punked Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 The sad thing is you guys actually believe this stuff. Yup they were just working at McDonalds and invested their $500 savings and got lucky by finding an investment advisor that generated a 100000% return and now they are multi-millionaires. Those damn lucky elite bastards trying to keep the rest of us down!! I don't believe anyone working at McDonalds who had 500 bucks to invest ever got rich. In order to get rich in the Market you usually are already rich what is happening is really the rich getting richer. Quote
CPCFTW Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 I don't believe anyone working at McDonalds who had 500 bucks to invest ever got rich. In order to get rich in the Market you usually are already rich what is happening is really the rich getting richer. And how did they get rich in the first place? Hard work or the hard work of their parents. Quote
RNG Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 Except I know two guys who worked at Rona, not quite minimum wage but darn close, who did save up, invest, compound their investments and are now set for a comfortable retirement. No vacations in Hawaii, no big SUV, no jet-ski, and doing good now. Quote The government can't give anything to anyone without having first taken it from someone else.
CPCFTW Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 Except I know two guys who worked at Rona, not quite minimum wage but darn close, who did save up, invest, compound their investments and are now set for a comfortable retirement. No vacations in Hawaii, no big SUV, no jet-ski, and doing good now. But how could they retire comfortably without a taxpayer guaranteed defined benefit pension plan? Only the elite executives who steal our money and eat kittens can retire comfortably without the intervention of governments and unions! Quote
Smallc Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 No vacations in Hawaii, no big SUV, no jet-ski, and doing good now. So...they didn't live their lives while they were young or middle aged. Well, I don't see any reason to that either. I plan to travel throughout my life, every year, as long as I can afford it. Quote
RNG Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 So...they didn't live their lives while they were young or middle aged. Well, I don't see any reason to that either. I plan to travel throughout my life, every year, as long as I can afford it. And then suck on the government teat when you retire? Typical. Quote The government can't give anything to anyone without having first taken it from someone else.
Smallc Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 And then suck on the government teat when you retire? Typical. What? First, I'll get the government pension no matter what, and second, I didn't say that I didn't plan to save any money. I plan to work for a very long time. That said, I'm not going to sacrifice my life for some kind of retirement dream. Quote
punked Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 And how did they get rich in the first place? Hard work or the hard work of their parents. Yep hard work of their parents indeed....or grandparents...or great grandparents....or great great great grandparents. Quote
CPCFTW Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 (edited) What? First, I'll get the government pension no matter what, and second, I didn't say that I didn't plan to save any money. I plan to work for a very long time. That said, I'm not going to sacrifice my life for some kind of retirement dream. Exactly. The government defined benefit pension is the government's teat. People in the private sector can't live it up while they're young and then just retire comfortably to a guaranteed pension. The problem with people these days is they want to spend $100 going out every weekend from the ages of 18-35, and go on a vacation every year, and then point their fingers at the people who took a break from partying to blame them for being poor. If you saved that $100 every weekend for 10 years from 25-35 at 5% interest, you would have about 67k saved up. You'd also have earned money through tax deductions assuming those investments were made into an RRSP. With re-investment of tax returns, realistically, you could have well over 100k saved up by the time you are 35 assuming you forego the weekend partying for 10 years. You could also have used all the time you saved passed out until 3pm on weekends to continue to educate yourself and earn a higher salary over that time period. Or to work an additional part time job. There are plenty of other ways people's consumption expenditures could be changed if they seriously wanted to be part of the wealthy. People blow their money partying and travelling their whole youth, and then when they are poor and can't retire and want the people who worked hard so they could have fun later in life to subsidize them partying their whole lives. If you work in the government, you are automatically granted the right to have the taxpayer subsidize your lavish lifelong partying lifestyle. It really is the story of the grasshopper and the ant. Except the ant has found a loophole: work in the government. Edited June 17, 2011 by CPCFTW Quote
CPCFTW Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 Yep hard work of their parents indeed....or grandparents...or great grandparents....or great great great grandparents. What's your point? If I want to work hard so that my bloodline can succeed in the future, it's not "unfair" to future generations that their great great great grandparents didn't work as hard as me. Quote
Smallc Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 I'm not sure how any of that applies to me. You're stereotyping. I don't drink, I don't smoke, and I've been to about 3 parties in my entire life. That said, I'm always going to go on my vacation and drive a nice car. I am in the private sector, I make over 60K per year, I have very little debt, and I save money every month. I'm still not going to put aside my life for some retirement pipe dream. Quote
CPCFTW Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 I'm not sure how any of that applies to me. You're stereotyping. I don't drink, I don't smoke, and I've been to about 3 parties in my entire life. That said, I'm always going to go on my vacation and drive a nice car. I am in the private sector, I make over 60K per year, I have very little debt, and I save money every month. I'm still not going to put aside my life for some retirement pipe dream. You just said you're going to make the government pension when you retire. I assumed you worked in the public sector and had a defined benefit pension plan guaranteed by the govt. I guess you meant CPP and OAS? As long as you save enough for retirement then there is nothing wrong with that. It is the people who live your lifestyle on a 20-40k income and then think they are entitled to retire comfortably on the taxpayer's dime that are the problem. Eg. customer service workers at Air Canada. Quote
punked Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 What's your point? If I want to work hard so that my bloodline can succeed in the future, it's not "unfair" to future generations that their great great great grandparents didn't work as hard as me. No wait it was their great great great great great great grandparents who worked harder they your great great great great great great grandparents which means you will never be as successful as them. Quote
Smallc Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 As long as you save enough for retirement then there is nothing wrong with that. It is the people who live your lifestyle on a 20-40k income and then think they are entitled to retire comfortably on the taxpayer's dime that are the problem. Eg. customer service workers at Air Canada. I agree with what you're saying. I think we were maybe just talking past each other. Yes, I was talking about CPP and OAS. They're supposed to be fully funded (at least CPP) for a very long time. If there is a time (like this year probably) that I make less money, then I won't got anywhere that year. If I can, I will. I'll save as much money as I can otherwise, but I want to travel, and if I can't ever do that, then it's not really worth it to me. Quote
CPCFTW Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 (edited) No wait it was their great great great great great great grandparents who worked harder they your great great great great great great grandparents which means you will never be as successful as them. That's not true. You just have to work harder than them. Their great great great great grandparents worked hard to earn that wealth for them, not for you or I. You're just a defeatist. And also jealous. Edited June 17, 2011 by CPCFTW Quote
RNG Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 No wait it was their great great great great great great grandparents who worked harder they your great great great great great great grandparents which means you will never be as successful as them. Check this out: http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&sa=X&ei=NMX6TevII4egsQPz69DeBQ&sqi=2&ved=0CBoQvwUoAQ&q=how+many+kids+who+inherited+wealth+are+rich&spell=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=4c67f4257b0d9ef8&biw=1067&bih=491 Quote The government can't give anything to anyone without having first taken it from someone else.
