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ndp-credibility-under-attack-after-turmels-bloc-ties-revealed/article2117111/ Perhaps the new Chef of the NPD doesn't back all of the NPD's programs either? Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Scotty Posted August 2, 2011 Report Posted August 2, 2011 Still don't see your point here. Would you fail to see my point if it was a Tory leader who had joined the Heritage Front and just quit last year? Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
punked Posted August 2, 2011 Report Posted August 2, 2011 She is speaking for PSAC...not for herself. Her own beliefs were made evident by her donations to the party and her membership and support of separatist candidates. You are either too stupid to know the truth, or too dishonest to admit it...the 3rd option is you are both, which is common amongst the NPD... Got it. The MEMBER AND LEADER of the largest union in Canada does not believe the things she says as the leader of the union which she is a MEMBER of because she has another membership somewhere else. Do you not see how that is the dumbest reasoning you have ever used. She is the member of a group thus must believe everything that group stands for. Is your argument while you ignore that she is not only a MEMBER of another group but also leads it and that groups says then don't stand for what you claim the other group does. Here let me use your own stupid argument. "She is a Memeber of PSAC and that group says they support federalism because she is a member of that group she must be a federalist." BTW I am ignoring the point that she penned that editorial which says her and her group do not support separatism and signed it. While you have nothing NOT ONE STATEMENT where she supports separatism. I get it. You hate French Canada and thus everyone who speaks French must be a separatist. There are plenty of past Bloc supports who are now Federalist. Please stop pushing them away and welcome to an united Canada, this is what the NDP, Conservatives, and Liberals have fought for so long. You are letting hate cloud your vision. Quote
punked Posted August 2, 2011 Report Posted August 2, 2011 (edited) Would you fail to see my point if it was a Tory leader who had joined the Heritage Front and just quit last year? The Tory leader is a former Liberal, and the Liberal leader is a former NDPer. Yet I don't think either of them support their former parties. I have never claimed they have. That has been my point this whole time yet people don't get it because of their hate for French Canada. No wonder the Bloc held on for so long there was no Federalist who wanted to actually support a united Canada. Edited August 2, 2011 by punked Quote
Boges Posted August 2, 2011 Report Posted August 2, 2011 The Tory leader is a former Liberal, and the Liberal leader is a former NDPer. Yet I don't think either of them support their former parties. I have never claimed they have. That has been my point this whole time yet people don't get it because of their hate for French Canada. No wonder the Bloc held on for so long there was no Federalist who wanted to actually support a united Canada. Stephen Harper used to be a Liberal? since when? The Liberal Jean Charest used to be a Federal PC Tory. But that party, at the time, was rather irrelevant. Quote
punked Posted August 2, 2011 Report Posted August 2, 2011 Stephen Harper used to be a Liberal? since when? The Liberal Jean Charest used to be a Federal PC Tory. But that party, at the time, was rather irrelevant. I know hard to believe eh? But yep at one time Harper was a member of the young Liberals. Those were in his Toronto days. Quote
Boges Posted August 2, 2011 Report Posted August 2, 2011 I know hard to believe eh? But yep at one time Harper was a member of the young Liberals. Those were in his Toronto days. OK I'll take your word for it. Still he was a founding member of the Reform Party and helped build the current CPC. It's not like he was a Liberal a few months before he ran for the CPC. Quote
M.Dancer Posted August 2, 2011 Report Posted August 2, 2011 Got it. The MEMBER AND LEADER of the largest union in Canada does not believe the things she says as the leader of the union which she is a MEMBER of because she has another membership somewhere else. You seem to be implying that when the leader of PSAC speaks on the behalf of PSAC, that in fact she is speaking on behalf of herself...for herself, she joined the BQ She is the member of a group thus must believe everything that group stands for. That is a reasonable assumption. You're unreasonable assumption is she joined a group she does not believe in. That would make either her stupid, you stupid or the both of you. While you have nothing NOT ONE STATEMENT where she supports separatism. Aside from being a card carryin g member of a separatist party, benefactor and supporter of separatists? I get it. You hate French Canada and thus everyone who speaks French must be a separatist. There are plenty of past Bloc supports who are now Federalist. Please stop pushing them away and welcome to an united Canada, this is what the NDP, Conservatives, and Liberals have fought for so long. You are letting hate cloud your vision. Can I assume once you get you talking points in your email, you will lose the patent stupidity of the above claims... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
