Goodbye Ralph Klein?

[Cartman]

I hate to indulge in gossip and rumour (really) , but has anyone else heard about suspicions that Ralph Klein is...well...enduring some sort of serious mental disorder? It has been said that is why he has lost support within the party (even losing an MLA), made ill-timed policy announcements (health care) and why they want a quick election here in the fall before the public is wise to the issue.

[maplesyrup]

Did John Reynolds start this rumour?

[Cartman]

Actually a political science prof. told me this just today. He heard it from PC workers in Edmonton.

[Cartman]

While I am gossiping, I might as well show you evidence that Dick Cheney is a robot.

http://newjersey.indymedia.org/newswire/di...splay_any/12697

[maplesyrup]

Who would be advantaged by such a rumour?

Sounds like a cool rumour for the Alberta Alliance party.

[Cartman]

Yeah...you may be right. On the other hand, why did he make those stupid comments about Chile?

[Reverend Blair]

Because Hank Kissinger is a robot too, and they are deeply in love? Not your average love, but a manly kind of love based on physicality as well as a deep understanding of each other's dark and twisted souls.

[caesar]

There could be a problem there; He seems to be giving out mixed message regarding Health Care in Alberta. Seems to be having problems with decisiveness. He has been in office quite a few years and obviously has done well for Alberta.I hope he is not having problems. Harper may be looking for a change of jobs (shudder) he may want to take on the job as Premier.

[playfullfellow]

I am an ardent ralph supporter here in Alberta and also wondered a little of late what he is up to? He has done a good job for Alberta and is one tough cookie. He is not a speratist which I like but would like to see more autonomy for Alberta which is not necessarily bad. Healthcare is his pet peeve. He can see the whole system is rotten to the core but how do you fix it? He knows throwing more money at it is a bandaid fix and not long term. I think ralph is stressed and has no way to relieve that stress anymore. He had to give up drinking and smoking for the job.

With the healthcare announcement during the elections, this is just a guess, I think he was testing the waters to see who might be a supporter and who is against him.

No matter what, if an election is called and he wins, it will be his last term. I think the guy is tired and has had enough.

[takeanumber]

He's now officially, worse than Chretien ever was.

Makes me wonder about the waste going on. He's already been caught giving millionaires BSE aid money.

Of course, the media never looks for corruption or waste. They're too busy rimming King Ralph.

[idealisttotheend]

In all seriousness and honesty I wondered if he has an early onset of something like Alzheimer's last time I saw him on TV (the June 30 newsconference). He looked very unfocused, uncomftorable and not his confident self. He's been quite erratic lately too. He started almost screaming in a commitee who questioned his travel expenses and the HC comment had no purpose.

I wouldn't be suprised if someone else leads the PCs into the next Alberta election and we might all realize that it was never Klien that was all that far off to the right at all but other elements of his party.

[August1991]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Ralph Klein mayor of Calgary before? And wasn't he a few french fries short of a Happy Meal then? What's new?

[idealisttotheend]

It's just they way he looks, he's dishelved, looks hagard, eyes are shifting he is more aggressive. IMO it is more than the usual foot in the mouth disease he is prone too (his style has always been to just talk off the cuff which works for him but gets him in trouble sometimes, he can be too honest for his own good).

Could be he's either on or off the sauce too and that's screwing with him too. His health I expect is not the best.

But then I am no psychiatrist, maybe Cartman can lean on his sources for more information. It would be a MapleLeafWeb exclusive.

[playfullfellow]

He's now officially, worse than Chretien ever was

Give me a break, Ralph has his problems but the guy brought Alberta out of the crapper. He has said some stupid things over the years but deep down inside, a lot of things he has said make sense. At least the guy is willing to take on the status quo and try to do something about all this beaurocratic bs we have seen to date. When he was mayor of Calgary, they could boast it was one of the first Olympics that made a huge profit. People liked Ralph because he came down to the street level and talked to the real working class people.

I have known Shirley McClellan, our deputy premier for many years and she has nothing but respect for Ralph. Shirley is one tough cookie and you can't push her around very easily either. She is a farm wife who has seen many neighbours directly affected by the whole BSE crisis, she fights for the family farm. She still has to live in her small community of NewBrigden.

[takeanumber]

Give me a break, Ralph has his problems but the guy brought Alberta out of the crapper.

No. The price of oil pulled Alberta out of the crapper, in SPITE of Klein's incompetance.

He has said some stupid things over the years but deep down inside, a lot of things he has said make sense.

I guess you'd agree with his bullying of an opposition MP.

At least the guy is willing to take on the status quo and try to do something about all this beaurocratic bs we have seen to date.

Alberta is a corporatist province. The public service is as much of the PC party as the party itself.