punked Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 Check this out: http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&sa=X&ei=NMX6TevII4egsQPz69DeBQ&sqi=2&ved=0CBoQvwUoAQ&q=how+many+kids+who+inherited+wealth+are+rich&spell=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=4c67f4257b0d9ef8&biw=1067&bih=491 you google searched rich kids to assure me of what? Quote
punked Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 That's not true. You just have to work harder than them. Their great great great great grandparents worked hard to earn that wealth for them, not for you or I. You're just a defeatist. And also jealous. I am neither a defeatist or jealous. I don't want to punish people for working hard I want to reward them, which is why I believe in a strong tax on inheritance if their kids want to be rich they need to compete in a free fair market economy not have it given to them. Yes yes enough to live and live comfortably but those kids should have to work as hard if not harder then you or I to get to the level their parents, grandparents, great grandparents did. I believe in Hard work and having those who work hard get a head, not the great great great great grand children of those who worked hard at one time. Quote
Smallc Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 Yes yes enough to live and live comfortably but those kids should have to work as hard if not harder then you or I to get to the level their parents, grandparents, great grandparents did. Why? It's their money. Quote
CPCFTW Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 (edited) I am neither a defeatist or jealous. I don't want to punish people for working hard I want to reward them, which is why I believe in a strong tax on inheritance if their kids want to be rich they need to compete in a free fair market economy not have it given to them. Yes yes enough to live and live comfortably but those kids should have to work as hard if not harder then you or I to get to the level their parents, grandparents, great grandparents did. I believe in Hard work and having those who work hard get a head, not the great great great great grand children of those who worked hard at one time. That just takes away choice from people's lives. You are basically telling people they have to spend their money and shouldn't save for their children's future. They have to spend all their money and trust a nanny state to provide for their children. Such a greedy and disgusting mentality. People should have the freedom to live for their children. It is arguably the reason for our existence. Death is inevitable, but the greatest insult is to take someone's legacy and redistribute it to others. Edited June 17, 2011 by CPCFTW Quote
punked Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 Why? It's their money. Earned in our society. I am not saying take it all away, and I am not saying it to punish them. I am saying that I am for hard work and those who work hard getting ahead, not those who don't do anything. So yes enough to live quite comfortably maybe a 50% inheritance tax however not enough to have them not have to compete with the rest of us. Quote
punked Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 That just takes away choice from people's lives. You are basically telling people they have to spend their money and shouldn't save for their children's future. They have to spend all their money and trust a nanny state to provide for their children. Such a greedy and disgusting mentality. People should have the freedom to live for their children. It is arguably the reason for our existence. Death is inevitable, but the greatest insult is to take someone's legacy and redistribute it to others. Nope didn't say that at all. In fact you put those words in my mouth because of your limited interpretation of what I said. You are trying to argue the point you want to argue instead of what I actually said. Which is fine but I wont play that game. If you want to address what I said maybe we can talk but I am not arguing people shouldn't be allowed to pass their money on to the kids. I am saying that money should not be able to be indefinitely passed on because that motives people not to work hard, and creates a poor competition environment. Quote
Smallc Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 Earned in our society. And taxes have already been paid on the money...more than once. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 (edited) .... I am saying that money should not be able to be indefinitely passed on because that motives people not to work hard, and creates a poor competition environment. That is certainly not the case....competition remains, if only at a different level. Capital is a very important ingredient to a modern economy. Fortunately, there are wealth management strategies that easily run circles around your ideas. Edited June 17, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
punked Posted June 17, 2011 Report Posted June 17, 2011 And taxes have already been paid on the money...more than once. Taxes have been paid on all money more then once what is your point? The same person did not pay taxes on that money. Again I keep hearing if you work hard you will be rich. So why can't the children, grand children, and great grand children, of the Rich work hard to stay rich? Why does that seem like a wrong idea. I still want them to start out a head, you can still work hard and give your kids a head start however I don't believe that money and that head start should be indefinite that is all. Again a tax would make sure we will continue to work hard and innovate. It fosters competition why does everyone hate that? Quote
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