punked Posted August 2, 2011 Report Posted August 2, 2011 You seem to be implying that when the leader of PSAC speaks on the behalf of PSAC, that in fact she is speaking on behalf of herself...for herself, she joined the BQ No I am pointing you that she joined PSAC which supports Federalism long before she joined the Bloc. Made a point to say she doesn't support separatism and had a much larger role in PSAC as a member and leader then she ever did in the Bloc. Remember PSAC is the organization which supports Federalism. That is a reasonable assumption. You're unreasonable assumption is she joined a group she does not believe in. That would make either her stupid, you stupid or the both of you. No I am saying that is stupid argument that doesn't work because she was a member of one group supporting federalism and another supporting separatism at the same time. I was pointing out your logical fallacy I see it went over your head. Aside from being a card carryin g member of a separatist party, benefactor and supporter of separatists? Not a statement I am a Card carrying member of the NDP and there are plenty of policies I don't support. That is true of every member of every party. Can I assume once you get you talking points in your email, you will lose the patent stupidity of the above claims... I don't get talking points. However it is quite obvious to me that you are sad the Bloc is gone and instead of accepting that and talking about real issues you have decided to try and bring them back. If not you would move on from this whole thing and talk about real issues you have with the NDP besides "there leader once carried a different card". So did the Liberals and Conservatives yet no real issue. Quote
punked Posted August 2, 2011 Report Posted August 2, 2011 (edited) OK I'll take your word for it. Still he was a founding member of the Reform Party and helped build the current CPC. It's not like he was a Liberal a few months before he ran for the CPC. But he was a Liberal and yet people gave him a chance to prove himself as a Conservative. Why not afford Mrs. Turmel the same respect? I would also point out here that the author of the clarity act was not only once a PQ member but also an admit Separatist. Yet I saw no one in 2008 telling me all about how he was a Separatist. Yet here we have someone who was always a Federalist as proven by her writings, who people want to be a Separatist so badly. Get over it move on. Edited August 2, 2011 by punked Quote
Boges Posted August 2, 2011 Report Posted August 2, 2011 (edited) But he was a Liberal and yet people gave him a chance to prove himself as a Conservative. Why not afford Mrs. Turmel the same respect? I would also point out here that the author of the clarity act was not only once a PQ member but also an admit Separatist. Yet I saw no one in 2008 telling me all about how he was a Separatist. Yet here we have someone who was always a Federalist as proven by her writings, who people want to be a Separatist so badly. Get over it move on. She has four years to do that I suppose. Assuming Jack doesn't come back and assuming she can run for the leadership. I know the Liberals have a rule that interim leaders can't run for leadership. Not sure if that's the same for the NDP. Again I've never said she's a separtist. All I'm saying is the optics are bad when you consider she was a member of the Bloc a few months before she became an NDPer before the election was called. I, like many people, question how solid the NDP support in Quebec is, when you consider many Bloc voters just switched their support mid-campaign. Edited August 2, 2011 by Boges Quote
cybercoma Posted August 2, 2011 Report Posted August 2, 2011 I don't think they need to do that at all. They can just ignore the province's petty demands. Quebec gets so much more money from the Fed than any other province, the Fed needs to stop bribing Quebec!Tell me, Boges. How much more does someone in Alberta pay to the federal government in income taxes than someone in Quebec? Quote
jbg Posted August 2, 2011 Report Posted August 2, 2011 The exact same reason Bob Rae would never have success in Ontario because he used to leader the provincial NDP. There is no such thing as a provincial NDP. The NDP unlike the other parties is one party, Federal and provincial. The provincial Liberal parties, by contrast, have no affiliation with the LPOC and the CPC has no affiliation with the various provincial Progressive Conservative parties such as the ones in Alberta, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, New Brunswick, Newfoundland or Nova Scotia, or the Saskatchewan Party a/k/a Saskatories. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.