When he was mayor of Calgary, they could boast it was one of the first Olympics that made a huge profit.

I think the millions of volunteer hours had more to do with that than Klein did.

People liked Ralph because he came down to the street level and talked to the real working class people.

I have known Shirley McClellan, our deputy premier for many years and she has nothing but respect for Ralph. Shirley is one tough cookie and you can't push her around very easily either. She is a farm wife who has seen many neighbours directly affected by the whole BSE crisis, she fights for the family farm. She still has to live in her small community of NewBrigden.

He's lost touch, just as Chretien had and as Martin has.

[playfullfellow]

No. The price of oil pulled Alberta out of the crapper, in SPITE of Klein's incompetance.

I have to disagree with this statement. When the price of oil increased, Klein didn't do what others would have, increased spending. Klein kept spending in check until things turned around. Do you really think the provincial Libs or NDP would have this?

I think the millions of volunteer hours had more to do with that than Klein did.

Klein was also there the whole time. He helped make the decisions where and what the money was spent on. He didn't just sit in his office spewing out orders, he was at the job sites helping every step of the way. How do I know? I was there too.

I guess you'd agree with his bullying of an opposition MP.

Don't all politicians try to bully the opposition?

He's lost touch, just as Chretien had and as Martin has.

This statement I can't really argue with you about because it is pretty well true. However, I still feel he is trying to do the right thing.

[takeanumber]

I have to disagree with this statement. When the price of oil increased, Klein didn't do what others would have, increased spending. Klein kept spending in check until things turned around. Do you really think the provincial Libs or NDP would have this?

He HAS increased spending.

Get your facts straight.

Klein was also there the whole time. He helped make the decisions where and what the money was spent on. He didn't just sit in his office spewing out orders, he was at the job sites helping every step of the way. How do I know? I was there too

Doesn't mean Klein can take full credit.

He can take 1/10000th of the credit. I'd give him that much.

A far from cry from somebody giving him all the credit, as was done in this thread.

Don't all politicians try to bully the opposition?

Again, you didn't actually see what he did during that committee. If a Liberal in Ottawa had have done that, you'd be freaking.

In Alberta, there was a mild fuss. The media tried to play it down, as usual.

This crossed the line from posturing, to actual bullying.

This statement I can't really argue with you about because it is pretty well true. However, I still feel he is trying to do the right thing.

Good.

I think he's putting ideology ahead of what the people of Alberta want.

We don't want furthur deregulation of the power industry.

But we're getting it.

We don't want furthur gouging by the insurance industry.

But we're getting gouged, in spite of record profits.

We don't want BSE money going to millionaires and meat packers.

But they're doing it.

Then they defend that action.

Then they ignore the fact that the meat packers refused to cooperate with opening their books.

He's not trying to do the right thing anymore. He's trying to protect his friends, and he's trying to sell the province out to them.

It's almost like Ottawa around here.

[playfullfellow]

He HAS increased spending.

Yep, in the past few years he has increased spending but you seem to forget the furor he caused when he first took office. The cutbacks, the cutting in spending and number of government jobs he cut. He gave the whole system a butt kicking and got rid of a lot of dead wood. Yeah, he has increased spending of late but the province can afford it better now.

[takeanumber]

It's amazing: he cuts the deficit in the first 3 years, then jacks up spending from 11 Billion to 24 billion over 7 years.

And you only remember the deficit cutting.

Martin does the same thing (worse, without the benefit of booming oil), and he gets hanged for it, and gets NO CREDIT from the right.

The double standard is really quite impressive.

However: I'll just say this:

He could have paid off the debt last year, if not, they year before.

HE could have saved the taxpayer some 50 million (AT LEAST) in interest payments.

But noooooooooo.

We're going to wait for 2005, for the centennial.

So we're going to pay even more money, just because it's politically convinient.

So, yeh. I'm sick of the hypocracy of Ralphy poo.

Time to bring on the next set of Gettymandering Janus faced bastards.

[playfullfellow]

All interesting points you bring up takeanumber. You ever work on a farm? You ever study what the family farms bring into the local economy? How many jobs are directly affected by the family farm? Have you ever watched the sheriff remove items seized by the bank from farms gone under because of the idiot decisions of one dumbass in the Peace? I doubt it or you would have a little more compassion for these people. And you know, most of them are not standing around with their hands out. Not like a lot of pandering self righteous firms out east.

Lets look at the numbers in Alberta alone.

- There are over 31,000 farms with cattle on them in Alberta. Average family size is 4 (just a number for an example) we have over 120,000 people directly affected.

- We have over 5.3 million cattle in Alberta

- Alberta produces 2.4 million cattle per year.

- Alberta beef adds 3.8 billion per year directly to the economy.

Do you not think that we could expect a decent return on an investment on the cattle industry? As you have stated emphatically before, the oil will run out in Alberta, what then? Shouldn't we be investing in a viable industry that will help sustain Alberta in the future? Alberta has a huge agricultural industry and we need to safeguard it.

And you only remember the deficit cutting

reread my statement, I did say he has increased spending. Never denied that. Dont put words in my mouth!

[takeanumber]

Cry me a river when it comes to farmers, alright.

It's a double standard. The market doesn't apply to them because they always scream 'heritage' and 'we're food producers!'

The market will always respond. If that means we got to pay higher prices for food, then fine, so long as the innefficient system of keeping unprofitable farms, on unprofitable land, discontinues.

Farms should be allowed to fail.

So it IS a double standard.

The market should apply to everybody.

Second: you did say that spending was increased. You emphasized the deficit cutting. Most people forget the increase in spending. (Doubling the budget now.)

A fair amount of pork.

[caesar]

The Federal money provided to help those affected by BSE should have been for the family farmers. Instead it went to corporations; meat packing plants. The big boys who should be expected to be able to cover their own butts in case of a disaster in the industry walked away with all the loot. Very little went to the family farmer who generally just makes a basic living.

[takeanumber]

Most of the provincial money went to millionaires too.

And to hear our finance minister here in Alberta justify it is just sick.

But still. Some farmers made off with some aid.

Plus drought aid.

Plus subsidy aid.

Plus quota aid (in some cases)

Plus subsidized insurance.

Where does the aid stop?

Why doesn't the market apply?

ooooooooooooooh

I know what it is.

The gettymandered electoral map of Alberta (so named after Premier Getty, who gerrymandered the map), made the rural areas over represented (way overepresented).

So the market doesn't apply to rural areas, because the rural areas vote for the government in power.

It's all so much clearer to me now.

Again, bring on the next bunch of corrupt, gettymandering hypocrites.

Nothing ever changes in Alberta.

[playfullfellow]

Just so you know, the BSE compensation went to the "owners" of the cattle. Not just any tom dick and harry. A lot of farmers opted for a buy out proposed by some of the larger companies. In all actuality, this was 2 groups of people working together to get through some tough times. So, in your opinion, any company over a certain size should be left for the vultures to pick clean?

Buy outs of agricultural commodities from smaller operations by larger operations has been going on for years. It is a matter of survival of the smaller operations. A smaller operation will sell their commodities to a larger company if they have a tough year. Make their bank payments and keep their land and then try to start over again next year.

But you know, even some of the larger farms, the ones quoted as getting most of the payouts are in big trouble. It is a regular occurance to see several large trucks enter a farm and take all the livestock to the auction to be sold at pennies on the dollar at the orders of the bank. Most farmers accept this fact, they don't scream for more handouts, they just wonder if they will be able to keep their homes through all of this.

The amounts paid out to the farmers is paltry compared to the amounts paid to Air Canada and bombardier over the years.

[playfullfellow]

Nothing ever changes in Alberta.

There are several other provinces that you could move to that might be more to your liking.

So lets do things your way takeanumber. We let the market rule agriculture completely. No subsidies, no aid, nothing. Float or sink no matter what happens.

We have the current BSE crisis hit. Bang, all of our borders close to all beef. Prices plummet across the board. Not just beef prices but also pork and poultyr because they have to compete with the now lower beef prices. So, now you have 2 more sectors thrown into the fray. Now we are looking at the feeds market, they panic because farmers won't have enough money to pay their feed bills so they stop credit on any feed purchases to all except the largest customers. Cash and carry. The grain market is affected because the demand for feed grains had just dropped, surplus on the market. The killing plants are now faced with a huge surplus of of boxed beef that they have to store at great cost hence their profit margin starts to drop. Now we have 5 major sectors affected by one sick cow. Lenders now start seizing herds and dumping them at the auction at pennies on the dollar. The price of beef drops even more and now we are seeing the breeding herd hit the killing plants too, even more beef to get rid of, the prices drop again. Now we have the Americans enter the picture. They have just enjoyed 1 year of huge profits and see many more to come if they can keep the borders closed, they keep lobbying to keep the border closed and succeed. The price of beef goes even lower again. Banks and lenders are now seizing land from farmers and selling it to the highest bidder which usually are the larger corporate farms. The crisis continues on for about another two years or so before the surplus beef is gone from the freezers and the whole Canadian beef herd size has dropped by almost 1/2. Now, we have laws in this country that say a bank can not own a seized farm for more than a year so these farms have been dumped on the market and have been taken over by the top 5% largest companies from before the crisis and also large American companies. So, in the end, 5% of the companies will own almost half of the market. You better enjoy your nice cheap cuts of beef now because it isn't going to get any better.